NFL 2013 Week 2 Thread - Go back to college Chip Kelly!

[Jabronius Maximus]

I'll say this game ends up being very very ugly, with the Pats gutting out a 17-6 win. That will be a cue for the analysts to talk about how the Pats are this new tougher team with a good defense, while they all seemingly forget that they played the Jets.

[DanteGabriel]

That's not the only reason. There is also the CK effect. We picked Dalton one pick before CK. Can't have the 49ers getting another SB before the Bengals!

It'd be pretty funny if the Bengals managed to get to another Super Bowl and lose to the 49ers for a third time. ;)

[Rhom]

It'd be pretty funny if the Bengals managed to get to another Super Bowl and lose to the 49ers for a third time. ;)

I approve.

When I went to the Bengals v. Niners game in Cincy a couple years back, there was a longtime Bengals fan sitting in front of us and he said he went to that first Super Bowl game... and the tickets cost him $25 as a season ticket holder. :stunned: Its amazing to see how much the circus around the game has changed over the years in addition to the changes to the product on the field.

[DanteGabriel]

I approve.

When I went to the Bengals v. Niners game in Cincy a couple years back, there was a longtime Bengals fan sitting in front of us and he said he went to that first Super Bowl game... and the tickets cost him $25 as a season ticket holder. :stunned: Its amazing to see how much the circus around the game has changed over the years in addition to the changes to the product on the field.

I remember the factoid after John Taylor caught the go-ahead TD near the end of the second SF-Cincinnati game that Taylor had a job during the off-season: he sold cars for Reggie Jackson.

As for Pats-Jets -- I'm taking nothing for granted. The Jets probably have more talent at receiver right now and their defensive line is legit. We've learned that a good defensive line can make up for most deficiencies against the Pats.

[Independent George]

It'd be pretty funny if the Bengals managed to get to another Super Bowl and lose to the 49ers for a third time. ;)

I was so angry at Neil O'Donnell for this exact reason.

[MisterOJ]

So, a bit of a housekeeping question.

Is the fantasy football thread in forum games for all fantasy football talk, or just for (smack) talking about the leagues that are going with various members of the board?

I'm not involved in any board leagues, but I am in a couple with my RL friends. If I wanted to ask a question about a proposed trade, is that cool here - or should it be done in forum games?

[DanteGabriel]

So, a bit of a housekeeping question.

Is the fantasy football thread in forum games for all fantasy football talk, or just for (smack) talking about the leagues that are going with various members of the board?

I'm not involved in any board leagues, but I am in a couple with my RL friends. If I wanted to ask a question about a proposed trade, is that cool here - or should it be done in forum games?

Hrm, I'm interested in what people think about this too, because I don't want to talk too much in the NFL thread about my fantasy team, but I do want to talk about my fantasy team somewhere. But I don't go to Forum Games. Maybe a separate thread?

[Mexal]

So, a bit of a housekeeping question.

Is the fantasy football thread in forum games for all fantasy football talk, or just for (smack) talking about the leagues that are going with various members of the board?

I'm not involved in any board leagues, but I am in a couple with my RL friends. If I wanted to ask a question about a proposed trade, is that cool here - or should it be done in forum games?

Most of those kinds of questions tend to happen in the Fantasy Football thread in Forum Games. We've had people post questions here in the past and people have answered them but the majority tends to go in the FF thread.

I, personally, don't care either way.

[Jaime L]

So, a bit of a housekeeping question.

Is the fantasy football thread in forum games for all fantasy football talk, or just for (smack) talking about the leagues that are going with various members of the board?

I'm not involved in any board leagues, but I am in a couple with my RL friends. If I wanted to ask a question about a proposed trade, is that cool here - or should it be done in forum games?

There's a general Fantasy Football 2013 thread for anyone to ask questions/talk about their team/gripe etc though that doesn't stop us from occasionally infecting the NFL thread with FFL things we notice in the moment.

The board leagues almost all have their own individual threads so no worries on that front.

[Jaime L]

So I think I've figured out the fundamental disconnect between those who see brilliance in Chip Kelly's schemes as applied to the NFL and those who think it's flukish. I think it comes down to the difference of tactics vs. strategy and the difference in what the two camps are looking at is causing everyone to talk past one another.

I think tactically, as in the immediate/short term, it's unquestionably brilliant in terms of generating mismatches and constantly putting a defense on its heels and at a disadvantage. Strategically, however as in long term/big picture, there are still legitimate question marks centered on its sustainability in terms of maintaining the QB's health/how 28-30 year olds will hold up if they have to play 70% more plays over the course of a season etc.

Bill Barnwell, who I often think is a knob, gets it right here in diagramming why it's so difficult to stop. This was what I was watching on Monday Night with increased hopelessness, even 2-3 drives into it. I mean I am sure there are teams out there that will play it signfiicantly better than the Redskins did with their janky terrible tackling safeties and 38 year old MLB, but I think the core X's and O's of always having defenders in the right place to match up with everything they do and not be too tired to tackle some of the most elusive speed-talent in football is going to be a helluva time trying to stop this for as long as this machine can run at full gear. That said, I could also see a point, maybe 10 weeks into the season where the wheels start coming off due to attrition/fatigue whatever.

Chip Kelly could very well end up winning a bunch of individual battles and losing the war in the end. I don't know if that's likely, but it's definitely possible. Will be fascinating to watch as it goes on and either evolves or devolves.

But I will say I don't envy the Chargers who have the task of trying to stop this machine while its still intact here in week 2.

[Jace, Extat]

I remember the factoid after John Taylor caught the go-ahead TD near the end of the second SF-Cincinnati game that Taylor had a job during the off-season: he sold cars for Reggie Jackson.

As for Pats-Jets -- I'm taking nothing for granted. The Jets probably have more talent at receiver right now and their defensive line is legit. We've learned that a good defensive line can make up for most deficiencies against the Pats.

This is true, but the Jets' best player -Antonio Croamarti- is effectively removed from the game. There's no actual threat for him to line up against, and if Tom's smart he'll just completely avoid whatever WR is being covered by the Cro.

[Mexal]

I'm just curious how the Eagles defense is going to hold up when the offensive possessions are so quick. Play a decent offense not going through issues like the Skins and they might be ridiculous tired from getting limited rest. Should be interesting to see how that plays out down the road.

[Maithanet]

This is true, but the Jets' best player -Antonio Croamarti- is effectively removed from the game. There's no actual threat for him to line up against, and if Tom's smart he'll just completely avoid whatever WR is being covered by the Cro.

This is an awfully optimistic take. The Pats have no good wide receivers, so your top cornerback is completely wasted! Suckers!!

Even if BB game plans to avoid Cromarti, it is still problematic to have a third of the field shut off in the passing game. And if the Jets defensive front is able to get good push, how many receivers can the Patriots even afford to send out in routes? How easy will it be to blitz if all the DBs need to do is cover mediocre wideouts for a couple of seconds?

I think that the Patriots will win, because Brady is so much better than Smith, and the Patriots D looks improved. But if the defense doesn't show up, Tom Brady is not going to be enough.

[Rhom]

So I think I've figured out the fundamental disconnect between those who see brilliance in Chip Kelly's schemes as applied to the NFL and those who think it's flukish. I think it comes down to the difference of tactics vs. strategy and the difference in what the two camps are looking at is causing everyone to talk past one another.

I think tactically, as in the immediate/short term, it's unquestionably brilliant in terms of generating mismatches and constantly putting a defense on its heels and at a disadvantage. Strategically, however as in long term/big picture, there are still legitimate question marks centered on its sustainability in terms of maintaining the QB's health/how 28-30 year olds will hold up if they have to play 70% more plays over the course of a season etc.

Bill Barnwell, who I often think is a knob, gets it right here in diagramming why it's so difficult to stop. This was what I was watching on Monday Night with increased hopelessness, even 2-3 drives into it. I mean I am sure there are teams out there that will play it signfiicantly better than the Redskins did with their janky terrible tackling safeties and 38 year old MLB, but I think the core X's and O's of always having defenders in the right place to match up with everything they do and not be too tired to tackle some of the most elusive speed-talent in football is going to be a helluva time trying to stop this for as long as this machine can run at full gear. That said, I could also see a point, maybe 10 weeks into the season where the wheels start coming off due to attrition/fatigue whatever.

Chip Kelly could very well end up winning a bunch of individual battles and losing the war in the end. I don't know if that's likely, but it's definitely possible. Will be fascinating to watch as it goes on and either evolves or devolves.

But I will say I don't envy the Chargers who have the task of trying to stop this machine while its still intact here in week 2.

Heard something similar from Colin Cowherd (who is also a blowhard) who pointed out that a team like the Forty Niners is perfectly positioned to stop it. He pointed out that Harbaugh is familiar with it from his Stanford days and that what it really breaks down to is assignment football. Be responsible for your area and be disciplined enough to make the tackle.

Its interesting to see. It could really level the playing field. If you aren't having to make 20 pre-snap reads, it means that you don't have to have a Manning/Brady level mind to run the offense.

[fuseprime]

The Jets defense doesn't seem to have completely fallen apart, and the Pats offense is not looking too good right now, so it actually could be a pretty close game. Of course, the Pats defense is looking pretty good and the Jets offense really isn't, so I think the Pats will win fairly easily. I think the line of Pats -13 is absurdly high though, considering their injuries, and it should more like -10.5.

As for Wilkerson, he should absolutely be saying that; I'd only be angry if he didn't. Teams and players should always think and say that they'll win, and never have a defeatist attitude; leave that to the media and the fans.

I love the Jet defense. They looked dominant, except for Cro vs V-Jack. I think Cro will have a better game since he won't be up against a "good" receiver this week. However, time and again, you have to rattle Brady in order to win against the Pats. I think the Jets have the ability to do that, but man, Brady looked like a statue in the pockets against the Bills.

The Jet offense just needs to not turn the ball over in order to win. I think the D and Special Teams needs to score for the Jets to win.

All that being said: I pick the Patriots by 11.

[Kalbear]

e pointed out that Harbaugh is familiar with it from his Stanford days and that what it really breaks down to is assignment football. Be responsible for your area and be disciplined enough to make the tackle.

Harbaugh didn't stop the ducks for shit. It took Shaw to stop Oregon - and that happened once. The other Oregon games were 41, 52 and 51 points given up.

But yes, it comes down to assignments and playing fundamentally sound football. Oregon's losses have happened when they faced defenses that stuck to their assignments, won individual matchups and didn't do anything too tricky. If you can do that, you win. It sounds simple but it's hard; as stated, it's tough to make one on one tackles against players like Shady. It's tough to not want to lean towards tackling him and skip the running QB. Or cheat as a safety. IT's especially tough when you're sucking wind and after a 3rd down goes to 4th they get to the line in 8 seconds and run a play on 4th and 2.

I'm just curious how the Eagles defense is going to hold up when the offensive possessions are so quick. Play a decent offense not going through issues like the Skins and they might be ridiculous tired from getting limited rest. Should be interesting to see how that plays out down the road.

It'll be interesting but I think this is a bit overblown. The Eagles (just like the Ducks) practice at the same rate on both offense and defense. When Oregon has run into spread offense teams that go fast, they do occasionally get tired - but not exhausted like other teams seem to. And when the offense gives up the ball fast Oregon's D was one of the best in the nation in limiting damage (on turnovers and the like). The key is that the Eagles and Oregon prepared for this They prepare every day for this pace. Practices have snaps for 2 hours at about 12-13 seconds per snap. It's kind of like playing in Denver; for the first few weeks it sucks, and then it's normal.

[Jaime L]

Heard something similar from Colin Cowherd (who is also a blowhard) who pointed out that a team like the Forty Niners is perfectly positioned to stop it. He pointed out that Harbaugh is familiar with it from his Stanford days and that what it really breaks down to is assignment football. Be responsible for your area and be disciplined enough to make the tackle.

Its interesting to see. It could really level the playing field. If you aren't having to make 20 pre-snap reads, it means that you don't have to have a Manning/Brady level mind to run the offense.

Yeah I would agree the 49ers are most perfectly built to stop it. Great tackling front 7 and athletic as hell. Their only defensive weakness is secondary play and that offense isn't ideally set up to exploit that. Seahawks too could wreak some havoc with giant CBs and great safeties who can shed blocks.

And yeah, it does seem like a great leveler for all the teams who don't have a Manning or Brady which is almost everyone. The read-option based offenses we saw last year also were a big step in that direction and Kelly's offense looks like another leap past that.

[Fez]

People are saying positive things about the Jets; this is making me extremely wary.

[Rhom]

People are saying positive things about the Jets; this is making me extremely wary.

I don't get it. They got a fluke win over a mediocre at best Tampa team. Was there something there worth lauding?

[Fez]

I don't get it. They got a fluke win over a mediocre at best Tampa team. Was there something there worth lauding?

To be fair, it wasn't really a fluke. They had the game in the bag with 5 minutes to go, lost it, and got it back again. And the defense, the final drive not-with-standing, was quite good. Or at least looked quite good. But its probable that Tampa Bay is the worst team in the NFC this year, so that's not saying much.

Point is, they are playing the Patriots on road on 3 days rest. Its a much diminished on offense Pats team, but its the Pats, the team the Jets have gone 7-19 against since 2001. I think the Pats being favored by 13 is too much, but I still think they should be double digit favorites.

Also, anytime people talk up the Jets is exactly when they'll shit the bed. Its when no one gives them a chance that they'll surprise you; like that playoff win at the Pats in 2010.