The Walking Dead: Season 4 - No Comic Spoilers!

[Dr. Pepper]

I only read back about 4 pages, so please don't :whip: me if it's been said before, but Judith is infected right? She's going to be the next "big" loss among the group?

I'm kind of wondering that, too. She's the first person in the group never treated or immunized for any sort of illness so she already has a hugely compromised immune system in an environment filled with rotting flesh walking around and contaminating water and food supplies. I'm not sure if she's started solid foods yet, though they showed her able to sit up on her own so she probably has. Still, that puke on Beth's shoulder looked very gross and chunky for a six-month old whose solid food intake should only be pureed stuff. That puke made me imagine it was her intestines or something coming up. I do hope they keep Judith around because babies are always symbolic of a future. The bleaker would get bleaker if she zombified (though how awesome would it be to see the make-up work for a zombie baby?!) and this show is bleak enough already. I want some hope! Or at least for someone else to get preggers.

I know a lot of people get tired of the stupid moments of the show, but I kind of think it's pretty realistic in some respects. I mean, these are normal everyday people and most people aren't of superior intelligence. So of course, stupid shit's gonna happen because people are stupid. Those things just don't bother me when I watch this show. I just enjoy the show and figure they all do a crap load better than I ever would in a zombie filled world.

I agree. It's easy for us to sit at home talking about how we'd do it differently and it's also the big entertainment factor of zombie stuff. But it also reminds me of the car wreck I drove by on my way home. There I am, sitting in my car yelling at all of the rubber-neckers slowing down traffic and moaning at how stupid they all are for causing things to be worse than they should be and swearing to myself that I won't look. What do I do the moment I pass the wreck? Turn my head and look which further contributes to slowing traffic. I can think all I want that I'd do better when the zombies come out, but as smart as I am, I'll probably still be an idiot who rubbernecks even when knowing it's stupid and worsens the situation.

Plus, this show is good because the writers tend to make the inconsistencies moments of plot and character development.

I was hoping during season 1 that Carol would do a 180 and I think she has. I am loving her character and her interactions with Daryl. I think my favorite parts of this episode were Michonne and Judith and Rick putting his gun belt back on. I am wondering if Daryl is a carrier of the infection because he licked his fingers and shook Peter (?)'s hand. And if Judith has the infection then either Beth or Michonne have it now too.

I'm glad I'm not the only one really loving how Carol is working out. She's sort of like the middle ground I spoke about upthread. She maintains and cultivates connections with people while still maintaining a wary and alert attitude. In the first ep during storytime, you could practically see her rolling her eyes at the idea of reading stories to kids when it's blindingly obvious that education in this type of world has to be fundamentally different. Yet, she also recognizes that not everyone else has reached that point and does her best to shield the adults from that realization while training the kids who the adults are trying to shield. I really like it.

As a side note: the make-up is unbelievably awesome this season. I could watch this show just for that alone.

The make-up is really good. I love some gooey eyeballs and intestines flying around. I wish they would have had Patrick keep his glasses on when he went to the showers because a zombie with glasses would have had a lot of good make-up potential.

[Darth Visenya]

I had to keep telling myself "they really aren't killing the pigs, they really aren't killing the pigs." That was really rough. When it involves kids and animals, I am so affected. Not so affected by the zombies anymore, which is kind of like the characters are. Wow.

I always get really affected by animals but not people.

[Dr. Pepper]

Har! I'm sort of immune to animal stuff. It rarely affects me when I see it on screen or page. Gotta say, the squealing cut pigs made me choke up a bit. Probably had a lot to do with Rick looking absolutely shattered by it. You rarely get Class A acting with zombie stuff, but that was some good facial expression there. He has blood on his hands as a Sheriff, as a Ricktator, and now as a farmer. Squealing pigs gutted me.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Hold on, all these excuses for the stupidity of the characters in this show has undergone a strange transformation over the years. Early on, it was because "no one knows how to survive in a post apocalyptic world" as an excuse. "All you armchair QBs need to quit second guessing them." Fine, I'll stop expecting them to use logic at first.

But we're deep into the apocalypse at this point. In a world where zombies pop up all the time because if you die you become a zombie, wouldn't you imagine the prison blocks would have a bit more security? A single guard patrolling? Closing cell doors at night? If someone dies in their sleep (which happens) then the scene from the show yesterday totally happens every single time under current cell block structure. You close your cell doors at night, you post shift guards, etc. You live in a violent world you take precautions. All these hardened survivors ain't learned shit. They're idiots. What's up with this quarantine? Anyone exposed to what has to be quarantined? Anyone exposed to the dead zombies? Anyone coughing? I mean Tyrese was walking with coughing lady #1 when they decided to quarantine her. Wouldn't you expect a influenza strain might be transmutable enough that everyone was probably fucked? Their problem solving abilities are pretty suspect.

And why didn't they notice the dead rats before? They're poking zombies in the face every day, the dead rats have always been there, but now they notice when the fence is about to come down? What?

Also I guess all you people (awesome possum I'm looking at you!) who said the zombie bite doesn't cause infection, well now we know it does. As we always knew, but that was convenient to dismiss for the lack of logic in the group.

Anyway, the show is stupid as fuck, but hell, it's about zombies. I'll keep watching until something good about zombies comes along.

Oh yeah, whoever said "why does it have to be realistic? It's about ZOMBIES?" Yeah, just because the premise is silly, doesn't mean every has to act like a big fucking idiot.

[awesome possum]

Again, if this was a singular moment, no biggie.

I think it was, judging it by her reaction afterward and how bad she was beating herself up over it.

The bleeding out was referenced in Talking Bad when it was mentioned that bleeding from the eyes (and other orifices) is a symptom of whatever the illness is. In fact, you can tell if a person's died from the flu, or whatever, the makeup department gives them bloody tracks under their eyes.

Yeah, but this was a lot of blood.

[Honey Badger]

The quiet nerdy zombie kid was weird. They now have ninja zombies that can hide and hold their breath whenever they want? I was always under the impression the zombies were noisy shamblers who breathed loud like people with sleep apnea. Guess they continue to switch it around when the plot needs movement.

The pigs I'm surprised at. Pork and chicken need to be fully cooked to deal with contamination, while cattle and deer steaks in general are safe to eat medium rare. Zombie virus can survive being cooked, or is this only an airborne infection?

Oh yeah, whoever said "why does it have to be realistic? It's about ZOMBIES?" Yeah, just because the premise is silly, doesn't mean every has to act like a big fucking idiot.

That's my take on it. Any magic or fiction is fine by me so long as it's consistent in that world. What sucks about these Zeds are that they wildly change their parameters whenever the writers need something to happen and they're too lazy to stay within the confines of their rules. It makes a lot of the deaths and events seem like cheating. Wait, the zombies can do that now? But they couldn't before. Hmmmm ...

I never said TWD was exempt from criticism. Just that crying about how you aren't going to watch anymore adds nothing besides belly aching cry baby bullshit.

Have some self awareness. You're the one bitching.

[Reposado]

The quiet nerdy zombie kid was weird.  They now have ninja zombies that can hide and hold their breath whenever they want?  I was always under the impression the zombies were noisy shamblers who breathed loud like people with sleep apnea.  Guess they continue to switch it around when the plot needs movement.

 

The pigs I'm surprised at.  Pork and chicken need to be fully cooked to deal with contamination, while cattle and deer steaks in general are safe to eat medium rare.  Zombie virus can survive being cooked, or is this only an airborne infection? 

 

 

That's my take on it.  Any magic or fiction is fine by me so long as it's consistent in that world.  What sucks about these Zeds are that they wildly change their parameters whenever the writers need something to happen and they're too lazy to stay within the confines of their rules.  It makes a lot of the deaths and events seem like cheating.  Wait, the zombies can do that now?  But they couldn't before.  Hmmmm ...

 

 

Have some self awareness.  You're the one bitching.

But in this case. They have established that there is no internal consistency. The first 20 minutes of this episode had more plot holes than several scenes of most shows.

[Baitac]

Oy vey, people. I sure hope "lack of logic" complainers are not watching any horror/Halloween movies, because let me tell you, there's no logic and/or intelligence depicted in those movies. EVER. Don't complain about WD. It is no different from other crazy horror movies. "Don't go in there!!!" "Don't open the door." "Don't go play in the cemetery." "Don't pick up that hitchhiker." This genre is how it is. It is SILLY. It is frustrating. This all increases the viewer's emotional investment. One suffers for the characters and their idiocy and the repercussions thereof. If all stress and all problems were resolved, then there would be no satisfaction involved on the part of the viewer. The psychology of these shows is very simple. Yes, characters will be stupid and do stupid things. It's part and parcel of the genre. Accept it. Internalize it. Be happy. It's a TV show!

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

That's like saying accept sexism, mindless killing and piss poor plot in video games cause it's a video game! Be happy. But they can be done right too just like shows. Walking dead also had stupid red shirts dying I was hoping the new show runner would've changed that but this episode was mildly disappointing. I enjoyed the premiere though.

[eaglestate]

Oh my God. That was the best episode of the entire series. I am on team Gimple now. I got teary-eyed when the girls saw the father die, when Michonne was holding Judith, and when Rick was cutting the pigs. Such an emotional episode.

[Alia of the knife]

I only read back about 4 pages, so please don't :whip: me if it's been said before, but Judith is infected right? She's going to be the next "big" loss among the group?

I know a lot of people get tired of the stupid moments of the show, but I kind of think it's pretty realistic in some respects. I mean, these are normal everyday people and most people aren't of superior intelligence. So of course, stupid shit's gonna happen because people are stupid. Those things just don't bother me when I watch this show. I just enjoy the show and figure they all do a crap load better than I ever would in a zombie filled world.

I was hoping during season 1 that Carol would do a 180 and I think she has. I am loving her character and her interactions with Daryl. I think my favorite parts of this episode were Michonne and Judith and Rick putting his gun belt back on. I am wondering if Daryl is a carrier of the infection because he licked his fingers and shook Peter (?)'s hand. And if Judith has the infection then either Beth or Michonne have it now too.

As a side note: the make-up is unbelievably awesome this season. I could watch this show just for that alone.

Yeah, my take on Michonnes reaction to Judiths cry is that of a mother who instinctively knows there is something wrong with that cry,(and more evidence of Michonnes backstory), which is why I think she asked Beth specifically if Judith always cried like that.

Love, LOVE Carols character and her evolution.

As for the make-up, I also agree on the affects, but particularly on the "flu" zombies because it makes them look more "hybrid," as well as not watching the show for the zombies alone.

The bleeding out was referenced in Talking Bad when it was mentioned that bleeding from the eyes (and other orifices) is a symptom of whatever the illness is. In fact, you can tell if a person's died from the flu, or whatever, the makeup department gives them bloody tracks under their eyes.

I **did** hear that! Man of many talents.

Do I ever. I was gutted (like the horse) about that for weeks.

Which leads me to this....

Maybe I need to rewatch it, but it looked to me like Michonne 1. stopped in the middle of a zombie horde; 2. dismounted from her horse; 3. did NOT immediately unsheath her katana; and 4. was left with the option of defending herself by pushing the zombies away with her bare arms.

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK!? She endangered ANOTHER HORSE!

I may make Carol my avatar. :angry:

Although, I like your analysis. :thumbsup:

My respect for Rick went up several notches for his ability to corral those escaping piggies. :smoking:

[Reposado]

Oy vey, people. I sure hope "lack of logic" complainers are not watching any horror/Halloween movies, because let me tell you, there's no logic and/or intelligence depicted in those movies. EVER. Don't complain about WD. It is no different from other crazy horror movies. "Don't go in there!!!" "Don't open the door." "Don't go play in the cemetery." "Don't pick up that hitchhiker." This genre is how it is. It is SILLY. It is frustrating. This all increases the viewer's emotional investment. One suffers for the characters and their idiocy and the repercussions thereof. If all stress and all problems were resolved, then there would be no satisfaction involved on the part of the viewer. The psychology of these shows is very simple. Yes, characters will be stupid and do stupid things. It's part and parcel of the genre. Accept it. Internalize it. Be happy. It's a TV show!

This does not hold water. Other shows/movies being dumb isn't an excuse for this one

[Martini Sigil]

I thought that Karen was going to take over Andrea's plot line, as Andrea doesn't die in the comics.... Guess i was wrong.

As far as plausibility... I think that even the mosy logical, level headed people would make bonehead mistakes under those circumstances... personally, I would be wetting myself and going on twinkie hunts on a daily basis

[Alia of the knife]

I thought that Karen was going to take over Andrea's plot line, as Andrea doesn't die in the comics.... Guess i was wrong.

As far as plausibility... I think that even the mosy logical, level headed people would make bonehead mistakes under those circumstances... personally, I would be wetting myself and going on twinkie hunts on a daily basis

:laugh: :agree:

I would go mad just from sleep deprivation.

[Dr. Pepper]

That's my take on it. Any magic or fiction is fine by me so long as it's consistent in that world. What sucks about these Zeds are that they wildly change their parameters whenever the writers need something to happen and they're too lazy to stay within the confines of their rules. It makes a lot of the deaths and events seem like cheating. Wait, the zombies can do that now? But they couldn't before. Hmmmm ...

I think they've been pretty consistent in how inconsistent zombie behavior is. Pilot episode has a zombie showing a higher reasoning ability by turning a doorknob. Second episode has zombies nearly climbing fire escapes and picking up rocks to bang on windows. Next episode, zombies have zero reasoning ability. We constantly see zombie discrepancy in some way. Zombies sitting eerily quiet on buses, zombies wake and arise at different times, zombies laying quietly in a shower until disturbed by a noise. Andrea's sister took hours to arise as a zombie (and she was slow and quiet at first). Shane rose within a minute. They've also made it clear in the show that no one has seen everything zombies can and can't do. For nearly a year, Michonne and Andrea didn't know that everyone was infected and simply dying wasn't a cure to future zombie-ism.

If zombie is a virus, we should expect some sort of mutation. As such, the presentation of symptoms should alter at least a bit. Even if there has been no mutation in the zombie genome, can we reasonably expect every individual zombie to present in the exact same ways? There's a general list of symptoms for the flu virus, but not all people experience that entire list or even experience symptoms in the exact same way. Could another virus or illness in the body at time of death (like ebola, flu, or cancer) react with the zombie thing? Is that why we see some zombies sitting quietly in buses or showers while all the others are are herding and strolling around in groups? And if zombie-ism is a virus, and a virus' goal is to reproduce and survive, surely we'd see mutations that would encourage survival? Lying quietly in a shower (though obviously we've seen zombies do this since the pilot) waiting for ambush seems like a fairly reasonable ability for mutation.

These are the ways I tend to see what appears to be zombie inconsistencies whenever I delve into zombie fair, which is a lot. Of course, this is also a drama, so the zombie shit will be dramatized for purposes of entertainment. They have to change it up or else the group now saying "wah wah it's inconsistent" will turn into an even larger group saying "wah wah, super boring because it's always the same". Much as I love zombies, no way would I stick with a show if it's the same shit over and over and over again.

[the maid of woodlynne]

Regarding Carol: I'm really enjoying watching her this season. Her character has grown so strong, and so much, since the first season. And I've found myself grinning after her scenes with Darryl - those two have such a comfortable rapport now. It's a bright spot in a bleak situation.

The council meeting scene was a nice window into how the group dynamics have changed since the Rictatorship, plus it was covered quickly and without unnecessary exposition. Well done...

[Lady Olenna]

I don't know if it was brought up already but the walker troubles at the fence to me show just how brilliant Morgan's trap systems are in comparison. Why burn the wood? Sure, it might be disease ridden. But why not build some stakes, chuck some rats and diseased pigs there and let the walkers go to town?

Given the current state of affairs, the group might even be safer in Morgan's neighbourhood. It's perplexing how a whole group couldn't come up with a legit way to keep out walkers, when one man (who is insane) has done it quite well. And I get the group has more responsibilities, but seriously they should put some thought into it.

I miss Morgan.

"CLEAR"

I kind of assumed that the stakes outside the door was an idea taken from Morgan's many Walker traps. But yes, indeed, they could probably secure the place better. Maybe it's easier for a one-man operation than a too-many people operation to organize and operate? I was thinking about the fences and how they could theoretically reinforce them, but I'm not too sure how that would play out given that they probably have limited materials and I would think that wooden reinforements would not be an option since it would hinder the ability to clearly see the walkers.

I think the first episode set the stage for viewers to see that the group had gotten comfortable. And I think the infection was meant to bring back the point that there is no down time in Walker World and you have to be on high alert at all times. They paid for being too lax and now they have to readjust their thinking and get back into survival mode. The Woodbury group had been used to having their "suburban" life that the Gov created for them so maybe those people just haven't been ready for real life for quite some time now.

[Honey Badger]

Oy vey, people. I sure hope "lack of logic" complainers are not watching any horror/Halloween movies, because let me tell you, there's no logic and/or intelligence depicted in those movies. EVER. Don't complain about WD. It is no different from other crazy horror movies. "Don't go in there!!!" "Don't open the door." "Don't go play in the cemetery." "Don't pick up that hitchhiker." This genre is how it is. It is SILLY. It is frustrating. This all increases the viewer's emotional investment. One suffers for the characters and their idiocy and the repercussions thereof. If all stress and all problems were resolved, then there would be no satisfaction involved on the part of the viewer. The psychology of these shows is very simple. Yes, characters will be stupid and do stupid things. It's part and parcel of the genre. Accept it. Internalize it. Be happy. It's a TV show!

I think why the argument has such staying power is because the comics are good. Pretty consistent, good story, you care about the characters, they don't act stupidly. Or, when they do act stupidly, there can be consequences, and the main characters aren't really good guys or bad guys. So it's hard to ever take that argument seriously, that it has to be stupid because it's zombies.

Zombies done right is something the books will always have over the show. And it's not some isolated issue in a vacuum; the show has gone through multiple showrunners and fired staff writers, sometimes an entire room. Someone upstairs is listening, and they're still trying to find their writing stride in season four. Remarkable of course because it's such a popular show. Fingers crossed that they smooth things out eventually.

[Lady Olenna]

I think why the argument has such staying power is because the comics are good. Pretty consistent, good story, you care about the characters, they don't act stupidly. Or, when they do act stupidly, there can be consequences, and the main characters aren't really good guys or bad guys. So it's hard to ever take that argument seriously, that it has to be stupid because it's zombies.

Zombies done right is something the books will always have over the show. And it's not some isolated issue in a vacuum; the show has gone through multiple showrunners and fired staff writers, sometimes an entire room. Someone upstairs is listening, and they're still trying to find their writing stride in season four. Remarkable of course because it's such a popular show. Fingers crossed that they smooth things out eventually.

I don't really follow the news behind the making of the show, but I have heard that they keep running through writers, showrunners, etc. Why is that?

I re-watched a few episodes from season 1 and remembered why I fell in love with the show in the first place. I wish they would get back to that writing. Not that I don't like the other seasons, there was just something about season 1 that they seem to have lost.

[Loslathdos]

I don't really follow the news behind the making of the show, but I have heard that they keep running through writers, showrunners, etc. Why is that?

I re-watched a few episodes from season 1 and remembered why I fell in love with the show in the first place. I wish they would get back to that writing. Not that I don't like the other seasons, there was just something about season 1 that they seem to have lost.

Show runner of season 1 = show runner of season 2, got canned because most didn't like season dos