The Walking Dead: Season 4 - No Comic Spoilers!

[Khal-a-bunga]

With 16-20 million viewers, I'm sure I won't be. In any case, what an interesting and relevant post. Do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to, by any chance, because your opinion is one that I would like to follow?

[smegma]

Killing the pigs was pretty stupid, although considering how easily transferable diseases are between humans and swine, it might have been their only option. Still, considering the state of the world, losing one pig to disease would have been bad enough. If they were smart, they would have separated and quarantined the pigs for a few days to determine whether or not they were affected.

But "if they were smart", a lot of the things that happen on this show wouldn't happen. For instance, there is absolutely no reason for there to be so many walkers outside the prison gates. A quick visual estimate would have about 100 or so zombies out there, split in two separate groups (with some stragglers shuffling along here and there). If one person killed five zombies a minute, it would take approximately 20 minutes to kill every walker against the fence. The group has between 30 and 50 people, if I'm not mistaken, so I just don't see any logical reason for there to be so many of them (which is to say nothing of the sheer number of zombies in what looks to be a relatively rural area in the first place, or the fact that they haven't implemented any measures to distract the undead before they even get to the prison like they did at the supermarket).

I try to just switch my brain off and enjoy the show for what it is, but I don't know if there has been a show that has squandered its potential as much as this one has. It seems characterization is a main focus for Gimple, so that's definitely an improvement, but at this point I think it's too little, too late. I'll stick with it until the mid-season finale, but I may be on my way out with this show.

I'm also a big believer in just accepting what we are given and try to enjoy it for what it is, but this show goes beyond the ridiculous at times and I guess the issue is that there's so few moments of greatness along with a lot of missed opportunities and outright stupidity that it can't help but be frustrating. I still watch it because I think there's potential (especially with a new showrunner) but I can't escape the fact that they STILL have characters doing stupid things, like Michonne getting off her horse and going after the zombies with her arms, forgetting about that sword she loves to brandish so much was on her back - or the terrible inconsistencies with regards to zombie strength/speed/awareness and methods to foil them that the characters always forget or conveniently remember in what seems like lazy writing. Even just the one girl stomping on the zombie head in the jail bothered me, since it was a newly turned zombie how in the hell did her stomp make the skull shatter so much?

Anyway, I'm sorry that I expect consistency or characterization out of a show that has apparently disregarded both of them, and maybe I should give up. But I can only hope that it is going to improve so we'll see how one more season goes.

[awesome possum]

like Michonne getting off her horse and going after the zombies with her arms, forgetting about that sword she loves to brandish so much was on her back -

Might want to re-watch that one. She did go for her sword but mistimed it. Her arm was reaching back for it when the zombie came too close and she had to use both arms to push back.

[Darth Visenya]

Aw poor piglets :(.

[Lord Flashheart]

With 16-20 million viewers, I'm sure I won't be. In any case, what an interesting and relevant post. Do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to, by any chance, because your opinion is one that I would like to follow?

I figured your post was so engrossing, there was nothing I could add.

"I don't like this tv show, so I'm going to bitch and moan about it constantly instead of just not watching it."

Paraphrased I know, but what can one add to such superior posting?

[Nathan Stinson]

Sort of agreeing with a point above:

With the fence offering so many easy kills, I would think you could rotate people there to just kill a few walkers every few hours. You could easily kill hundreds a day this way.

The only issues I can see would be buildup of bodies which could cause weight against the fence or because of diseases from the body buildup?

[Nictarion]

I guess I don't understand the complaints about a lack of realism, or things making sense. Its a show about zombies FFS.

[Mark Antony]

I guess I don't understand the complaints about a lack of realism, or things making sense. Its a show about zombies FFS.

Lol

[Dr. Pepper]

One of the things I love most about zombie films and books are the inconsistent plot elements. I find it highly entertaining to point them out and dissect them. I also really enjoy how authors purposely use these inconsistencies to help further tell the story. It's very in-your-face and somewhat comical and I love it. You can look at it as though it's obvious stupid inconsistency (which the writers are surely aware of) or as really awesome visual (which, eyeballs squeezing through chain links is awesome no matter what anyone says) or as methods of telling a story, or a little of all three. Any way you look at it, it should provoke some sort of thoughtful reaction which is the point.

One example, burning the pigpen. They have Rick pouring (wasting)gasoline for it, then pull out into a wider shot to show the dried hay and the insides of the pen which shows pig shit. That pig pen didn't really need to be burned at all. Anyone already exposed could have pilfered the parts to be used to fortify the fence or something. They definitely didn't need to have Rick pouring a ridiculous amount of gas over the pile (which didn't even include the entire pen) when he could have easily used organic material to get the fire started. The viewer has to notice all of this and has to be pointing and shouting "ugh, wtf, why are they doing that" but the viewer also can't help but notice that's it's all a stupid waste, just like getting back to life as you knew it before after a freaking zombiepocalypse happens is a stupid waste.

That leads into other stupid inconsistencies, like drawing the walkers away with the squealing pigs. It's been pointed out many times that these characters know how to draw walkers away from or towards areas they want. They do it all the time, even went into detail explaining how they do it in the first episode of this season. It's not like the writers expect the audience to believe that the characters don't think about this when the walkers start crowding the fence. There appears to be an inconsistency, but it's also clear that the writers are interested in showing dozens of ways the characters are ignoring this for specific reasons. Rick uses headphones and music to drown out the noise of the walkers, they have story time for the kids, Carl's gun is hidden away, Karen doesn't want to shack up with Tyresse just yet. They all want to pretend that nothing has changed and try to restart life and model it in how it was before, but in order to do that, they have to ignore the glaring obvious at the fence. There are fucking zombies now. It can't be the same and in trying to make it the same, you get stupid. You get Woodbury all over again, where they pretend zombie-ism and pandemics of any sort can't happen, where the construct of adolescence is protected and valued, and where people die in droves.

I can't pretend to know that the writers think deeply and intelligently about the story, because I don't know who they are and I've never read any interviews of them. It doesn't really matter what the writers intend, though, because we viewers are separated from them. We see the end result and get to decide for ourselves what the intent is. For this viewer who absolutely loves the zombie genre, the inconsistencies are my favorite parts because they are often the areas where the most entertaining and thoughtful dialogue stems from. My friends and I can spend hours discussing those aspects.

On a related note, I cackled with glee when this season kicked off with this sort of epidemic. Last season, when Daryl and Maggie went to the daycare to find formula, Daryl paused in front of a sign about immunizations and I was really hoping they would go this route. You have dead, rotting bodies littering the land, people in close quarters, kids no longer getting immunized and the CDC blown to smithereens...was simply a matter of time before an unseen villain moved in.

[smegma]

Might want to re-watch that one. She did go for her sword but mistimed it. Her arm was reaching back for it when the zombie came too close and she had to use both arms to push back.

But SHE was the one that stupidly approached them without being armed first, causing the urgency instead of getting off the horse and pulling out the sword. This is the woman that walks around with that thing pointed at everything that moves, when it's convenient, and stupidly approaches two walkers that can be easily dispatched of with a few quick slashes, yet the writers choose to create drama out of a moment of idiocy rather than genuinely building a tense and difficult to handle moment where she finds herself at odds. It's one thing if the character IS new to the sword, but don't make try to make her a badass and then do an idiotic thing.

Again, if this was a singular moment, no biggie. But for me it is just another drop in the wasted opportunity buckets that have been overflowing for several seasons. I'm glad for the people that can accept the show as is and find it enjoyable - however I'm also glad for people like me, who expect a higher level of writing out of a show that WANTS to be "AMC" standard fare, and very well COULD be with some more consistency throughout the characters and the plot devices. I do see them attempting to flesh out the characters, which is a positive step in the right direction and it shows that the complaints have been heard - after all, why change showrunners for one of the most watched shows if they didn't think it could improve?

[Khal-a-bunga]

I figured your post was so engrossing, there was nothing I could add.

Paraphrased I know, but what can one add to such superior posting?

A rebuttal, perhaps, since what I posted was so clearly off-base? But that would require effort, where you're clearly only interested in snark (which you don't seem to be very good at). Could someone point me to the part of this thread that mentions that only positive comments are permitted?

I guess I don't understand the complaints about a lack of realism, or things making sense. Its a show about zombies FFS.

It's not so much a lack of realism, as it is a lack of common sense and internal logic.

[Lord Flashheart]

A rebuttal, perhaps, since what I posted was so clearly off-base? But that would require effort, where you're clearly only interested in snark (which you don't seem to be very good at). Could someone point me to the part of this thread that mentions that only positive comments are permitted?

I never said TWD was exempt from criticism. Just that crying about how you aren't going to watch anymore adds nothing besides belly aching cry baby bullshit.

[Khal-a-bunga]

I never said TWD was exempt from criticism. Just that crying about how you aren't going to watch anymore adds nothing besides belly aching cry baby bullshit.

Nobody is crying about anything except for you.

[Dr. Pepper]

I do like how they showed that Michonne had been getting weak and reckless and too comfortable with the way things were. She's bringing back comic books, talking about M&M's, riding horses and no longer using security measures like jawless, armless walkers, laughing and joking with everyone she's gotten close to instead of keeping fit, aware and ready. It got her hurt and this lack of readiness and alertness could have gotten two people she cared about hurt and/or killed. So what does she do after? She goes back to her workouts and hard-as-nails face, turning away from even the crying baby. It kept her alive for a long time, but as Andrea asked her last season, once they get to a deserted island where no walkers exist, then what? There's no future in solo, angry living just as there's no future in being complacent and weak. There needs to be a middle ground somewhere. Michonne, like the other characters, needs to find a place where she's able to draw her sword quickly and also able to eek out a future with the aid and support of others.

[aariafromarty]

Michonne doesnt draw her sword because she takes the time to calm the horse first. Having the horse spook and run off would have prevented her from going on those scouting missions.

[Alia of the knife]

I agree with Dr. Pepper, particularly on questions the show evokes.

It does make you think whether you would want to keep going, or give up.

Could you have the stamina and ferocity for a world like that, or would you slowly go insane like Clara and Shane?

Would you rise to the occasion like the guys at the nursing home, staying behind to help the old and the weak, or like Glen and Daryl, becoming different men?

Or would you allow the seething resentments of the old life to come to the fore like the Governor when faced with stress and loss?

I'm a person that loves life, but I don't know that I would want to keep going, battling constant exhaustion, fear and stress, as well as heartbreak, if knowing I'm already infected and doomed.

I just don't know, but those are the challenging questions beyond the inaccuracies of Zombie DNA.

On the subject of Clara, if anyone ever gets the chance, they should catch "Zombie Honeymoon," which contrary to the campy name, it got three stars as blend of comedy, romance, and tragedy.

[Gronzag]

It's not so much a lack of realism, as it is a lack of common sense and internal logic.

:agree:

[Lady Olenna]

I only read back about 4 pages, so please don't :whip: me if it's been said before, but Judith is infected right? She's going to be the next "big" loss among the group?

I know a lot of people get tired of the stupid moments of the show, but I kind of think it's pretty realistic in some respects. I mean, these are normal everyday people and most people aren't of superior intelligence. So of course, stupid shit's gonna happen because people are stupid. Those things just don't bother me when I watch this show. I just enjoy the show and figure they all do a crap load better than I ever would in a zombie filled world.

I was hoping during season 1 that Carol would do a 180 and I think she has. I am loving her character and her interactions with Daryl. I think my favorite parts of this episode were Michonne and Judith and Rick putting his gun belt back on. I am wondering if Daryl is a carrier of the infection because he licked his fingers and shook Peter (?)'s hand. And if Judith has the infection then either Beth or Michonne have it now too.

As a side note: the make-up is unbelievably awesome this season. I could watch this show just for that alone.

[Tears of Lys]

It looked like they had been killed while laying in bed. I know the sickness causes them to bleed out but there was a LOT of blood on the pillows of their beds and then in the path where they had been dragged. I can't be certain but I would think if they died naturally of their sickness (loose definition of "naturally") they would have stopped bleeding that much.

And yeah, Stookey's remark, "sickness spreads like fire in close quarters" was ominous, like he'd seen something similar before and so had the motivation to try to cut it off before it could spread further.

The bleeding out was referenced in Talking Bad when it was mentioned that bleeding from the eyes (and other orifices) is a symptom of whatever the illness is. In fact, you can tell if a person's died from the flu, or whatever, the makeup department gives them bloody tracks under their eyes.

It was the Spanish Flu of 1918 and the first of two involving the H1N1 virus, and infected five hundred million people. It was called the "Spanish Flu" only because they were hit the hardest, but it infected basically previously healthy, young adults.

As far as Michonne goes, I think I did hear last season that she did have a child in her backstory, and it was her brother and a lover, who were her initial "pets." I also think that one of the saddest aspects of the death of the pigs was Ricks reaction and his tears. Having those pigs and a "farm" was really one of the few vestiges of "normalcy" and that too was lost to the zombies.

I don't know if anyone caught on TD that those piggies escaped at one point before filming, and it was Andrew Lincoln himself who went out and caught them all.

He must not be "city boy." then :P.

I **did** hear that! Man of many talents.

Remember when the horse died in season one? :(

Do I ever. I was gutted (like the horse) about that for weeks.

Which leads me to this....

But SHE was the one that stupidly approached them without being armed first, causing the urgency instead of getting off the horse and pulling out the sword. This is the woman that walks around with that thing pointed at everything that moves, when it's convenient, and stupidly approaches two walkers that can be easily dispatched of with a few quick slashes, yet the writers choose to create drama out of a moment of idiocy rather than genuinely building a tense and difficult to handle moment where she finds herself at odds. It's one thing if the character IS new to the sword, but don't make try to make her a badass and then do an idiotic thing.

Maybe I need to rewatch it, but it looked to me like Michonne 1. stopped in the middle of a zombie horde; 2. dismounted from her horse; 3. did NOT immediately unsheath her katana; and 4. was left with the option of defending herself by pushing the zombies away with her bare arms.

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK!? She endangered ANOTHER HORSE!

I may make Carol my avatar. :angry:

I do like how they showed that Michonne had been getting weak and reckless and too comfortable with the way things were. She's bringing back comic books, talking about M&M's, riding horses and no longer using security measures like jawless, armless walkers, laughing and joking with everyone she's gotten close to instead of keeping fit, aware and ready. It got her hurt and this lack of readiness and alertness could have gotten two people she cared about hurt and/or killed. So what does she do after? She goes back to her workouts and hard-as-nails face, turning away from even the crying baby. It kept her alive for a long time, but as Andrea asked her last season, once they get to a deserted island where no walkers exist, then what? There's no future in solo, angry living just as there's no future in being complacent and weak. There needs to be a middle ground somewhere. Michonne, like the other characters, needs to find a place where she's able to draw her sword quickly and also able to eek out a future with the aid and support of others.

Although, I like your analysis. :thumbsup:

[Jabronius Maximus]

I don't know if it was brought up already but the walker troubles at the fence to me show just how brilliant Morgan's trap systems are in comparison. Why burn the wood? Sure, it might be disease ridden. But why not build some stakes, chuck some rats and diseased pigs there and let the walkers go to town?

Given the current state of affairs, the group might even be safer in Morgan's neighbourhood. It's perplexing how a whole group couldn't come up with a legit way to keep out walkers, when one man (who is insane) has done it quite well. And I get the group has more responsibilities, but seriously they should put some thought into it.