Jump to content

Sansa shouldn't have turned out the way she did


varunpats18

Recommended Posts

Sansa stark- a girl born and raised in winterfell, the heart of the North, surrounded mostly by northerners. When you think about her as a character, you don't associate attributes like boldness, strength or even warrior like characteristics. She is a hardcore lady who is not matched in courtesy by any person in planetos. She can be easily manipulated and forced to do things she doesn't want. Stupid and weak can be used in her description. If you didn't know her last name, you would bet she was a southron lady, and definitely not from the north.

Her mother was from the south. But, catelyn too had many northern traits. She was very strong, bold and sly(when she took tyrion to the Vale by using a clever lie and deceit)

So, the question is how did Sansa turn out the way she did. Coz, most northern women we have come across are all strong physically or mentally or both like Arya or lyanna.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa isn't strong mentally? 12 year-old girl watches her father beheaded by a man she loved, gets beaten on daily basis, threatened with rape, married to a hideous dwarf, and she remains the very decent human being she has always been. If that is not mental strength, I don't know what is.



BTW, believe it or not, honorable, strong people can be born on South too. I know, difficult concept to grasp, but nonetheless true. And also, downright s*its can be born in the North. I swear it is true.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're interpreting Sansa very differently than I am, but that's beside the point. Location doesn't dictate personality. Wynyfred Mandery is also a courteous lady and she's also of the North. We know of several southron warrior women like Danelle Lothston and Wenda the White Fawn. Jon notes a wildling girl who's shy and timid. Baelor Blacktyde and Rodrik Harlaw are intelligent ironborn opposed to war. Doran is a Dornishmen who isn't hotheaded and doesn't have much of a sex life. Just in case you forgot, Martin is writing people, not stereotypes.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa's mother is a Southron and devoted to the Seven. Catelyn brings a Septa to Winterfell to teach the girls about being a Lady (assume it was Catelyn - Ned followed the old gods).


Arya was a tomboy who didn't like this lady stuff but Sansa did like it. Sansa takes more after her mother while Arya is similar to her Aunt Lyanna.



The Seven has much to teach on Knights, Ladies, honour, chivalry and the like. Sansa grew with these stories of the protective Father and fair Maid etc.



This didn't make her stupid. She was a young naive girl in AGoT. She has had a lot of growing up to do but she's maturing quickly.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow a really harsh interpretation of her character!! I can only assume you wrote that post seconds after reading the passage in GoT where she betrays her Dad to Cersei. I strongly disagree with you caller her weak and stupid. I think she was sheltered and naive in aGoT but she was a pre-teen! By the end of aDwD she's still only 15 (IIRC) but is far stronger and smarter than any 15 year old I have ever known, when you consider what she's been through.



I think if you mean generally in terms of Southron sensibilities, then yes, she is not very 'northern' in that sense, though as posters have pointed out above, the stereotypes about each region's personalities are just that, stereotypes. Stereotypes with perhaps some basis in truth, but they are absolutely not hard-and-fast rules. Brienne is from about as far south as you get before Dorne but I would say in personality she is very Northern, imo most like a Mormont.



Cocoalover1956 has lots of good examples of personalities going against regional "type".



My opinion (nothing original here, just didn't want this to sound like a claimed fact) is that GRRM wanted the two Stark girls to be massive contrast. So Arya is the Northern "tom-boy", who prefers fighting and riding to more "ladylike" activities. Sansa as a girl was very much the prototype for societal expectations in Westeros. These two personalities are then altered by their respective characters' arcs. Sansa's instinctinve strong ability to fit in in social situations will I think (I hope!) become a great strength of hers in the final two books as she becomes a "player" in the Game. Similarly, Arya's wilfullnesss and independence of spirit are what helps her to survive and thrive through all the ordeals she's been through, but are also the reason why I believe she will never become "No-one", i.e. she will always be Arya of House Stark.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cersei and Joffrey describe Sansa as stupid and weak, no one else does. Sure, she's a little naive, but I think that has more to do with the fact she is a child who had a safe,and sheltered upbringing. She definitely loses her naivity as her story progresses.

As far as Sansa being more courteous than anyone else in Westeros, you seem to have forgotten Margaery. We first meet Margaery when Catelyn goes to Bitterbridge seeking an alliance with Renly. Catelyn, wife of an executed traitor and mother/envoy of an active traitor, is greeted by Margaery, who then promptly offers her condolences. Sansa and Margaery are the only two Septa-trained girls we really see, and their behaviors are consistent.

Catelyn herself says she had to learn to "act Northern," I believe while remembering something about Jorah Mormont's disastorus second marriage, but that was more about learning to appreciate the North for being the North, rather than comparing the North to the South. It's the same in real life - in the U.S., all northerners are not elitist snobs, all southerners are not ignorant hicks, and the elitist snobs and ignorant hicks that do exist are not confined to any one region.

And as far as Sansa not being mentally strong, I defer to this:

Sansa isn't strong mentally? 12 year-old girl watches her father beheaded by a man she loved, gets beaten on daily basis, threatened with rape, married to a hideous dwarf, and she remains the very decent human being she has always been. If that is not mental strength, I don't know what is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you think about her as a character, you don't associate attributes like boldness, strength

Has no boldness or strength? Have you read her PoVs where she's stuck in the viper's nest but still managed to come out strong?

or even warrior like characteristics.

Northern women aren't expected to be warriors either, minus the Mormonts did you see any female soldiers?

House Mormont fight because their environment and threat of the Iron Born meant they had to.

Lyanna was surrounded by men her whole life so obviously she learnt a thing or two. But even then Ned made it clear that Rickard wasn't allowing for it, he said Lyanna would have wielded a sword if their lord father allowed her to.

Arya is also an exception and was probably caused by Ned not knowing what to do with his 9 year old daughter so treated her like a boy. Even then he wasn't expecting her to grow up and be a warrior, he just wanted her to be happy because she was homesick.

She is a hardcore lady who is not matched in courtesy by any person in planetos.

And it kept her alive

She can be easily manipulated and forced to do things she doesn't want.

Honestly that makes her more Northern, GoT Sansa was very much her father's daughter; clueless naive and expected everyone to follow a code of honour.

Also there's a little thing called CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Yes GoT Sansa was vulnerable and naive but she grew up.

Stupid and weak can be used in her description.

Most of the North is painfully stupid when it comes to dealing with the South.

Sansa couldn't be weak, she didn't have that privilege. Her strength was the only thing that kept her alive in Kingslanding.

If you didn't know her last name, you would bet she was a southron lady, and definitely not from the north.

Well that's because she was tutored by a Southern mother and Septa...

She was very strong, bold and sly(when she took tyrion to the Vale by using a clever lie and deceit)

Does this mean Ned, Robb and, Jon aren't Northerners?

Cat was sly and clever because she was raised in the South, she was the only one in Robb's army that understood Southern politics.

So, the question is how did Sansa turn out the way she did.

She started off as Ned but was forced to be more like Cat.

Coz, most northern women we have come across are all strong physically or mentally or both like Arya or lyanna.

As I've said before Northern women aren't warriors, where on earth did you get this assumption?

If you don't think Sansa's mentally strong try being an 11 year old girl who witnessed her father's execution, was constantly beaten by grown men, and then forced to marry a dwarf whose family murdered hers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Siblings can be as different as night and day with exactly the same upbringing. I'm an artist, writer and excellent cook. My sister loves to shop, reads trashy romance novels and couldn't make a grilled cheese sandwich if someone held a gun to her head. We had exactly the same childhood. (and there wasn't a trashy romance novel to be found in my parent's house) I read the encyclopedia for fun. I see absolutely no problem with Arya and Sansa being so different and Sansa loving the southern lifestyle and being a romantic airhead isn't an issue for me at all. The fact that it was a northern household doesn't make any difference. Their personalities developed as they were meant to. If they were raised in a Southern home, Arya would still be the wild northern-type.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's best to reference Sophie Turner's defense of her own character:

"People don't like Sansa because she is feminine. It annoys me that people only like the feminine characters when they act like male characters. And they always go on about feminism. Like, you're rooting for the people who look like boys, who act like boys, who fight like boys. Root for the girls who wear dresses and are intellectually very strong."

---

*fetches popcorn*

We need a popcorn emoticon, don't we? :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sansa takes more after her mother while Arya is similar to her Aunt Lyanna.

Actually, if we would speak which of Stark children is most like Catelyn, Arya would easily take first place. If we would dig below the surface, Arya and Catelyn are the same. Catelyn is someone quite capable, a woman prepared to give a finger to entire system when it comes to protecting those she loves. Catelyn, just like Arya, has rather different view from certain Starks, most notably Ned, Jon and Sansa, even crying-to-song Lyanna. Arya doesn't live in dreams, and knows that world works despite some code of honor. Catelyn and Arya are aware of the bad in people, they see it and acknowledge it, not like Ned, or Sansa (GoT version) ignores it until it is too late. Even when we would look at Lady Stoneheart and Arya post-RW the hollowness and desire for revenge is something that is far from honorable Ned or Sansa.

Arya took after Lyanna her interests, her temper, but Lyanna grew. And ironically, she grew into Sansa. A naive girl from the North falling for Crown prince. That most certainly isn't Arya. Both Stark girls share a lot with Lyanna, only in separate things. I have written something about that here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If location matters, by that logic Arya and Sansa should be completely identical.

There is an obvious confusion here. I didn't mean to say location defines personality. I meant the people u grow around or grow with does matter. Sansa grew up with people widely different from here. This us the point of the forum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, if we would speak which of Stark children is most like Catelyn, Arya would easily take first place.

:agree:

They may not look the same but Arya's her mother's daughter whilst Sansa is Ned's

When people say "Arya's just like Lyanna" I'm like how, we have 0 knowledge of what kind of person Lyanna was. Honestly we could argue that she was a naive romantic like Sansa, there's no way of knowing :dunno:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...