James Steller Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 After the Battle of Blackwater Bay, Stannis spends most of "A Storm of Swords" on Dragonstone, with just over 2000 men left that were loyal to him. This is the man that Tywin, Cersei, and Tyrion all fear above any other man in Westeros. He's the most dangerous of the Five Kings, and by mid-Storm, the only one left alive. Yet it's only when Tommen is king, Tywin is dead, and Stannis is in the north, that the royalist forces are turned against Dragonstone and Storm's End. Hell, it's Cersei Lannister ordering attacks against Stannis' home bases, rightly seeing him as a threat to be eliminated, even though he was already long gone. Why did Tywin drop the ball on that front? He could have besieged Dragonstone and starved out the last serious threat to Joffrey around the same time as Robb Stark met his end at the Twins. Why risk Stannis recovering his strength and resuming the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 And how would they be getting there? The Redwyne fleets on the other side of the continent, and the Royal Fleet burned when Tyrion basically detonated a huge bomb. Also, Tywin knows Stannis has no friends. He was mainly dangerous because he had an enormous fleet (which mostly burned), and 20,000 men. His forces were absolutely decimated at the Blackwater, and he was weaker than when he started off. Eventually he would have set his eyes on Stannis, but it didn't seem a pressing issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Also, Tywin knows Stannis has no friends. He was mainly dangerous because he had an enormous fleet (which mostly burned), and 20,000 men. His forces were absolutely decimated at the Blackwater, and he was weaker than when he started off. What better time to finish him off? Stannis is never going to stop fighting. He'll find a way. Kill him now, in the wake of Blackwater as soon as possible to wipe out the biggest threat to your cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 What better time to finish him off? Stannis is never going to stop fighting. He'll find a way. Kill him now, in the wake of Blackwater as soon as possible to wipe out the biggest threat to your cause. Was Stannis really the biggest threat after the Blackwater? It seems that the priority rightly shifted to Robb who had a large army and two Great Houses behind him, when it seemed for all intents that Stannis had just lost everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastTymor Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 And how would they be getting there? The Redwyne fleets on the other side of the continent, and the Royal Fleet burned when Tyrion basically detonated a huge bomb. Also, Tywin knows Stannis has no friends. He was mainly dangerous because he had an enormous fleet (which mostly burned), and 20,000 men. His forces were absolutely decimated at the Blackwater, and he was weaker than when he started off. Eventually he would have set his eyes on Stannis, but it didn't seem a pressing issue. This. What better time to finish him off? Stannis is never going to stop fighting. He'll find a way. Kill him now, in the wake of Blackwater as soon as possible to wipe out the biggest threat to your cause. Tywin had no fleet nearby. Not being Jesus, he had no way of getting to Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPathera Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Tywin focused priority to Robb who still had the North and Riverlands supporting him with the Vale still neutral. Stannis at this time only had a token army and fleet. Tywin knows that Dragonstone is a formidable fortress to takeover and even then, the remaining ships won't be able to carry enough men to Dragonstone to launch a proper siege. But Stannis wasn't forgotten or neglected. Tywin was merely bidding his time or else a botched attempt may inspire someone to join Stannis or Stannis may escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Come to think of it, the fact that Stannis made it out alive from Blackwater is a miracle in itself. Between that and the siege of Dragonstone in AFFC, Rolland Storm is a seriously underrated warrior and battle commander in ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Dagoghlor Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Come to think of it, the fact that Stannis made it out alive from Blackwater is a miracle in itself. Between that and the siege of Dragonstone in AFFC, Rolland Storm is a seriously underrated warrior and battle commander in ASOIAF. The Bastard of Nightsong is definitely one of my top five minor characters. In regards to the OP: as Fat Mac pointed out he didn't have a fleet capable of transporting men to Dragonstone until the Redwynes arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Maester Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 This is the man that Tywin, Cersei, and Tyrion all fear above any other man in Westeros. He's the most dangerous of the Five Kings, and by mid-Storm, the only one left alive. Was Stannis really the biggest threat after the Blackwater? It seems that the priority rightly shifted to Robb who had a large army and two Great Houses behind him, when it seemed for all intents that Stannis had just lost everything. I am assuming this whole thread is based on that one throw-away line by Tywin about how he thought that Stannis was the true threat but he was just fiddling his thumbs on Dragonstone. As for the OP, they didn't really have any way to reach Stannis and Stannis was fairly irrelevant. They did deal with Dragonstone as soon as they got the fleet to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 And how would they be getting there? The Redwyne fleets on the other side of the continent, and the Royal Fleet burned when Tyrion basically detonated a huge bomb. Also, Tywin knows Stannis has no friends. He was mainly dangerous because he had an enormous fleet (which mostly burned), and 20,000 men. His forces were absolutely decimated at the Blackwater, and he was weaker than when he started off. Eventually he would have set his eyes on Stannis, but it didn't seem a pressing issue. Was Stannis really the biggest threat after the Blackwater? It seems that the priority rightly shifted to Robb who had a large army and two Great Houses behind him, when it seemed for all intents that Stannis had just lost everything. As stated above Tywin had no fleet to assault Dragonstone and Robb Stark was the much greater threat. He likely figured that he could finish Stannis at his leisure after he defeated Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It seems like Tywin could've ordered the Redwyne fleet to at least blockade Dragonstone, to make sure Stannis couldn't leave. Maybe they dragged their heels. Or maybe Tywin needed Stannis as an enemy for a little while longer to cement the Tyrell alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It seems like Tywin could've ordered the Redwyne fleet to at least blockade Dragonstone, to make sure Stannis couldn't leave. Maybe they dragged their heels. Or maybe Tywin needed Stannis as an enemy for a little while longer to cement the Tyrell alliance The Redywne are sworn to the Tyrells. When you're in negotiations with someone the last thing you need is to make yourself look weak by asking for more favors. Force the hand too much and the Tyrells may start wondering whether they can put Willas Tyrell on the iron throne instead of Margaery especially if they convince the Martells to offer help (Arianne-Willas marriage?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Others Take Them Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Stannis was sitting there with a few thousand broken men and a pirate fleet that was jumping to abandon him. He was no threat. Meanwhile, he had some pretty damn pressing matters in the Westerlands and the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It seems like Tywin could've ordered the Redwyne fleet to at least blockade Dragonstone, to make sure Stannis couldn't leave. Maybe they dragged their heels. Or maybe Tywin needed Stannis as an enemy for a little while longer to cement the Tyrell alliance They're galleys, not Concorde, it takes months to reach the Crownlands from the Arbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Robb Stark was running around pillaging the Westerlands. Stannis was talking about attacking Claw Isle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think that he was trying make him die since he thought that he had no way out. So he was waiting for his men to betray him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 At the outset of the war, Renly had the biggest army and was marching on KL while Robb had allied with the Freys and was poised to invade the Westerlands. So even though Stannis is thought to be the best military commander, first things first. That is why Tywin originally marched on Robb, thinking that his inexperience and youthfulness would lead him to confront Tywin's army directly, and since Renly was moving so slowly up the Rose Road there would be time to hustle back to KL. When Robb refused to cooperate and then Renly died and the Tyrell alliance presented itself, the next logical course of action was to launch a sneak attack on Stannis on the Blackwater to prevent him from gaining the capital. From there, I think the plan was that a combined Lannister-Tyrell host would march on DS, but only after the alliance was sealed with a royal wedding. By then, of course, Robb, who had already decided to march north to retake Winterfell anyway, was dead, and so was Balon Greyjoy. So that was that. In short, Stannis did not become the priority until he gained an army from the remnants of Renly's host. After that host was defeated on the BW, he would have been the next target, but then he split for the wall, and then Joffrey died, and then Tywin died and, well, the best laid plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 What better time to finish him off? Stannis is never going to stop fighting. He'll find a way. Kill him now, in the wake of Blackwater as soon as possible to wipe out the biggest threat to your cause. Well, the Black Knight never stopped fighting, either, nevertheless Arthur just let him be. Back to Westeros: even when Robb Stark had been dealt with, there were the ironborn to consider. And it mayhaps didn't seem prudent to Tywin to tie his naval resources at Dragonstone before dealing with the Iron Islands. Also, didn't the Purple Wedding happen like mere two weeks after the Red Wedding? And then Tywin had his hands full with more pressing matter, like the trial and getting shot in the privy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Although it looks like it took ages since it is more than half the book, Stannis was not on Dragonstone for very long. Robb returns from the Westerlands and dies at the Red Wedding a few weeks after the Blackwater. Joffrey a couple weeks after that, and Stannis sails the next day. Redwyne's fleet did not circle Dorne yet, and the Lannisters had barely 7 ships left (with the 5 returned from Dorne, the Royal Fleet is 12 ships strong after the Blackwater) against the ~30 that Stanis has. An attack on Dragonstone was not possible before Stannis left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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