Mithras Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 What is obvious is that LF sold Sansa like a simple tavern girl. If Sansa has some senses, she would realize what it means to give a Stark girl hostage to the Boltons (who are not strong enough to resist if the North rises against them) while Stannis is in need of a Stark to bind the North to his cause. It also does not make sense for LF to not know anything about Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashless Society Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Well, like someone said before the north remembers, but apparently the showrunners don't. I dind't like at all the scene with good guy Ramsay telling Littlefinger he promises he won't hurt Sansa (maybe I'm naive, but his eyes looked honest), and please, if someone could make and effort and explain this to me: Sansa is married to Tyrion and is acused to be part of the killing of Joffrey, and she is an outlaw just like Tyrion, right? Tommem is the king, so the Lannisters still rule the Seven Kingdoms, as far as I know. Sansa did not went to bet with Tyrion, but at this point, Tommem would have to sign the anulment of their wedding for her to be a single lady again, right? She must be single to have a real marriage with Ramsay. So how the hell does Littlefinger think this will happen? "Oh, hey Tommem, I found Sansa and I want her marriage anullment so she can marry the son of the warden of the north and I can gain more allies, could you sign this for me?" LF says that they only need to prove that the marriage wasn't consummated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 So, there we are... After months would they/wouldn't they, they did and it is what it is. But the question is what it really is? While I would agree that this has been superbly acted and that Ms Turner has been phenomenal this season, the problem is not the actress or the cast, but the writing. I am not sure that this fits into the established narrative, which, TBH, is flickering with every new episode. I suppose this opens some new doors and that it will give us the chance to see "new Sansa". I am a bit surprised that they have planned this for a while, because, for the time being, it doesn't look like they thought this through completely. And while that EW article gives some answers, the idea that it is more important to shock the book fans than to actually create plausible and logical storylines is something that is very annoying and problematic for me. Because, if this was the change for the purposes of change alone, then I suppose that the shock value alone for me is not that important. As I promised, we will see. I don't like it, but I sure can't precisely tell whether this will work or fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Well, like someone said before the north remembers, but apparently the showrunners don't. I dind't like at all the scene with good guy Ramsay telling Littlefinger he promises he won't hurt Sansa (maybe I'm naive, but his eyes looked honest), and please, if someone could make and effort and explain this to me: Sansa is married to Tyrion and is acused to be part of the killing of Joffrey, and she is an outlaw just like Tyrion, right? Tommem is the king, so the Lannisters still rule the Seven Kingdoms, as far as I know. Sansa did not went to bet with Tyrion, but at this point, Tommem would have to sign the anulment of their wedding for her to be a single lady again, right? She must be single to have a real marriage with Ramsay. So how the hell does Littlefinger think this will happen? "Oh, hey Tommem, I found Sansa and I want her marriage anullment so she can marry the son of the warden of the north and I can gain more allies, could you sign this for me?" They are Northerners who believe in old gods, all they need is a weirwood tree and say previous marriage was forced and in light of wrong gods and it is annulled. No one in the North will mind it religiously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayarts Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 More importantly, Roose Bolton tells us that he doesn't care whether she is a virgin or not, so I think this matter is off hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 But didn't Sansa pretty much kinda get to this point in 4x08 ?(and i'd argue that she isn't that far off from this knowledge in the books either, she knows LF is not to be trusted, but she doesn't really have anything else to do or anyone else to rely on.)Is 408 the Ep where Sansa puts on a darker dress at the end?What I think was happening to Sansa in season 4 was that she was realising some of how LF plays is good effective and she was trying to wrap him around her little finger and thinking she had succeeded - but obviously she hasn't. LF likes Sansa, a lot. But Sansa is not cat. I think Sansa will be his undoing, because he has been training her and likes her just enough to let his guard down - but Sansa hasn't realised that LF is willing to sell her out entirely for himself yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I have a horrible suspicion that the producers are planning to shock us by having Ramsay ordering Reek to "make Lady Sansa ready for me" on the night of the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Kind of amazed that they planned this from as early as season 2 (with the whole Myranda thing), yet did all that stuff with season 4*8...I wonder how Sansa will get revenge on Petyr for giving her to be tortured by Ramsay Bolton if Petyr is all the way in Kings Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I have a horrible suspicion that the producers are planning to shock us by having Ramsay ordering Reek to "make Lady Sansa ready for me" on the night of the wedding. Well, that is one way of getting Sansa to hate LF - but I will be surprised if the show goes there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruna stormborn Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 LF says that they only need to prove that the marriage wasn't consummated.Well, but for the anullment they wouldn't have to have the king's consent? Like, they are noble houses, their marriage is political, it's not like smallfolk getting married or not... just wondering They are Northerners who believe in old gods, all they need is a weirwood tree and say previous marriage was forced and in light of wrong gods and it is annulled. No one in the North will mind it religiously.(again) but for the rest of Westeros, does this faith counts? I know that for northeners it would be a relief to have a Stark in Winterfell again and the marriage should be in front of a heart tree, but all of other kingdoms accepted and live by the faith of the Seven. So will their marriage be accepted by the rest?and that stuff that is killing me: she *killed* Joffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogprivilege Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Is 408 the Ep where Sansa puts on a darker dress at the end? What I think was happening to Sansa in season 4 was that she was realising some of how LF plays is good effective and she was trying to wrap him around her little finger and thinking she had succeeded - but obviously she hasn't. LF likes Sansa, a lot. But Sansa is not cat. I think Sansa will be his undoing, because he has been training her and likes her just enough to let his guard down - but Sansa hasn't realised that LF is willing to sell her out entirely for himself yet. Your interpretation definitely does match up much better with s5 Sansa seemingly seeing herself as some sort of equal, co-conspirator to LF. I took it as her seeing overall just how untrustworthy LF was. She's his weakness, and yeah therefore does have a more bargaining position, but still not to be trusted. Maybe I was probably looking for something that wasn't there.My main thing is that 4x08 Sansa is not someone who would have believed LF going on about how much he cares about her. tbh re the tyrion marriage, I wouldn't expect to hear anymore about it. I think they just managed to slide around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 LF is planning to have Sansa's marriage annulled in order to free her hand. Normally, Cersei would never allow that nor LF could have saved his head after even mentioning it. But I think LF will tell her that he gave the Boltons a false coin in order to prevent the Northmen flocking to Stannis and so he might have a real chance. Perhaps LF will also kick the chair under the Tyrells by ratting them out for the PW. So, Cersei's suspicions about Sansa will cease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 LOL, Myranda Royce is bad news, mark my words. Book Sansa has a remarkably poor track record with women who make an elaborate show of sisterhood only to screw her over: Cersei, Margaery, Lysa, etc. Compare and contrast with good egg Mya, who is helpful and honest but isn't falling all over herself to make friends with Sansa. Sansa has kinda realised that some friendships are fake. During her wedding feast, she saw the Tyrell girls and thought (paraphrasing) "my so called friends". She was thinking about confronting Lysa but she went mad and died. For the life of me I cannot understand how Littlefinger convinced Sansa that to avenge her family she had to ally with the guy who personally stabbed her brother in the chest. I still don't understand what exactly LF expect Sansa to do to effect this "vengeance". Stab Ramsay during the wedding night? I don't think he has a plan at all I suppose he might be playing her, like "if you do this, you can avenge them" so she could play along. But he's not actually expecting her to avenge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Your interpretation definitely does match up much better with s5 Sansa seemingly seeing herself as some sort of equal, co-conspirator to LF. I took it as her seeing overall just how untrustworthy LF was. She's his weakness, and yeah therefore does have a more bargaining position, but still not to be trusted. Maybe I was probably looking for something that wasn't there.My main thing is that 4x08 Sansa is not someone who would have believed LF going on about how much he cares about her. tbh re the tyrion marriage, I wouldn't expect to hear anymore about it. I think they just managed to slide around it. I think if in S4E8 they had intended to show that Sansa merely thought LF's equal, they would've given a subtle hint that LF is playing Sansa and that she is his future Jeyne Poole. Instead we got some scenes where Sansa, unsubtly, looked like she really was in control of LF. Also they were going on a tour of the Vale, but suddenly that was dropped this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Arthurzico Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 As LF will be in King's Landing this season, do you think he might have anything to do with Cersei's downfall?Why do you think Cersei called him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADanceWithCats Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 As LF will be in King's Landing this season, do you think he might have anything to do with Cersei's downfall? Why do you think Cersei called him? Well, yeah, obviously. Olenna will threaten him, so he'll tell Olyvar to testify he had sex with Cersei. Or something. One absolutely wonderful thing about this storyline: no mention of Sandor Clegane whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Well, but for the anullment they wouldn't have to have the king's consent? Like, they are noble houses, their marriage is political, it's not like smallfolk getting married or not... just wondering (again) but for the rest of Westeros, does this faith counts? I know that for northeners it would be a relief to have a Stark in Winterfell again and the marriage should be in front of a heart tree, but all of other kingdoms accepted and live by the faith of the Seven. So will their marriage be accepted by the rest?and that stuff that is killing me: she *killed* JoffreyI believe technically high septon can annull the marriage not king, as for political considerations the king's authority hardly exceeds kings landing and there is virtually no authority of iron throne beyond KL or crownlands at max. If Roose has Sansa and want to marry her to ramsay there is nothing iron throne could do about it. As for southern lords and families they all accepted targaryen incest quietly even though targaryen adopted same faith as theirs which us strictly against incest and it should be noted that westeros is not a well integrated society, northerners don't care about south and vice versa and if Northern lords believe she killed joffrey it is all the more respect for sansa because she avenged Ned sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 One absolutely wonderful thing about this storyline: no mention of Sandor Clegane whatsoever. Yeah, now people can ship Sansa with someone so normal, like... Ramsay Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Arthurzico Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Well, yeah, obviously. Olenna will threaten him, so he'll tell Olyvar to testify he had sex with Cersei. Or something. Ok, I guess this make perfect sense... But, if this happens, then she will be falsely accused. She will be a victim of a conspiracy and not a failed conspirator. It'll actually be great to see her being set up by the same people that did this to Tyrion. But any thoughts of why Cersei called him there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Smokin a Blunt Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Frey pies, Frey pies, lovely, lovely Frey pies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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