PatrickStormborn Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 D) Jon is dead, never to return in any form whatsoever. We find out afterwards who his parents really are, however there's no SuperTarg/AAR transformation. No cliche hero BS. The cliffhanger after FTW was just there to tease fans. I know, I know... wishful thinking that GRRM would ever do something that brilliant. That wouldn't be brilliant. It would be terrible writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTheWolves Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Sighs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well then, perhaps that photo of Stannis's wife is her begging not to be toast? That would be a pretty nifty switcheroo...especially if Davos is the one to point it out. "I read in that book your daughter was teaching me to read you have kingsblood too!" *giggles I like this idea (therefore I doubt it will happen). Or maybe Reek escapes to Stannis' camp, he gives them valuable information on how to attack WF, and then they burn Reek. This could only happen if Ramsay brings Reek with him as part of his SEAL team, and then Reek is captured during raid. But I doubt Ramsay would bring Reek with him, the smell would give away their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixiesArcher Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Considering the way society thinks these days Danerys saving the day with her dragons would be just as cliché. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorkalba Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 That wouldn't be brilliant. It would be terrible writing. No, terrible writing would be reviving a dead character to complete a typical Chosen One saves the day storyline. I guess too much unpredictability and uniqueness in fiction takes people out of their comfort zones though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 No, terrible writing would be reviving a dead character to complete a typical Chosen One saves the day storyline. I guess too much unpredictability and uniqueness in fiction takes people out of their comfort zones though. He's not dead, LOL. But, really, I think terrible writing is following a character for 5 books, including a mystery about his real parents only to kill him off randomly in a way that doesn't even advance the story in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I agree with the sentiment, but it isn't quite that simple I think. There are many different levels of "bad things" and there are many different levels of what "the greater good" is, just like there are many different shades of grey in a person as is represented in GRRM's characters. If the Others are basically an evil force of nature that must be stopped, then it is likely that Melisandre's presence at the Wall is helpful to the cause of the "good" side in spite of the terrible things she might do in the name of R'hllor. I despise Mel. I despise everything she stands for, but describing her as evil is perhaps to ignore one of the many interesting points of GRRM's story. Like many other characters, she is a (quite darkly) grey character serving a particular cause. And in her case, it appears to be a good cause even if the way she serves it is morally despicable. Gabe, i agree with this nothing is black and white (pun intended) in this little world of ours...i also hate her and will scream like a girl when she gets hers...hopefully in a fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nationalanthem91 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think Stanis would be smart enough to send Davos away before he tried burning Shireen. He knows there is NO WAY Davos would stand there and let that happen. Davos is either dead or long gone when that happens.I agree completely. Stannis may bend, but Davos would NEVER let anyone hurt Shireen. He lost his child-his son in Blackwater. He knows the pain of losing children, plus he has a bond with Shireen that is perhaps stronger than the one she has with Stannis. I can't see him being present if she was being sacrificed because he just wouldn't let it happen. That's why I think either Stannis sent him back to Jon, or (hopefully not) he's dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Gabe, i agree with this nothing is black and white (pun intended) in this little world of ours...i also hate her and will scream like a girl when she gets hers...hopefully in a fire... Poetic justice for sure, but not until her purpose is served. All that said, I'd be all for killing her now if she really does burn Shireen :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorkalba Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 He's not dead, LOL. But, really, I think terrible writing is following a character for 5 books, including a mystery about his real parents only to kill him off randomly in a way that doesn't even advance the story in any way. Why shouldn't important characters be killed off? ASoIaF should be a bit beyond plot armor and Disney-esque endings. Having someone who has been built up as a chosen hero and saviour of humanity suddenly die would really hammer home just how hopeless the war against the Others is. The Nights Watch, who have been tasked to protect the world of men, have effectively doomed everyone by killing off AAR. There's your story advancement. With Jon resurrected and in full SuperTarg mode, victory is a boring and foregone conclusion. Wouldn't it be more interesting if the Others actually won outright? I can't remember ever coming across a book, film or TV show where the bad guys actually win. Is that going too far out of peoples comfort zones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwoofwoof Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Stannis really loves his daughter and I can't see him allowing her to be sacrificed by Mel. I like someone's theory that HE will actually be sacrificed instead. But I also like the thought of Brienne getting to him. So many options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Onion Knight Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Got a bad feeling :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Why shouldn't important characters be killed off? ASoIaF should be a bit beyond plot armor and Disney-esque endings. Having someone who has been built up as a chosen hero and saviour of humanity suddenly die would really hammer home just how hopeless the war against the Others is. The Nights Watch, who have been tasked to protect the world of men, have effectively doomed everyone by killing off AAR. There's your story advancement. With Jon resurrected and in full SuperTarg mode, victory is a boring and foregone conclusion. Wouldn't it be more interesting if the Others actually won outright? I can't remember ever coming across a book, film or TV show where the bad guys actually win. Is that going too far out of peoples comfort zones? He hasn't been built up that way. We have built him up that way based on hints. We weren't supposed to work out R+L=J and come to the conclusion that he is AAR or TPTWP but GRRM's slow writing pace and the way his project has scaled larger and larger means it has been worked out.... Edited to add: ....as a possibility at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Why shouldn't important characters be killed off? ASoIaF should be a bit beyond plot armor and Disney-esque endings. Having someone who has been built up as a chosen hero and saviour of humanity suddenly die would really hammer home just how hopeless the war against the Others is. The Nights Watch, who have been tasked to protect the world of men, have effectively doomed everyone by killing off AAR. There's your story advancement. With Jon resurrected and in full SuperTarg mode, victory is a boring and foregone conclusion. Wouldn't it be more interesting if the Others actually won outright? I can't remember ever coming across a book, film or TV show where the bad guys actually win. Is that going too far out of peoples comfort zones? There are plenty of films and books where the bad guys win. I don't know about comfort zone, but a story that the author spent 30 years on, and the end is, nothing? Nothing is nothing and everything was all pointless, every character you've been following for 7 books is dead? No, that's not something I want to be invested in actually, if we get a nihilist ending it will be very disappointing. Killing everyone just to be outre is sort of silly if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwoofwoof Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ned Stark's head on a spike warned us all not to get attached to anyone... including happy endings. The most we can hope for are flashes of brilliant heroism like we see in Jon, Dany, and Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Stannis really loves his daughter and I can't see him allowing her to be sacrificed by Mel. I like someone's theory that HE will actually be sacrificed instead. But I also like the thought of Brienne getting to him. So many options... Not making sense. The act is so that Stannis could be king, or gain an advantage in the battle for him to be king. Why would he be sacrificed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Why shouldn't important characters be killed off? ASoIaF should be a bit beyond plot armor and Disney-esque endings. Having someone who has been built up as a chosen hero and saviour of humanity suddenly die would really hammer home just how hopeless the war against the Others is. The Nights Watch, who have been tasked to protect the world of men, have effectively doomed everyone by killing off AAR. There's your story advancement. With Jon resurrected and in full SuperTarg mode, victory is a boring and foregone conclusion. Wouldn't it be more interesting if the Others actually won outright? I can't remember ever coming across a book, film or TV show where the bad guys actually win. Is that going too far out of peoples comfort zones? ye gods man, important characters die more often than redshirts in old star trek...i mean the list is too long for my pitiful typing skills :smoking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwesteros Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients. My spells should suffice. She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them. With such sorceries at her command, she should soon have no more need of the feeble tricks of alchemists and pyromancers. Thank you! I've forgotten so many key passages, or else they didn't really 'stick' in the first place because I was just racing through the books to see what happened next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorkalba Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 He hasn't been built up that way. We have built him up that way based on hints. We weren't supposed to work out R+L=J and come to the conclusion that he is AAR or TPTWP but GRRM's slow writing pace and the way his project has scaled larger and larger means it has been worked out.... Edited to add: ....as a possibility at least I picked up on Jon being the hero of the story during my first read through before I explored all the internet theories. I've also spoken to quite a few Unsullied who have picked up on it just from watching the TV show, despite D&D's efforts to paint Daenerys as the hero and saviour. They expect Jon more than anyone else to save the day and take the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTheWolves Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Got a bad feeling :( you and me both... things are about to get ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.