What is the biggest problem in the world? CORRUPTION

[Tears of Lys]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

I wondered about the lack of American names on the list.

Is this because of:

1.   Americans didn't use this firm?  or

2.   There will be another release of information, dedicated to Americans? or

3.   It was the CIA that hacked the law firm's records and did the information dump, and they weren't interested in embarrassing Americans at this point in time?

4.  Because it's understood that our politicians are almost **all** corrupt.   Almost.   

[Fragile Bird]

3 minutes ago, Tears of Lys said:

4.  Because it's understood that our politicians are almost **all** corrupt.   Almost.   

I don't know if you saw my post in one of the book threads, but I mentioned the fact my brother had handed over a stack of the 'airport fiction' he reads to me, so I could have a break from my sci-fi and fantasy and murder mysteries.  After reading a few of them, I wondered out loud to him why they were all the same, about corruption and dishonesty and secret funds and senators and congressmen in the pockets of corporations and foreign governments.  He told me it was because Americans liked reality fiction. 

[Altherion]

It's interesting how some of the Western media made Putin the most prominent example whereas in fact he's old-school KGB and meticulous about keeping his hands clean (i.e. there was nothing directly about Putin, only more of his surprisingly wealthy childhood friends). I don't think this will have much of an impact in Russia.

On the other hand, the Ukrainian president was directly implicated and, given that the main fight in Ukraine is currently over corruption, this might actually have some significant repercussions for him.

[Lyanna Stark]

8 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

4.  Because it's understood that our politicians are almost **all** corrupt.   Almost.   

It seems to me this is mostly about shining a light on companies hiding out from regulation. This article lays it out in some detail, and basically explains that even if to a lot of people, hiding wealth is immoral and really sucks, what is perhaps even worse is that offshore companies are used to launder money for criminal activities and outright warfare. I'm all for tax dodgers to get the what for, but long term, it seems to me the more important fallout is that legal companies operating under the radar and enabling criminals, terrorists, warlords etc. access to lots and lots of money need to be stopped.

As for politicians, most of them seem like small potatoes, apart from the ones we sort of already knew were rotten. It should come as a surprise to almost no one that Putin can manage an emporium of wealth and bribery while also keeping his own hands relatively clean. He's like Littlefinger in that regard. Thoroughly rotten, but difficult to make anything really stick to him.

[sologdin]

even assuming that the metaphorical content of corruption signifies in this context, probably safe to say that items such as violations of the rome statute and the decease of ~8M minor children per annum from prevantable disease supersede it on the hierarchy of global problems.

[Tears of Lys]

7 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

It seems to me this is mostly about shining a light on companies hiding out from regulation.

True.  But I was expanding on the idea of Corruption (with a capital C) being one of the world's biggest problems.  All of us have the seeds of it within us.  The bigger the stakes, the bigger the opportunity to have this seed take root and grow into something quite ugly. 

I'm sure that if you spoke with some of the decision-makers at these companies, they'd give you quite good reasons (to them) for their actions.  And they can **always** find some way around regulations, whether it be loopholes or even bribing the regulators - who are just people with the same seeds of corruption within them. 

It's good to have information made available to us so at least we know who's doing what, but what do we do now?  How do we control it? 

[Altherion]

The prime minister of Iceland has resigned:

Quote

 

The Panama Papers leaks apparently resulted in a political casualty Tuesday when Icelandic Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson resigned.

Sigurdur Ingi Johannsson, the deputy chair of the Progressive Party, announced Gunnlaugsson's resignation Tuesday on Iceland's national public service broadcaster RUV.

Gunnlaugsson had been under intense pressure to step down since leaked documents hacked from a Panamanian law firm revealed his links to an offshore company, triggering mass protests in the capital.

 

 

[Knute]

2 hours ago, Altherion said:

The prime minister of Iceland has resigned:

 

It was inevitable after the nationwide protests by nearly everyone and their pet polar bear. Out with the old in with the Pirate party, arooo.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Shady Panamanian companies aren't really necessary.

We regularly joke that this is the tallest money laundry in the world.

US real estate is almost perfect for that sort of thing.

[Maltaran]

21 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Shady Panamanian companies aren't really necessary.

We regularly joke that this is the tallest money laundry in the world.

US real estate is almost perfect for that sort of thing.

There's plenty of suspicions around the higher end of the London property market as well.

[maarsen]

7 hours ago, sologdin said:

even assuming that the metaphorical content of corruption signifies in this context, probably safe to say that items such as violations of the rome statute and the decease of ~8M minor children per annum from prevantable disease supersede it on the hierarchy of global problems.

Sometimes corruption does lead to preventable  deaths. I work in a hospital implicated in a corruption scandal where O.R.'s and isolation rooms were built in such a way as to be dysfunctional. Those responsible were sacked, eventually.  Now more health-care dollars need to be spent to bring these rooms up to standard.

[Fragile Bird]

2 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Shady Panamanian companies aren't really necessary.

We regularly joke that this is the tallest money laundry in the world.

US real estate is almost perfect for that sort of thing.

Oh my.  I haven't been to NYC in a decade.  What building is that?  It is rather cool looking.

9 hours ago, sologdin said:

even assuming that the metaphorical content of corruption signifies in this context, probably safe to say that items such as violations of the rome statute and the decease of ~8M minor children per annum from prevantable disease supersede it on the hierarchy of global problems.

Talking heads on the television are claiming that the estimated loss of taxes on hidden money is $32 Trillion annually.  While governments around the world are notorious for wasting tax dollars, if even half of it was collected, even a quarter of it, and half of that was wasted, that's a lot of money that could be used in helping solve serious problems.

[The Anti-Targ]

I disagree. Corruption is merely a symptom of a deeper problem, hence calling corruption the biggest problem is like saying a bad cough is your biggest problem, when the bad cough is actually due to the fact you have lung cancer. There's no point in trying to reduce your coughing unless you also start treating the cancer. Corruption is the worst symptom of a socio-economic cancer. But you need to figure out what that cancer is if you want to get rid of corruption.

[sologdin]

4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Talking heads on the television are claiming that the estimated loss of taxes on hidden money is $32 Trillion annually.  While governments around the world are notorious for wasting tax dollars, if even half of it was collected, even a quarter of it, and half of that was wasted, that's a lot of money that could be used in helping solve serious problems.

they're crazy, the talking heads. GWP 2014 was $108T.  Was therefore the total tax obligation even $32T?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 hours ago, maarsen said:

Sometimes corruption does lead to preventable  deaths. I work in a hospital implicated in a corruption scandal where O.R.'s and isolation rooms were built in such a way as to be dysfunctional. Those responsible were sacked, eventually.  Now more health-care dollars need to be spent to bring these rooms up to standard.

The 2022 World Cup is calling out to you........

[Lyanna Stark]

On 2016-04-05 at 5:22 PM, Tears of Lys said:

True.  But I was expanding on the idea of Corruption (with a capital C) being one of the world's biggest problems.  All of us have the seeds of it within us.  The bigger the stakes, the bigger the opportunity to have this seed take root and grow into something quite ugly. 

I'm sure that if you spoke with some of the decision-makers at these companies, they'd give you quite good reasons (to them) for their actions.  And they can **always** find some way around regulations, whether it be loopholes or even bribing the regulators - who are just people with the same seeds of corruption within them. 

It's good to have information made available to us so at least we know who's doing what, but what do we do now?  How do we control it? 

 

Oh absolutely, but this sort of thing makes it more difficult, at least for people in Europe and non-US countries, to hide their wealth. Apparently Delaware and Indiana are now listed as some of the absolute top locations for shell companies, so there is that.

As for what happens now? The Icelandic prime minister seems like he is about to resign, Cameron in the UK is having some issues. One of the largest Scandinavian banks, previously part nationalised during the banking crisis, is in the spotlight and needs to explain why it was managing some 4000 shell companies for rich people.

Not that I ever expect the ruleset for rich people to be the same as for poor people, but now it has become more visible just how extreme it is. The more visible it gets, then maybe eventually we get political change. It is unfortunately the only way. Not that I think it will solve everything, far from it. Once we get the huge trade agreements in place where corporations can easily sue countries, then we're royally fucked, but who knows? I'm just thinking, there is a limit to how much big money can steamroll people. Or I hope so, at least.

[Guest]

On 4/4/2016 at 4:49 PM, Fragile Bird said:

I wondered about the lack of American names on the list.

Is this because of:

1.   Americans didn't use this firm?  or

2.   There will be another release of information, dedicated to Americans? or

3.   It was the CIA that hacked the law firm's records and did the information dump, and they weren't interested in embarrassing Americans at this point in time?

 The Justice Department has expressed alot of interest.  Already alot of reports of rich guys hiding money in divorces or settler3ments

[Commodore]

reading the hysteria you'd think minimizing one's tax bill was on par with murder

[Jo498]

No, it's on par with theft, roughly. Everybody else has to pay higher taxes because some people manage to pay far less than what would be due.

Of course, some of the tax evaders and money launderers do have blood on their hands because it's money from drug or human trafficking. But I do no think in such a case the money laundering is considered to be worse than the drug trade.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Most US corporations use Delaware as a place that has remarkable good tax structures for them to form shell companies, why go offshore. For private individuals ...well, I dont really know. Maybe the Cayman islands are a better option.