Doran and Dorne in Season 6

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, Mayura said:

Why do show runners "loose time" on tertiary characters they either created or developed? I guess that would be because they allow them to express their creativity a bit more? (whether that's good or bad, it is quite logical for show runners to want to develop their own characters when they are adapting someone else's story. Some of the characters they created - thinking mostly about Karsi - were interesting enough). 

I instantly loved Karsi. And was pissed when she died to protect her children just because she saw dead children.

They lose time because as they say, and as viewers say, there isn't enough time to give every detail to every character. And also there is the fact that there isn't enough tv time to show everything in each storyline. So to invent something like M & GW is, in fact, the dreaded filler we hear complaints about. They have nothing to do with the end game and take away precious tv minutes that eat into the backstory of more prominent "game" players like Doran. If the series was running longer than 7.5ish seasons, and we had that time, or even if we had 2-hour season finales, then sure, develop things like M&GW because then it wouldn't take away from the main plot.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

Missandei and GW:

 

Oh, lawdy! That eyebrow wiggle

[Ruhail]

2 hours ago, Rhollo said:

How about Roose, the man they are actually up against ?

I hear hes on the loose. 

[DireDoodle]

10 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It is not that her nakedness is shocking, it is just that it serves no purpose other than voyeurism. And this scene is out of character for the hand of the queen. I have zero issue with naked bodies, I don't even censor the sights from my 13 year old son, but it has to serve a purpose.

 

I assumed the point of having her naked was to show that Gray Worm, a eunuch, was physically (somehow) attracted to her.  Although hinted at already I think they wanted to make sure we didn't miss it.

Anyway, she hasn't been naked since.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I agree. At least they haven't insisted on it like they insist on tell us Loras is gay. We get it. Gay men have sex with other gay men. We got it the first time.

[The Snark of Winterfell]

16 hours ago, Miley the Monstrous said:

To be fair this comes straight from the books. Doran says as much to the SS and they just don't care. 

Your right, man do I hate Dorne

[HairGrowsBack]

You know what would have been great ? Instead of making a romance up , focus and devote time on actual canonical romances . Just a crazy thought of mine.

11 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

I agree. At least they haven't insisted on it like they insist on tell us Loras is gay. We get it. Gay men have sex with other gay men. We got it the first time.

And did you know Oberyn was bi ? I mean, that he had sex not just with women, but with men as well ? Did you ?

[DireDoodle]

17 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

And did you know Oberyn was bi ? I mean, that he had sex not just with women, but with men as well ? Did you ?

And Varys doesn't have a c**k.  I keep forgetting. 

[Dizzy Walker]

maybe this does not matter at all, but for the story line for Ellaria,  Ellaria is a bastard of the house Uller,  and the Wiki of Fire and Ice has this to say about that house. I don't remember reading the quote but its from A Feast of Crows chapter 40 princess in the tower.. 

House Uller of Hellholt is one of the great noble houses in Dorne. Their keep, the Hellholt, is in the middle of the Dornish desert, and they are reputed to be impulsive and unpredictable. A Dornish saying is "Half of the Ullers are half-mad, and the other half are worse."^[1] 

could explain a little, meaning instead of a Mad Queen, we have a Mad princes's common law sister-in-law? who kills said prince so now becomes the Mad women who was the mother of the cursed kinslaying dead prince's nieces bastards to the dead prince's dead brother who legally died in trying to avenge their long dead sister who was married to the then future king of the Iron Throne but died trying to defend his Mad father king from a Baratheon man whose line is now technecally also dead but not legally.........?   whew...that's simple

I just hope if the Sand Snakes stay around, the actresses get a little more weapons training and have better film to edit to make them look a little better when they fight, instead of looking like they are a group of college students on their 3rd class in a women self defense class. 

 

[PCK]

The Dorne changes highlight what's wrong with the changes the show makes in general. What's left out versus what's added often doesn't make sense. 

They could have made their Dorne plot alot less stupid by just having Doran imprisoned. 

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

40 minutes ago, PCK said:

The Dorne changes highlight what's wrong with the changes the show makes in general. What's left out versus what's added often doesn't make sense. 

They could have made their Dorne plot alot less stupid by just having Doran imprisoned. 

Yes. Although from a television perspective, I suppose imprisonment might be less shocking? I don't know... as far as I'm concerned, I completely agree. At least if he was imprisoned the 'revenge' part wouldn't be completely ludicrous. At this point the E and the SS have killed two Martells in order to avenge the death of two Martells, which is a little odd to anyone paying attention to the story. Kinslaying is also an issue in show universe as well, at least if my memory is correct, and has been mentioned before. This doesn't mean that the SS can't kill their cousin and be kinslayers, but it seems strange how readily Dorne (or the six? four? guardsmen that we see) stands behind them. Let's be honest thought, the whole Dornish plot is a mess to anyone paying attention too closely. 

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

1 hour ago, Edd Tollett's One Vote said:

Let's be honest thought, the whole Dornish plot is a mess to anyone paying attention too closely at all. 

FTFY.

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

2 hours ago, Fat Pink Master said:

FTFY.

Lol. Point taken, but I meant relative to how closely we probably should look at the Dornish arc. If I was smarter, I'd have been skipping those scenes for a while. 

[Maid So Fair]

6 hours ago, Mayura said:

I do not personally think Dorne was well managed in the show either. 

But season 5 showed the growing opposition between Ellaria and Doran's views on the matter. It introduces the fact Ellaria and the SS want to use Myrcella to act against the Lannisters even without Doran's support. And their initial plan is foiled with Jaime's arrival in Dorne and Doran's decision to protect Myrcella against their plot. Ellaria already threatened Doran in s05. And end of s05 show that, ultimately, Ellaria's plan for war is coming to fruition. Season 6 episode 1 was just showing the outcome of the pre-existing conflict and setting up the new Dornish order and loyalty. 

Could they have done it better? Probably. But from a viewers only standpoint, it makes sense: they've announced in S05 that Ellaria and the SS wanted to overthrow Doran, and they eventually did. I think it is mostly nonsensical to books readers, but Unsullied don't seem to think it was that nonsensical, nor do they give a f*** about Dorne, that being said.

This is completely irrelevant to my point though, because you are using internal in-stort arguments to respond to an external one. Regardless of the merits of the actual storyline (and it has none), if was their decision to include it in the first place, just as it was their decision to adapt it the way they did. This applies to Dorne more tan to any other plotline because we know for a fact they weren't going to include Dorne at all until Cogman came up with the idea of sending Jaime there and because the Dornish plotline is the show is a completely original creation that bears no resemblance to its book counterpart. As you say there was no conflict inDorne until they took pains to introduce it in S5.  Excusing the travesty that was its resolution because they 'have go condense plotlines' (that they created and chose to include) makes as sense as praising them for the ingenious decision to burn the magically appearing Meereenese fleet because it solves a plothole (that they also created). Everything in this plotline is on them.

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

Sorry to repeat myself, but what D&D did to their own created Dorne storyline is exactly what happened to Poochie in the Simpsons:

"Brave"? "Ingenious"? Pathetic would be the word.

[Gneisenau]

doesn't the whole Doran assassination feel so un feudal ? I just find it hard to believe the guards really care so much about Elia being killed that they would stand by and let Doran die

[lancerman]

4 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

This is completely irrelevant to my point though, because you are using internal in-stort arguments to respond to an external one. Regardless of the merits of the actual storyline (and it has none), if was their decision to include it in the first place, just as it was their decision to adapt it the way they did. This applies to Dorne more tan to any other plotline because we know for a fact they weren't going to include Dorne at all until Cogman came up with the idea of sending Jaime there and because the Dornish plotline is the show is a completely original creation that bears no resemblance to its book counterpart. As you say there was no conflict inDorne until they took pains to introduce it in S5.  Excusing the travesty that was its resolution because they 'have go condense plotlines' (that they created and chose to include) makes as sense as praising them for the ingenious decision to burn the magically appearing Meereenese fleet because it solves a plothole (that they also created). Everything in this plotline is on them.

 

Dorne plotline in the books: Everyone thinking Doran is a docile pacifist, and Arianne enacting a crazy nonsensical plan involving Myrcella that fails. Only for at the end of everything for Doran to reveal his master plan. Which we know now can only be accomplished with Aegon.

Dorne plotline in the books: Everyone thinking Doran is a docile pacifist, the sandsnakes having a nonsensical plan to kill Myrcella that fails. Only for at the end of everything for Doran to seemingly put a stop to it, until it is revealed they succeeded.

The variable: Aegon not existing means Doran can't have his grand plan, and they can't go after the Lannister's through his plan. Which fundamentally changes his character, and makes him the docile pacifist everyone accuses him of being.

The common endpoint: Everything still ends with Dorne going to war with the Lannisters as revenge for Elia and (more so in the show) Oberyn.

Put it this way, once they dropped Aegon they needed to gut out the reason for Dorne attacking the Lannister's and replace it with something else. Most people are just going to have to accept that in the show Doran isn't a schemer behind the scenes and was just what he looked to be at face value. This is all even more abundant when you realize the two key components to his plan (Quentyn and Arianne) are both non existant in the show. Cutting Aegon changes everything for everyone involved in Dorne.

And quite frankly, if Aegon turns out to be a fake in the books, it might not be the worst decision in the world.

[The Arthur Smith]

10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I instantly loved Karsi. And was pissed when she died to protect her children just because she saw dead children.

Well it's not just cause she saw dead children though. She couldn't bring herself to kill her children despite them turned into White Walkers already. Her role is to protect those children and the fact that she failed her job, it doesn't help.

But whatever, Karsi died and i agreed on the fact that she's a fantastic character even when she appear in one episode only. Though i would like to see her actress as Val.

[The Fattest Leech]

37 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Well it's not just cause she saw dead children though. She couldn't bring herself to kill her children despite them turned into White Walkers already. Her role is to protect those children and the fact that she failed her job, it doesn't help.

But whatever, Karsi died and i agreed on the fact that she's a fantastic character even when she appear in one episode only. Though i would like to see her actress as Val.

Are you saying those white walker kids were hers?

Those weren't her kids. They were random kids from someone else. Her two girls were put on a boat At the beginning of that scene and taken to the larger ship. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=19ztrmxm9hs

[The Arthur Smith]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

Are you saying those white walker kids were hers?

Those weren't her kids. They were random kids from someone else. Her two girls were put on a boat At the beginning of that scene and taken to the larger ship. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=19ztrmxm9hs

I know. But Karsi is like a motherly figure and she wouldn't bring herself to kill a kid whether it's hers or not and whether they turn into White Walkers.