Sir Hedge of Hog Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Hey All Read this morning that Jamie has saved countless thousands with king slaying and the fall of riverrun. His redemption arc is painting him in a new light and several websites claim the starks honour has killed and maimed thousands. while he starks did not start the war of the five kings, and they have made some poor decisions, they are now being portrayed by some as the villains of the piece! Would Ned have killed the mad king? I am a Stark fan, but the lannisters and others have played to win, as cersei states.... So are the lannisters the new heroes? Jaime the new pin up boy for a peaceful westeros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 If the Lannisters were such heroes, why didn't they just gave up KL against Stannis? They killed (and lost) thousands of people there too. Just because they don't have honour and saved a lot of lives by murdering important people in a scheme, doesn't mean they are heroes all of a sudden. Edit: Pretty much all characters in aGoT are called 'grey' (not necessarily good or evil). Jamie is pretty much the perfect example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 as I understand the story, for Jaime, all his life he wanted to do some knightly heroic actions because he wants the people to forget the "kingslayer" label, until now he didn't do it because the story is going against him, and let's no forget Tyrion : the embodiment of the favoritism in the story, GRRM is really bad as author in hiding his favoritism to some characters in the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfin Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Honor is what got Ned killed. Robb went to war over it rightly so and got set up by the Lanisters who cut his head off too and murdered Cat. Jon is uber honorable. Don't really understand where you are coming from here my man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Heroes? No. The main characters? Well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaginepageant Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I don't believe the Lannisters as a whole are or will ever be the heroes of the series. That being said, Jaime himself is most definitely a hero, not only for killing Aerys and saving the entirety of King's Landing, but for keeping the truth of it a secret and thus sacrificing his own honor to continue to protect King's Landing from anyone else who might seek to use the hidden wildfire. Great personal sacrifice for the greater good is, in my opinion, a far more heroic act than holding onto honor for honor's sake, like Ned Stark was wont to do, regardless of how it might've harmed others. Sadly, Jaime's heroism isn't likely to ever be known by anyone but Brienne. As for who the heroes of the series are, I think it'll be whoever defeats the Others in the end. Daenerys and Jon seem to be the front runners for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Louis II (KLII) Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 No. GRRM mentioned that he had some influence from the War of the Roses to wrote ASoIsF. The war was between The YORK and LANCASTER. Any similarity between STARK and LANNISTER? Edd, Jon, Rob, Cat are only characters in the show that are not "gray" as was mentioned before. It is crystal clear that if there are not the hero they are the example of goodness in the show. Their antagonists, cannot be the heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes yes yes, we have heard a hundred thousand times that everybody is grey on Game of Thrones. That doesn't mean they are all in the middle between white and black. And the Lannisters are definitely closer to black. The Lannisters aren't Jaime and his redemption arc. They are Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey too and you could hardly call them heroes. Even Saint Tyrion isn't as perfect as the most imperfect Stark. The inpeccable and innocent Starks are the heroes of the series who suffer the most because other houses are selfish, dishonorable and ambitious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 8 hours ago, Tianzi said: Heroes? No. The main characters? Well... Well, one of them is. First, people should understand that it wasn't Stark honor that killed thousands (remember that moment when Ned sacrificed his honor and proclaimed Joffrey a true heir?). The war started because of Lannisters, the peace was unattainable because of what Lannisters did and due to Tywin (Lannister)'s actions diplomacy of Westeros has sustained heavy damages. Like was said countless times on book forums, Red wedding today perhaps saved thousands, but killed millions in the future. Second, we know how GRRM created ASOIAF - as some sort of cross-generational saga. That said, following that, it is not hard to conclude who the heroes of the story are - Jon, Dany, Tyrion, 3 Stark children. At the end of the day, those are the heroes of ASOIAF. 8 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said: No. GRRM mentioned that he had some influence from the War of the Roses to wrote ASoIsF. The war was between The YORK and LANCASTER. Any similarity between STARK and LANNISTER? York/Lancaster fight is more comparable to Blackfyre Rebellion and of course, Robert's Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoyeTwenty Boston Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Trump/Lannister 2016. "We will build a great wall -- and nobody builds walls better than us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisikli123 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Simple Definition of hero : a person who is admired for great or brave acts or fine qualities : a person who is greatly admired The chief male character in a book, play, or film, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize: the hero of Kipling’s story We can assume that not all the main characters are heroes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 So what I could see is Jamie killing Cersie and being a broken wreck of a man. Then in the final battle he pulls a Han Solo and leads the Lannister troops into battle against the WW's. I feel as though there has been a very deliberate set up with Jamie since Clash. He will factor into the final outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 14 hours ago, RhaeBee said: Yes yes yes, we have heard a hundred thousand times that everybody is grey on Game of Thrones. That doesn't mean they are all in the middle between white and black. And the Lannisters are definitely closer to black. The Lannisters aren't Jaime and his redemption arc. They are Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey too and you could hardly call them heroes. Even Saint Tyrion isn't as perfect as the most imperfect Stark. The inpeccable and innocent Starks are the heroes of the series who suffer the most because other houses are selfish, dishonorable and ambitious. And here I always thought gray meant somewhere between white and black. If you mean precisely in the center at 50% gray, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 15 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said: No. GRRM mentioned that he had some influence from the War of the Roses to wrote ASoIsF. The war was between The YORK and LANCASTER. Any similarity between STARK and LANNISTER? Edd, Jon, Rob, Cat are only characters in the show that are not "gray" as was mentioned before. It is crystal clear that if there are not the hero they are the example of goodness in the show. Their antagonists, cannot be the heroes. Must disagree with especially Cat. She is as grey as it gets. How about how she treated Jon? Or how she set Jaime free despite explicit orders from Robb? Or Robb for that matter, who broke his word against the Freys marrying Jayne Westering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I think whatever's going to happen, will happen. And the characters(and readers for that matter) will all having varying opinions on who is and isn't a hero when the dust settles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjmarsh Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Jaime is going to head north. He is going to have a party with the Frey's on his way and extingish that house. He isn't going back to Kingslanding in the book or show. Everyone is heading north now(Well, Bran and Friends are going south, but everyone else is heading north. . . Well, Arya is heading west i guess). That's where everyone needs to be, that's where everyone is heading. New thought, possible that Brienne and Pod get picked up by the Frey's and Jaime comes to the rescue. The show might swap out Blackfishy to the LSH role. That whole off screen death kinda bothered me, but I suppose, good enough for Stannis good enough for Blackfishy. Either way, Frey's are doomed. The "Bro's wit no Banner" have picked up Ash aka Sandor and are heading north to battle The Army Of Darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonTheBlack Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Jaime and Tyrion are definitely heroes. Tyrion is probably one of the primary protagonists of the series along with Jon and Dany. Jaime will probably die doing something heroic for the realm I am pretty sure that House Lannister as a whole will be obliterated (assuming the theory about Tyrion is true). Casterly Rock will be destroyed. Rains of Castamere, I think, although written about Tywin's earlier victories, is also foreshadowing the fate of House Lannister. They will indeed pay their debts, for all the death and destruction they have caused. There will probably be a scene in the show, and Tyrion chapter in the book, where he visits Casterly Rock near the end of the story, with the rain falling on an empty and ruined stronghold, and dream about rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 7 hours ago, Illiterati said: And here I always thought gray meant somewhere between white and black. If you mean precisely in the center at 50% gray, I agree. Yes, obviously, that is what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpymaster Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 They are just people who are fighting for survival. We are seeing the story from a stark's perspective. If you were tywin wat would you do if stannis took up arms against you..?? Sit and watch?? Certainlythey are not heroes but they ain't villains either. It is the decisions that individual makes that defines them. But Joff was clear stupid. Jaime is just a regular badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draevan13 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I wouldn't say Jaime is a full-on hero. I'd say he's an anti-hero, or on his way to that at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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