Child of Three & One to Love

[Maxxine]

So the house of the undying visions have been discussed to death, but there are two things I've just noticed and I haven't seen discussed. 1) Dany is called child of three. What is that about? It occurs to me that later she's called daughter of death after references to Viserys, Rhaego and Rhaegar. So maybe child of three is a metaphorical reference to the daughter of death indicating that these deaths shaped who she is as a person or something like that. But I don't know. Rhaegar's wouldn't seem to fit this because while she obviously admires the thought of Rhaegar, it's hard for me to believe Rhaegar's death would shape her this way especially when compared to the deaths of Viserys and Rhaego. It seemed like if this was supposed to be the interpretation Drogo's death would've been used. 

2) When going through the set of 3s, the preposition used in the set stays the same except in the case of the fire you must light. It's one for life, one for death, and one to love. The change in preposition has to be significant and has to indicate some difference between the first two fires and the last one, right? No way it was an accident. Maybe the third fire is symbolic instead of literal fires that the first one was and second one might be. The only set that "to" is used in the three mounts set, if that means anything.

Thoughts?

[GloubieBoulga]

1 hour ago, Maxxine said:

1) Dany is called child of three. What is that about? It occurs to me that later she's called daughter of death after references to Viserys, Rhaego and Rhaegar. So maybe child of three is a metaphorical reference to the daughter of death indicating that these deaths shaped who she is as a person or something like that. But I don't know. Rhaegar's wouldn't seem to fit this because while she obviously admires the thought of Rhaegar, it's hard for me to believe Rhaegar's death would shape her this way especially when compared to the deaths of Viserys and Rhaego. It seemed like if this was supposed to be the interpretation Drogo's death would've been used. 

I think it is connected to the "prince promised" prophetie : Rhaegar, Viserys and Rhaego are all three descendants of Jaehaerys, and one of his descendants was "prophesized" to be the "prince promised". Rhaegar, Viserys and Rhaego dead, the only one who stay alive is Daenerys. In others words, after their death, she bears the prophetie. Drogo hasn't Jaehaerys's blood, but his marriage with Dany and his pyre permit her to give birth to the dragons. 

[Bowen 747]

The Child of Three

1. Visenya, Aegon, & Rhaenys built the Targaryen ruling dynasty.
2. 3 headed dragon is the sigil of the Targaryens
3. Daenerys is the third child of Aerys and Rhaella who lived through childhood into adulthood.
4. She has three dragons.
5. She conquered three cities in slaver's bay.
6. She has three Dothraki bodyguards
7. She has 3 ladies in waiting (Irri, Jhiqui, Doreah)

It just means Daenerys is a Targaryen.  The number three signifies house Targaryen.  Child of Three means a daughter of House Targaryen.  It's her identity as a Targaryen and specifically as Daenerys Targaryen.

"one to love"

Fire for life brought the dragons back from stone.  The eggs were so old they had turned to stone.  This is in fulfillment of the prophecy that Azor Ahai will wake dragons from stone.

Fire for death is the opposite.  Perhaps it is the fire to destroy the walking undead zombies.  Her vision of burning the zombies at the Trident would support this. 

Fire to love means give birth to a child that she will love.  Fire can mean dragon.  Dragon can mean Targaryen.  Fire then can mean a Targaryen.  So lighting a fire can mean having a Targaryen baby.  "To love" is a clue that she will live through the childbirth and love her baby.  This should not come as a surprise because Dany is young and she has plenty of childbearing years left. 

 

[GloubieBoulga]

2 hours ago, Maxxine said:

2) When going through the set of 3s, the preposition used in the set stays the same except in the case of the fire you must light. It's one for life, one for death, and one to love. The change in preposition has to be significant and has to indicate some difference between the first two fires and the last one, right? No way it was an accident. Maybe the third fire is symbolic instead of literal fires that the first one was and second one might be. The only set that "to" is used in the three mounts set, if that means anything.

Thoughts?

I interprete this like this : this is a part from a triplet that indicate how Dany became a head of dragon// Azor Ahai reborn//prince promised. Each time, the 3 resume her way from the birth of the dragons to the moment where she reunite with Drogon (= from her last chapter in AGOT to her last in ADWD). 
So-"one (fire) for life" = drogo's pyre

- "one for death" = the sack of Astapor, where she use the dragon fire.

- "one to love" = the dragon that she will/has to love (in french, I would translate "à aimer") = the fire isn't here a instrument like in the two others propositions, but the "object" that she love. I don't know if I'm clear, but this is how I understand it

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Child of three could also refer to her parents plus Viserys being a father figure to her.

Not sure about the change from "for" to "to" but the mounts are fairly easy to understand. One to bed = riding her silver to the place where her marriage was consummated. One to dread = riding Drogon into battle. One to love = either Drogon is dead or she can't ride when she's pregnant; in the case of the latter, love could be love for her child.

[Scorpion92]

2 hours ago, Maxxine said:

So the house of the undying visions have been discussed to death, but there are two things I've just noticed and I haven't seen discussed. 1) Dany is called child of three. What is that about? It occurs to me that later she's called daughter of death after references to Viserys, Rhaego and Rhaegar. So maybe child of three is a metaphorical reference to the daughter of death indicating that these deaths shaped who she is as a person or something like that. But I don't know. Rhaegar's wouldn't seem to fit this because while she obviously admires the thought of Rhaegar, it's hard for me to believe Rhaegar's death would shape her this way especially when compared to the deaths of Viserys and Rhaego. It seemed like if this was supposed to be the interpretation Drogo's death would've been used. 

2) When going through the set of 3s, the preposition used in the set stays the same except in the case of the fire you must light. It's one for life, one for death, and one to love. The change in preposition has to be significant and has to indicate some difference between the first two fires and the last one, right? No way it was an accident. Maybe the third fire is symbolic instead of literal fires that the first one was and second one might be. The only set that "to" is used in the three mounts set, if that means anything.

Thoughts?

2) I think the fires to light must all be associated proving her Unburnt title.

One for life - Drogo's pyre, where she did not burn, and three dragons were born.

One for death - it has not happened yet, whatever we will witness in Winds of Winter in Vaes Dothrak, I think she will come out unburned from some set of event and become the khaleesi of Dothrakis - and we know that Dothrakis are agents of doom, destruction, and most importantly, death.

One to love - this is very debatable, but I believe that it will be connected closely to Jon Snow and Battle of the Dawn. I am of the camp that thinks they will be on opposite sides of this battle, and that Jon will prove to everyone he is Targaryen by mounting Drogon, either through his Targ blood or warging. And once he is atop Drogon, he will light Dany on fire, which will not harm her, just like in previous two attempts. Which will make Jon see she is just as special and start to fall in love with her. Hence, the "fire TO love". Her staying Unburnt will make Jon TO love her. But that is IMHO, of course.

[Good Guy Garlan]

My guess about the Child of Three thing:

AA/PtwP is prophesied to be a child of 3, meaning one of 3 siblings. At first Rhaegar thought it was him, but as the years went by and it seemed Aerys and Rhaella were unlikely to have another kid, he decided the PtwP would be a kid of his. 

That's the reason for the "There has to be one more" line. Rhaegar thought he literally had to have 3 kids to fulfill the prophecy. When Elia couldn't give birth to the third one, he went to Lyanna. 

So there are 2 sets of 3 kids descendants from Aerys and Rhaella:

Rhagar, Viserys and Dany 

And

Rhaenys, Aegon and Jon

If we accept fAegon, then it stands to reason that the PtwP can only be Dany or Jon.

Except that Aerys couldn't keep it his pants, so he had more than 3 kids, either Tyrion or Jaime and Cersei. Either way, he screwed up (or rather fulfilled?) the prophecy.

Therefore, Jon is the only Child of Three, and the Undying didn't know what the fuck they were talking about or they had a bit too much nightshade. 

[Frey family reunion]

Superfecundation

[Lost Melnibonean]

Daenerys finally comes upon the Undying...

Quote

. . . mother of dragons . . . came a voice, part whisper and part moan . . . . dragons . . . dragons . . . dragons . . . other voices echoed in the gloom.

That's three dragons.

Quote

Dany listened to the silence. None of them are breathing, and they do not move, and those eyes see nothing. Could it be that the Undying Ones were dead?

 

Her answer was a whisper as thin as a mouse's whisker. . . . we live . . . live . . . live . . . it sounded. Myriad other voices whispered echoes . . . . And know . . . know . . . know . . . know . . .

That's three lives, one know, and three echoes of the know.

Quote

"I have come for the gift of truth," Dany said. "In the long hall, the things I saw . . . were they true visions, or lies? Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?"

 

. . . the shape of shadows . . . morrows not yet made . . . drink from the cup of ice . . . drink from the cup of fire . . .

 

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . .

Note that Daenerys was the mother of three dragons.

Quote

"Three?" She did not understand.

 

. . . three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. . . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . The whispers became a swirling song. . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

So, three fires, three mounts, and three treasons, the last of each for love. That's nine fires, mounts, and treasons.

Quote

"I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me."

 

. . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . .

 

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a womans name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

So, after Daenerys asks for help to understand these nine fires, mounts, and treasons, she sees nine more visions grouped into three sets of three. It seems likely that the nine fires, mounts, and treasons relate to the nine visions that follow her plea for help in understanding.

As to the mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . and mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . sequence, recall when Daenerys walked into the pyre, between the hatching of the second and third eggs, as she heard Jorah calling to her...

Quote

No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, dont you see? Dont you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

Daenerys X, Game

The only thing missing from the pyre scene is slayer of lies. But that seems understandable, no? We generally understand slayer of lies to mean eater of red herring, dont we? Ironically, Daenerys herself is the biggest red herring in the tale, since the prince who was promised is Jon Snow, son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

The first fire she lit was Drogo’s pyre... to give life to her dragons. I believe the show spoiled the second of three fires Daenerys will light. The third fire will be her funeral pyre after she dies giving birth to Aegon's child, and she will return to Drogo.

The first mount she rides to bed is her silver to the stream, on her wedding night with Drogo. The second mount to dread is Drogon. The third will be the smoky stallion she rides from her funeral pyre to Drogo in the Night Lands. 

Illyrio will betray her for the blood of the Blackfyre; Tyrion will betray her for all the gold of Casterly Rock; and Aegon will betray her for love of Arianne. 

Viserys is identified in the first vision of the three triplets. The second is most likely a morrow not made--her never born son whose place was taken by The Dragon. The third alludes to the union of ice and fire that leads to Jon Snow. Viserys died, Rhaego died, and Rhaegar died. Each of those deaths shaped Daenerys, so that she is the daughter death. (If Rhaegar had killed Robert...)

I think the lies she must slay are the three men currently working to take the Iron Throne. 

I think the three visions in the last triplet refer to The three men she will love, not necessarily wed. 

Or not. 

[Curled Finger]

I'm not so sure about this child of 3 interpretation.  Rhaella and Aerys conceived 10 children, 5 of whom lived at least 6 months or long enough to be named.   Adding Daeron & Aegon to Dany's siblings, she is a child of 5.  Daeron lived 6 months and Aegon was born in 272 and died in 273--it could have been weeks or nearly a year.   Either way these brothers were named and drew breath.  I'm beginning to think the Undying visions are designed to point Dany to Jon and others.  Jon really is a child of 3 (and of 6 sort of).  She is the Mother of 3 (or 4 depending on if Rhaego was a live birth).  It's very complicated.

[Roswell]

"Child of Three" means she is a descendant of Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys.  House Targaryen is the three-headed dragon.

"Daughter of Death" is in reference to the three kings that had to die in order for Dany to inherit her kingdoms. King Aerys 2, King Viserys 3, and Khal Drogo.  She will rule the Dothraki and Westeros.  Depending on whether you believe R + L = Dany, this could refer to the deaths of the three King's Guard at the Tower of Joy, three pure men sacrificed to bring about her birth.  Daughter of Death is earned again because she is the daughter of doomed Valyria, arguably making her the rightful heir to all of the lands that previously made up the Valyrian Freehold.

"Three fires must you light" are executions that she will carry out to punish the perpetrators of the three treasons. 

"Slayer of Lies" could be related to the treasons.

The fire to love is the prize from the third execution.  Bride of Fire could mean she will marry a Targaryen.  However, it could simply mean she will marry.  She is Fire.  The first execution gave her three dragons.  Making her the Mother of Dragons.  The second execution will earn her the role of Slayer of Lies.  This is related to fake Aegon trying to pass off as the Targaryen heir.  Perhaps the perpetrators will be executed by fire. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 2/25/2017 at 3:40 PM, Good Guy Garlan said:

<snip

 the Undying didn't know what the fuck they were talking about or they had a bit too much nightshade. 

I like this interpretation.

[Frey family reunion]

Are we 100% sure the Undying were talking about Dany as a child of 3?  After all Drogon was also with Dany.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Are we 100% sure the Undying were talking about Dany as a child of 3?  After all Drogon was also with Dany.

Oh snap!  Drogon is a child of three!  I like it.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Are we 100% sure the Undying were talking about Dany as a child of 3?  After all Drogon was also with Dany.

Is Drogon going to light three fires, know three betrayals, ride three mounts, etc?

Because that could get fun. 

Let's see, he lit one fire in Astapor.

He might see chaining up his brothers as a betrayal.

And maybe it got mixed up and he's supposed to have three riders. But that would be said for him to lose his mommy.

[maudisdottir]

23 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I'm not so sure about this child of 3 interpretation.  Rhaella and Aerys conceived 10 children, 5 of whom lived at least 6 months or long enough to be named.   Adding Daeron & Aegon to Dany's siblings, she is a child of 5.  Daeron lived 6 months and Aegon was born in 272 and died in 273--it could have been weeks or nearly a year.   Either way these brothers were named and drew breath.  I'm beginning to think the Undying visions are designed to point Dany to Jon and others.  Jon really is a child of 3 (and of 6 sort of).  She is the Mother of 3 (or 4 depending on if Rhaego was a live birth).  It's very complicated.

"Child of three" doesn't mean she's one of three, it means she comes from three (ie descended from three).  In English you would never say "I'm a child of three" if you meant "I'm one of three children" or "youngest of three".

[Castellan]

I just wanted to say that the most obvious meaning of daughter of death is simply that her mother died having her (and her father was already dead). She certainly has a lot to do with death after that (Viserys, Drogo, Rhaegar, Astapor....) but that seems the fundamental reason.

By the way, I have only just really thought about the fact that Dany, Jon and Tyrion all have mothers who die having them. They are all children of death. Since I buy into the Tyrion as chimera theory (he originated as two eggs one fertilised by Tywin and one by Aerys) perhaps there is something special in their make-up that actually kills their mothers....and I presume they all have special skills that will be needed to defeat the others.

 

[GloubieBoulga]

43 minutes ago, Castellan said:

I just wanted to say that the most obvious meaning of daughter of death is simply that her mother died having her (and her father was already dead). She certainly has a lot to do with death after that (Viserys, Drogo, Rhaegar, Astapor....) but that seems the fundamental reason.

Yes, but in the text, "Daughter of death" goes with 3 visions, the expression resumes the 3 : 

Quote

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a womans name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . 

We recognize Viserys (Daenerys recognizes him without doubt), and then a dothraki with Targaryen's hairs, so the reader can deducts that it's Rhaego if he wasn't dead; and to finish, the reader can recognize Rhaegar dying at the battle of the Trident (the rubies in Rhaegar's armor are confirmed several time in the series, and also the fact that Robert stroke him in the chest ^^).

Now, why these 3 are associated ? They are all from Dany's blood. And what else ? 

They were all "prince promised" in a certain way : heir of a crown/a kingdom, or even linked to the prince promised/Azor Ahai prophecy (=descendant of king Jaehaerys II), or both in the same time. I choose the association with Azor Ahai/prince promised prophecy, because "daughter of death" is also "mother of dragons" : the come together in the text, and the dragons are in AA's prophecy : AA awakes the dragons "out of stone, amidst smoke and salt". And literaly, that is exactly what happened during Drogo's pyre. 

[The Commentator]

6 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

Yes, but in the text, "Daughter of death" goes with 3 visions, the expression resumes the 3 : 

We recognize Viserys (Daenerys recognizes him without doubt), and then a dothraki with Targaryen's hairs, so the reader can deducts that it's Rhaego if he wasn't dead; and to finish, the reader can recognize Rhaegar dying at the battle of the Trident (the rubies in Rhaegar's armor are confirmed several time in the series, and also the fact that Robert stroke him in the chest ^^).

Now, why these 3 are associated ? They are all from Dany's blood. And what else ? 

They were all "prince promised" in a certain way : heir of a crown/a kingdom, or even linked to the prince promised/Azor Ahai prophecy (=descendant of king Jaehaerys II), or both in the same time. I choose the association with Azor Ahai/prince promised prophecy, because "daughter of death" is also "mother of dragons" : the come together in the text, and the dragons are in AA's prophecy : AA awakes the dragons "out of stone, amidst smoke and salt". And literaly, that is exactly what happened during Drogo's pyre. 

Nice.  Rhaegar, Viserys, and Rhaego.  Their deaths paved the way for Dany.  Each were Targaryen heirs and potentially Azor Ahai.  Dany inherited their roles and will fulfill what those three could not.  

[Lady Blizzardborn]

17 hours ago, Castellan said:

I just wanted to say that the most obvious meaning of daughter of death is simply that her mother died having her (and her father was already dead). She certainly has a lot to do with death after that (Viserys, Drogo, Rhaegar, Astapor....) but that seems the fundamental reason.

By the way, I have only just really thought about the fact that Dany, Jon and Tyrion all have mothers who die having them. They are all children of death. Since I buy into the Tyrion as chimera theory (he originated as two eggs one fertilised by Tywin and one by Aerys) perhaps there is something special in their make-up that actually kills their mothers....and I presume they all have special skills that will be needed to defeat the others.

 

Chimerism would not do anything that would result in the death of the mother.

Rhaella had a history of difficult pregnancies. Eleven in all and only three children surviving infancy. She was only 13 or 14 when Rhaegar was born. She was 38 or 39 when Dany was born. Add in the stress of life with Aerys and she probably was not in the best condition, health-wise. We don't know exactly how long she lived after Dany was born, but it probably wasn't long.

Tyrion had an over-sized head that probably caused massive tearing and blood loss (I had those problems with my first whose head was normal size).

Lyanna undoubtedly died of puerperal fever, historically called childbed fever. Look up Jane Seymour (queen of England, not the actress) for reference.