Canon Claude

Which member of each Great House should be in charge?

18 posts in this topic

Let's go with the eight traditional great houses (Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, Tully, Arryn, Martell, Greyjoy, Tyrell) at the start of AGOT, but let's assume that King Robert and Queen Cersei just died of a sickness, leaving you as king to keep the throne safe for their children. Meanwhile, this sickness has also mysteriously killed all the other heads of the great houses (Ned Stark, Mace Tyrell, Balon Greyjoy, Tywin Lannister, Doran Martell, Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully). In an unprecedented move, the surviving families implore you, the acting ruler, to decide who the new heads of the family will be. They will accept your ruling without question, though if you pick an underage person as head, you must also choose a regent for them.

Who do you choose?

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Well, first let's distinguish what it's called when you're "in charge" of one of the main families in ASoIaF (which is also applicable to any sort of royal family in this universe, even the smaller houses and bannermen such as the Forresters). What you're referring to is simply being the sitting Lord. By this logic, and by the laws of lineage, the person who were to come next in charge would be the eldest child of whatever Lord passed away. So, for example, if suddenly Ned, Catelyn, Robb, Jon, Bran and Rickon died, well, there's not exactly any men to fill the position of "Lord" anymore, so it would actually be handed down to the eldest living daughter. They wouldn't necessarily become the "Lord of Winterfell," or "Lord of Casterly Rock," this is a situation in which they would end up becoming the one in charge. It also depends on the location of what house we're discussing because 

Spoiler

Bear Island has had all its eldest figures, who could have taken the seat of power for the Mormonts, killed. Therefore handing down the seat of power to Lyanna Mormont.

Principles could be different in terms of who takes the seat of power for each house based on location. So in reality, you can't exactly appoint the figure of power for the Great Families of Westeros. You can, however, appoint Wardens such as the Warden in the North, East, South, West and so-forth. 

Edited by Jango

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- Stark: Robb, with Cat as Regent. Or only Cat if she counts. 

- Lannister: Tyrion

- Baratheon: Myrcella, with Renly as Regent

- Tully: Edmure

- Arryn: Sweetrobin, with Yohn Royce as Regent

- Martell: Trystane, with Ellaria as Regent

- Greyjoy: Theon

- Tyrell: Garlan 

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Very contrived and convoluted scenario, but I'll bite:

Stark: Robb, with Maester Luwin and Rodrik Cassell as joint regents for the last year.

Tyrell: Willas

Baratheon: Stannis

Arryn: Harold Harding, legitimized as Harold Arryn. I send Lysa to the silent sisters and Robert to the Citadel.

Martell: Quentyn. Oberyn and Arianne are way too hot headed for my liking, and they'd be bored of ruling in a week.

Lannister: Kevan, hands down.

Tully: Edmure

Greyjoy: Theon. And since the families are being so compliant, I order Euron, Aeron, and Victarion to come to King's Landing and let Ilyn Payne take their heads.

 

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Stark: Robb, with Cat as Regent

Greyjoy: Asha (she'll struggle to get people to follow her, which means the Ironborn are divided, distracted, and weak)

Tully: Edmure

Martell: Arianne

Baratheon: Stannis

Arryn: Robert, with Yohn Royce as regent.

Tyrell: Willas 

Lannister: Tyrion

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Stark: Robb

Lannister: Tyrion

Baratheon of King's Landing: Joffrey, unless or until he's proven a bastard, Tywin as his regent

Baratheon of Dragonstone/Storm's End: Stannis

Tully: Edmure

Arryn: sadly, Sweetrobin but with a strong, court-appointed Lord Protector

Martell: Arianne

Greyjoy: Asha

Tyrell: Willas

So basically the people who are in line.

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It seems like most in this thread did not understand the OP.  

Stark: Jon.....it's a difficult choice between him and Robb.  They are probably equal as tacticians, but Jon is the better fighter and truthfully Robb was woeful when it came to politics, so Jon can't be worse.  Ser Rodrik could be regent in name but Jon is ready to rule.

Greyjoy: Asha easily.  LOL at anyone saying Theon.  Asha realizes that their ways of reaving and trying to conquer other lands by force will only lead to ruin.  She would be the best choice to ensure Greyjoy longevity.

Tyrell: Willas.  We don't really know enough about him or Garlan to know which would be better.....I get the feeling that either of them would be good.  It's amazing that an dipshit like Mace birthed such promising children.

Baratheon: Renly.  Stannis's rigidity is a problem that would make him a substandard Lord.  LOL at anyone saying Myrcella....she's not a Baratheon.

Tully: The Blackfish.  Edmure wouldn't be bad either but he is a simpleton compared to the Blackish when it comes to strategy and politics.  The Blackfish is the freaking man.

Martell:  Arianne.  She's stronger than Quentyn.

Lannister: Tyrion.  This one is the biggest no brainer of them all.  

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1 hour ago, acwill07 said:

Greyjoy: Asha easily.  LOL at anyone saying Theon.  Asha realizes that their ways of reaving and trying to conquer other lands by force will only lead to ruin.  She would be the best choice to ensure Greyjoy longevity.

Except she conveniently realized that after she went along with Balon's dumb ass plan to reave and try to conquer the North by force, thereby killing any hope of a beneficial alliance with the northerners. Theon was the only one who stood up to Balon, at least initially, because he understood they needed to be in good terms with the greenlanders.

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1 minute ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Except she conveniently realized that after she went along with Balon's dumb ass plan to reave and try to conquer the North by force, thereby killing any hope of a beneficial alliance with the northerners. Theon was the only one who stood up to Balon, at least initially, because he understood they needed to be in good terms with the greenlanders.

She went along with Balon's plan because she was being an obedient daughter.  Theon only stood up to Balon because he'd been empowered by Robb and he had gotten it into his head that he was important......he thought he would eventually get to set up shop at Casterly Rock or something ridiculous like that.  Then, after caving to his father he goes out and goes WAY beyond what his father asked him to do, which basically dooms all the ironborn in the north.

Theon would be a terrible Lord.  It took an insane amount of physical torture for him to start thinking rationally.  Asha would be much, much better.

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5 minutes ago, acwill07 said:

She went along with Balon's plan because she was being an obedient daughter.  Theon only stood up to Balon because he'd been empowered by Robb and he had gotten it into his head that he was important......he thought he would eventually get to set up shop at Casterly Rock or something ridiculous like that.  Then, after caving to his father he goes out and goes WAY beyond what his father asked him to do, which basically dooms all the ironborn in the north.

Theon would be a terrible Lord.  It took an insane amount of physical torture for him to start thinking rationally.  Asha would be much, much better.

That doesn't change the fact that as arrogant and immature as Theon was in aCoK, he understood back then what Asha only realized two books later. You take Balon out of the equation, as in the scenario the OP proposes, and Theon as Lord of Pyke would have much better relations with the North and the Riverlands than Asha ever could.

That's not to say Asha would've been a bad ruler. She could've done well with advisors like the Reader and Tristifer, but she's actually more of a wildcard than Theon back in the day. Like, Theon would be eager to marry Sansa or whatever to strengthen the alliances with other Houses. I don't see Asha settling down like that. 

Basically, Theon grew up in the greenlander culture, while Asha's got more of the Ironborn.

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Kevan, he's been Tywin's righthand all his life and he's more clever than his nephews and niece ever gave him credit for, he would actually be respected as well unlike Tyrion who is a laughing stock among the Western lords.

Renly, unless he's dead in which case Stannis by default

Harrold Hardyng, Robert is a weakling 

Victarion, he's too stupid to cause much trouble

Edmure, he's the heir and was raised as the heir and Blackfish avoids responsibility like the plague

Quentyn, Yronwood could rule through him

Robb, he was raised as the heir it's only natural he should follow

Willas, another blatantly obvious one, he's next in line and is supposedly intelligent.

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Baratheon: Stannis. Assuming that I find out that Cersei's children are bastards, they won't inherit and we repeatedly see in the series that while Renly is well-liked, he wouldn't make a good king. Stannis is a fine military commander, works well with a fleet and has a strong sense of justice, so I don't see why he shouldn't be lord or king. A huge problem however, is that he is not at all well-liked and does not inspire people, be they nobles or smallfolk, to love him, which is an extremely crucial aspect of being a leader, so I am honestly a little bit conflicted with that.

Martell: Quentyn. I know the laws of inheritance in Dorne say the eldest child inherits, which would make Arianne the rightful heir, but reading her POVs (and Arys Oakheart's POV), Arianne, to me, comes off as manipulative and hot-headed, which are not good qualities for a ruling prince or princess. In the books she appears to have interests in books which are what we would classify as fantasy or fiction (the Loves of Queen Nymeria and Ten Thousand Ships are one of the books she wants to read while she's locked in the tower). Quentyn, on the other hand, comes off as calm and composed. He is studious and loves to read different kinds of books of different genres, which indicates that he is well-learned in different things.

Tully: Edmure. I don't see why not. He cares about his people and is determined to prove himself to be a worthy lord and there is nothing that says that he can't have the Blackfish as his key advisor.

Lannister: Tyrion. Jaime is Tywin's oldest son, but he is in the Kingsguard, so he can't inherit, which leaves Tyrion. The problem however is that Tyrion is not at all well liked by anyone. He is a capable leader, thinks almost everything through and knows how to make deals with people and, similar to Robert Baratheon but to a lesser degree, he knows how to turn enemies into friends and, unlike Stannis, Tyrion actually tries to make himself loved by people.

I'm also very open to Kevan and his line inheriting. He is one of the most underestimated characters in the series and even his son Lancel is indirectly described as being more of a follower than a leader, but they're both characters who are in other people's shadows and I personally think that if they simply got the chance to be the ones to shine, they'd do great.

Arryn: Robert. There is no reason for him to not inherit and be Lord Paramount of the Vale. He is still a young boy and can change with age if he is fostered with someone. I would however limit Lysa's power and influence over both Robert and the Vale in general by appointing a regent to rule in Robert's name. For that, I am leaning towards Nestor Royce because he has been High Steward of the Vale for 14 years while Jon Arryn had been Hand of the King, so why shouldn't he continue as regent in Robert's name? Of course, if Robert dies, Harrold Hardying will inherit as Harrold Arryn.

Stark: Robb. See no reason why he shouldn't be Lord of Winterfell. Of course, because he's so young, he's need a regent or at least a key advisors who would make a lot of decisions on his behalf. I can imagine these ke advisors to be Rodrik Cassel and Maester Luwin, maybe also the steward Vayon Poole.

Tyrell: Willas. Don't see why not, he's the heir to Highgarden and he is described as very kind and intelligent.

Greyjoy: I am rather torn between Theon and Asha. When I say this, I mean in terms of being on good terms with the main land or the "greenland" and to actually make them stop reaving and start an actual economy on their own, because that would be beneficial to everyone, both the Ironborn and the people on main Westeros

If we go by the traditional way of inheritance, Theon is the rightful heir to Pyke and the Iron Islands. He has spent 10 years with the Starks and is very familiar with mainland tradition and way of life, however he has unfortunately forgotten a lot of the Ironborn culture and isn't really friends with anyone on the islands of great importance (and that includes his immediate family), which wouldmake it difficult for him to have a proper foothold on the islands. To strenghten his foothold, I can't agree on whether I would make him marry a noble Ironborn woman from a house that is "mainland-friendly" or a noble woman from the mainland (one from a family with a powerful fleet).

If we go by Balon's alleged will and make Asha the rightful heir to Pyke and the Iron Islands, it will still present problems. Although Asha has lived her entire life on the Iron Islands and is part of their culture, the Iron Islands might not accept her as their Lady Paramount because they have never been ruled by a woman. To strenghten her foothold on the islands, she'd have to marry a noble Ironborn man from a "mainland-friendly" house or a man from a noble mainland house with a power fleet.

 

These are my personal ones.

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Posted (edited)

Baratheon - I pick the just and able ruler Stannis over the ambitious and younger Renly

Martell - Tristane (sorry, Quentyn and Arianne, but you're both too impulsive)

Tyrell - Garlan. Sure, most people are going to say Olenna, but she's better behind the scenes. And he can lead troops, Willas can't

Tully - Blackfish, big surprise

Stark - Robb, I don't want an underaged ruler for them and the rest isn't too competent anyway

Lannister - Jaime, I wouldn't want a schemer like Tyrion in charge of the wealthiest house

Greyjoy - Vicky is capable and yet, he should be comparatively easy to control. Euron is insane, Theon is stupid and Asha is dangerous.

Arryn - Harry the Heir. Sweetrobin is utterly incompetent

Edited by John Doe

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Posted (edited)

Stark: Robb with Cat as regent 

Lannister: Kevan , this is the start of aGoT so Tyrion hasn't experienced all the stuff he does throughout the books going to the NW , captured by Cat , imprisoned by Lysa , fighting a battle , hand of the king etc. I don't see Tyrion taking himself very seriously for the job before this.

Baratheon: Stannis 

Arryn: Sweet robin , can't decide on a regent definetly not Lysa , Yohn Royce teach him about politics of the vale and Brynden Blackfish to be kept around to make sure he's not being taken advantage of.

Martell: Quentyn

Greyjoy: : Victarion ( He's no harm unless you get him wound up )

Tyrell: Willas

Tully: Edmure

 
Edited by Magnar of the Dreadfort
Spelling error

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Posted (edited)

Stark: Robb - The only one at an age to rule

Greyjoy: Asha - Theon is an a** and know nothing about the Iron Islands

Arryn: Robert - the last member of house Arryn, there is no choice

Tully: Blackfish - because Edmure is a damn fool

Lannister: Tyrion - only because I know him, otherwise the best choice should be Kevan

Tyrell: I don't know Garlan nor Willas, but certainly NOT Loras.....hmmmm maybe the queen of thorns lol

Baratheon: Stannis - Renly is not serious enough to be a leader/ruler

Martell: Oberyn - just for the LOLs hahahahahahah

Edited by The Hammer of Justice

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For the sake of the House itself - if only the interests of the House are important

Stark: Catelyn

Greyjoy: Asha

Arryn: Jon Arryn

Tully: Brynden

Lannister: Tywin

Tyrell: Olenna

Baratheon: Robert

Martell: Doran

For the sake of Westeros - if picking those leaders who would follow a policy most beneficient for Westeros as a whole

Stark: Robb

Greyjoy: Asha

Arryn: Jon Arryn

Tully: Edmure

Lannister: Genna

Tyrell: Mace

Baratheon: Stannis

Martell: Doran

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Since all those guys and Cersei are dead this seems a pretty easy question - I'd observe the line of succession in virtually every case.  The potential problems that could arise are:  1. Tyrion, but since Cersei and Tywin are dead Jaime isn't going to fight it and Kevan has no reason to at that point.  2.  Robin Arryn - fuck it, let the Vale fight over the Eyrie, not like Harry is a much better option.  3.  Greyjoys - let em do a Kingsmoot - with the provision Euron is ineligible.  You're only upholding Balon's wishes.

Obviously, the big problem is the Baratheons.  Again, since both Tywin and Cersei are dead, you put Stannis in control after ensuring Tommen/Myrcella/and yes even Joffrey's safety.  If Renly wants a fight - especially after being confirmed as Lord of SE in perpetuity since Stannis is now king - that's Stannis' problem.  Imma go home.

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Stark : Robb

Tully : Catelyn

Lannister : Kevan

Arryn : Yohn Royce, lol, time for the barely surviving heirs to end,the Arryns can keep the Eyrie with Harrold Arryn acting as head, but now loyal to the Royces

Greyjoy : Just invade them abd put someone else in charge. Perhaps House Mallister. Time to take the Iron Islanders out of power.

Tyrell : Willas or Garlan (I need more information on Willas!)

Baratheon : Shireen, with Renly as regent

Martell : I guess Arianne

 

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