Calibandar

Marvel Cinematic General Discussion 7

358 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, briantw said:

I think you can recast just about any other character from X-Men, but Hugh Jackman is just so fucking perfect for Wolverine that it would be insane to turn him down.

Jackman was a fantastic Wolverine by the end. I didn't like him at first when it came to the first Xmen movie, he was too tall too good looking and didn't quite live up to the Claremont version of Wolverine I was hoping for.

I think they could easily recast him and we could have just as good a Wolverine. Someone shorter and stockier and more irritable.

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1 hour ago, Eggegg said:

Jackman was a fantastic Wolverine by the end. I didn't like him at first when it came to the first Xmen movie, he was too tall too good looking and didn't quite live up to the Claremont version of Wolverine I was hoping for.

I think they could easily recast him and we could have just as good a Wolverine. Someone shorter and stockier and more irritable.

Yeah, I agree... simply by virtue of his casting, Jackman re-defined the character... so the movie Wolverine was very different from the source comics... If and when he gets recast, there will be a certain amount of negative backlash by those who only know the character via the movies... but if the actor can pull it off, the comic readers will help smooth it over, eventually... Kind of like how Trevor Noah took over for Jon Stewart... at first everyone hated him... but as he made the daily show his own, he's won people over...

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5 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

Yeah, I agree... simply by virtue of his casting, Jackman re-defined the character... so the movie Wolverine was very different from the source comics... If and when he gets recast, there will be a certain amount of negative backlash by those who only know the character via the movies... but if the actor can pull it off, the comic readers will help smooth it over, eventually... Kind of like how Trevor Noah took over for Jon Stewart... at first everyone hated him... but as he made the daily show his own, he's won people over...

Yeah it would be difficult at first, but I'd personally love it if Wolverine was actually a bit more Wolverineish! Also, maybe, just maybe getting to wear his costume?! Just once would be nice!

They could easily recast the entire Xmen and I wouldn't complain. So far only Patrick Stewart bares any real relation to my classic view of the comic characters. Almost every single other actor is either miscast or just very different to how I pictured them. Magneto was great in the movies, both actors, but again not really quite how I'd pictured them, like a lot of the actors they've picked, good but not really close.

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They've already recast the X-Men with the New Class, so doing it again for the MCU makes sense. (Third time was a charm for Spider-man)

This also frees them from the baggage of the FoX-men movie continuity.

As for Magneto, I wonder if there is someway to shift his character out of WWII Holocaust origins, purely from an age factor of him needing to be 90+ years old. I'm not looking to stir controversy by removing his Jewish heritage or anything. Just thinking through the logistics of having Magneto be active in 2020 when he survived a concentration camp in 1945. 

Then again, we already have Rogers and Barnes still around after being frozen, so I guess there is already a precedent.

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This is one of those areas where the comics have an advantage, because IIRC Magneto has already been de-aged and given a younger physical body twice so far. You can't casually just throw something like that in if you're rebooting the whole X-Men continuity, though. 

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1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

This also frees them from the baggage of the FoX-men movie continuity.

Thats a loose term for the way Fox has laced together its movies!

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I don't think de-aging would work on film. And it doesn;t make too much sense to have an 80 year old Magneto rocking around. So time-travel him and company from the past/alternate dimension (where Mutants are a thing.) Sort of like they did with the All-New X-Men.

But really I don't want them in the MCU. They work best left to their own devices. Plus being apart gave us the gory, sweary, Deadpool; bloody, misanthropic, Logan; and New Mutants (that is looking like a horror film.) I don't see us getting those films with Disney. So I'd love Disney to keep them separate (if this deal goes through,) but they won't.

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8 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

I don't think de-aging would work on film. And it doesn;t make too much sense to have an 80 year old Magneto rocking around. So time-travel him and company from the past/alternate dimension (where Mutants are a thing.) Sort of like they did with the All-New X-Men.

But really I don't want them in the MCU. They work best left to their own devices. Plus being apart gave us the gory, sweary, Deadpool; bloody, misanthropic, Logan; and New Mutants (that is looking like a horror film.) I don't see us getting those films with Disney. So I'd love Disney to keep them separate (if this deal goes through,) but they won't.

I agree, X-men tend to exist in this universe where people are born with superpowers and are treated as freaks and outcasts.. and yet you put them in the same universe as spiderman and Captain America who are treated as heroes, then it becomes quite inconsistent. I would rather they stayed apart and had their own stories. 

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6 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

I agree, X-men tend to exist in this universe where people are born with superpowers and are treated as freaks and outcasts.. and yet you put them in the same universe as spiderman and Captain America who are treated as heroes, then it becomes quite inconsistent. I would rather they stayed apart and had their own stories. 

Just gonna say Spider-man really isn't viewed by everyone as a hero.

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2 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

Just gonna say Spider-man really isn't viewed by everyone as a hero.

Yeah I thought about that, but still, he doesn't appear to be thrown into labour camps in most of his stories

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4 hours ago, Myrddin said:

As for Magneto, I wonder if there is someway to shift his character out of WWII Holocaust origins, purely from an age factor of him needing to be 90+ years old. I'm not looking to stir controversy by removing his Jewish heritage or anything. Just thinking through the logistics of having Magneto be active in 2020 when he survived a concentration camp in 1945. 

Could use some bullshit explanation about how his mutant powers have made him age slower than a normal human.

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1 hour ago, briantw said:

Could use some bullshit explanation about how his mutant powers have made him age slower than a normal human.

There is a long and storied history of giving Magneto random powers 'because magnetism, that's why'. When Stan was still writing, magnetism and/or transistors could do anything.

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I suppose I'd believe a 45 seconds long de- aging clip of having an old man with oxygen tank wheeled into one of those crystal shops in New Mexico's mystic tourism towns, then having his "caretaker" point out one particular set of geodes that crystalized around some radioactive material from the bomb test sites, some metal, you know, then show him cocooned into a huge geode of the stuff a few days later, like it's coursing through his system remaking him as it goes, magnetic anti- oxidents on a scale that would be the envy of every diet supplement pill store in the land.

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22 hours ago, briantw said:

Wasn't Bale demanding the kind of money that Robert Downey Jr. makes for his Marvel films?  I mean, I thought Bale was a fine Batman, but he's not bringing in viewers like RDJ does for Marvel, and thus he shouldn't be compensated in a similar manner.  No one went to see Nolan's Batman movies because of Bale.  They went because of Nolan, or simply because they were new Batman movies and Batman has always been popular.

In contrast, I think you can make a compelling argument that RDJ is a huge part of why the Marvel cinematic universe has been so successful, as he basically established the tone of the entire universe with his performance in Iron Man, and is just generally an incredibly charismatic actor.

IMO, which might not be something everyone agrees with, Bale's Bruce Wayne was not all that great, it was fine but it's not what made the movie. And given with Batman the only human thing you see is that manly lower jaw, it arguably doesn't matter who plays Batman, it only matters who plays Bruce Wayne. 

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12 hours ago, Eggegg said:

Jackman was a fantastic Wolverine by the end. I didn't like him at first when it came to the first Xmen movie, he was too tall too good looking and didn't quite live up to the Claremont version of Wolverine I was hoping for.

I think they could easily recast him and we could have just as good a Wolverine. Someone shorter and stockier and more irritable.

Kevin Hart. 

 

2 hours ago, mormont said:

There is a long and storied history of giving Magneto random powers 'because magnetism, that's why'. When Stan was still writing, magnetism and/or transistors could do anything.

It's still around, at least the magnetism can do anything thing. People putting magnets in their mattresses because it will cure your back and joint problems.

We only age because of free radical damage to our cells, tissues and DNA. There is surely some fictional mechanism that can be created whereby Magnetism can be used to reduce or reverse free radical damage and thus potentially indefinitely extend one's life.

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7 hours ago, Eggegg said:

I agree, X-men tend to exist in this universe where people are born with superpowers and are treated as freaks and outcasts.. and yet you put them in the same universe as spiderman and Captain America who are treated as heroes, then it becomes quite inconsistent. I would rather they stayed apart and had their own stories. 

I actually think it makes for great potential. On the one hand you have ordinary humans who through "science" have acquired enhanced powers. On the other hand you have these genetic freaks who are a different (and morally inferior) species. There is no rationality in people accepting Spider Man and rejecting mutants. It is pure racism. I like the idea that there's this word where there are "approved" enhanced people and "unapproved" enhanced people on the basis that one type of enhanced person is a proper human, and the other type of enhanced person isn't really a proper human. Surely, that's a great narrative opportunity.

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9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

We only age because of free radical damage to our cells, tissues and DNA. There is surely some fictional mechanism that can be created whereby Magnetism can be used to reduce or reverse free radical damage and thus potentially indefinitely extend one's life.

It wouldn't even necessarily have to only be Magneto.  They could just explain it away as mutants having longer lifespans than the traditional human.  Not all of them would be like Wolverine and barely age at all, but say they top out around 120 rather than 100 like a non-mutant and you've basically got a timeline that fits for Magneto still being a Holocaust survivor. 

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4 hours ago, briantw said:

Could use some bullshit explanation about how his mutant powers have made him age slower than a normal human.

They could make him a Tutsi from Rwanda and I guess that would still give him the "never again will I let a similar fate befall my kind" angle. Or if they insist on him being european he could be a Bosnian muslim from the Yugoslavian war. Both scenarios would allow him to be in his 30s-40s. I think it would be an interesting direction to go with the cinematic version of the character.

Or they just make out he accidentally messed with space/time when he freaked out with his powers in Nazi Germany and wound up in 2000. He doesn't know how he did it (he was super stressed out/angry in that camp). That would provide a long-term fix as they can just have his "origin" as World War 2 and have him time-travel to 2020, 2050 etc whenever they need to alter the time. It also keeps the Xavier rivalry alive as he can meet him after the time travel. That's the "keep things familiar" solution.

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15 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I actually think it makes for great potential. On the one hand you have ordinary humans who through "science" have acquired enhanced powers. On the other hand you have these genetic freaks who are a different (and morally inferior) species. There is no rationality in people accepting Spider Man and rejecting mutants. It is pure racism. I like the idea that there's this word where there are "approved" enhanced people and "unapproved" enhanced people on the basis that one type of enhanced person is a proper human, and the other type of enhanced person isn't really a proper human. Surely, that's a great narrative opportunity.

That angle works with "outed" superheroes but it's still a bit iffy with Spider-man. Do people take his word that he's an enhanced human instead of a mutant. Same with Daredevil and all the other masked vigilantes with powers.

I agree it works well with Iron Man and captain america, etc. One of the better elements of "uncanny Avengers" were the mutants pointing out how Iron Man and Cap never really made much of a stand to help mutants.

Of course that's when mutants were feared and hated. Now the mutants go around being accused of committing Inhuman genocide and it's the poor Inhumans who are hated and feared by EVERYONE.

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38 minutes ago, red snow said:

That angle works with "outed" superheroes but it's still a bit iffy with Spider-man. Do people take his word that he's an enhanced human instead of a mutant. Same with Daredevil and all the other masked vigilantes with powers.

I agree it works well with Iron Man and captain america, etc. One of the better elements of "uncanny Avengers" were the mutants pointing out how Iron Man and Cap never really made much of a stand to help mutants.

Of course that's when mutants were feared and hated. Now the mutants go around being accused of committing Inhuman genocide and it's the poor Inhumans who are hated and feared by EVERYONE.

Why not have it as part of a movie that Spider Man is accused of being a mutant, then someone develops a blood test to identify the X gene, and Spider Man willingly submits to the test to prove he's not a mutant. Submitting yourself to a genetic purity test to prove you are not a freak is very controversial. But for a Spider man who is still in High School it's kind of understandable that he would do that because he doesn't think about the broader consequences of a genetic purity test. He just doesn't want people to hate him because he's different.

Hulk comes back to earth and is also immediately suspected of and vilified as a mutant, thus confirming all the bad shit he says about Earth in Ragnarok.

Like I said, lots of narrative possibilities. And if I can think of a few ideas that aren't complete crap, then people who are actually good at this stuff can come up with away better material.

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