Datepalm Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Say, any thoughts on how the show does culture/ethnicity/religion? I was thinking about Abed's worldview, which is so distinctly a construct of various media tropes and images, but it's a very, very Western one. He's Palestinian/Polish, his parents are first generation immigrants, he knows at least some Polish, and yet there's no sign he's ever incorporated anything that originated from outside Hollywood (barring things like the nominally British Inspector Spacetime, which is also - Britishness and all - part of the American media landscape.) On the one hand, you'd think he might frame his big emotional breakdown about his family as, say, a big Eid al Fitr story, not a Christmas narrative complete with candy canes and santa clauses (he might at least have had some Catholic European motifs in there, given that that episode was very much about his Polish mother.) Not to mention he would almost certainly have been exposed to at least some Arab/Polish culture growing up, movies and music certainly, that have never made it into his world of references. On the other hand, of course it's all this generic American stuff. It seems to me like the whole point of Abed's meta-textual view is that it's like Greendale itself - a fantasy of familiar tropes - twisted, subverted, taken to extreme, whatever - but still utterly known and knowable, a media landscape bizarrely - sometimes uncomfortably - replacing reality. Drawing on things that are particular to him would break what Abed is trying to do, just as introducing something that would look exotic or highbrow-via-foreigness to the general audience would break the illusion. Community's references can be difficult to spot, perhaps, but they're always perfectly drawn from the aether, the collective unconscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I don't know, I think a lot of that stuff gets compartmentalized. I rarely refer to Hinduism or Indian culture references amongst non-Indian friends. Even among Indian-American friends it rarely comes up. I probably have stronger memories of Christmas than I do of Diwali as the former for our family was just presents, hanging out, and maybe a tree. Diwali I recall more as an adult because that's when I was among other Indians in college to really celebrate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Yes, I think most of that is compartmentalized away. Abed probably has squashed all that down in order to figure out who he is. It's probably deliberate on his part. Hide those parts of his background and all he is is the Hollywood references. Self-aware, he must comment on the meta-text in order to move past it to whatever he is becoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm in the "this one surpassed the first AD&D episode" camp. What it gives up in novelty it makes up for with just really self-assured, rapid fire action and cleverness. I laughed multiple times at the writing in this one. The Fa...bulous Neil in the background bit, Chang's delivery of "Times Square?", "I spray ALL over them", the Dean frantically rubbing the hilt of the family sword, the Dean desperately pining away for father Jeff (fuck pretty much everything the Dean did, Hickey's interrogation of the Hobgoblins (I'm with AP, brilliantly filmed that) and the sheer goofiness of the fight at the end. For me it was just funnier than the original (though admittedly no visual gag can compare to Chang as a Dark Elf). Community is so pop-culture aware it would seem the writers have a deft sense of how to avoid the myriad of pitfalls that come with sequels. Both in this and Paintball they went back to the well but was still able to create a different feel and a wildly entertaining romp in its won right. Tobias Funke was great too. The weird (elvish?) song he was sing just killed me. Another guest star who just seamlessly fit into the bizarre Community world. We're now up to two Arrested Development cameos and two Breaking Bad cameos (one extended). I've changed my demands - now I want an AD/BB mashup episode. And I'm determined to stay right here until I get it. ETA: BTW Chang is back to being hilarious again. Feel like this season Harmon and co. have pulled off the not insignificant trick of turning him into the show's Creed Bratton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't know, I think a lot of that stuff gets compartmentalized. I rarely refer to Hinduism or Indian culture references amongst non-Indian friends. Even among Indian-American friends it rarely comes up. I probably have stronger memories of Christmas than I do of Diwali as the former for our family was just presents, hanging out, and maybe a tree. Diwali I recall more as an adult because that's when I was among other Indians in college to really celebrate it. Except Abed doesn't seem like the sort of guy who'd compartmentalize like that for social reasons. Maybe he's assimilated but early Abed- at the very least -raises some questions if we assume that he's that socially plugged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Except Abed doesn't seem like the sort of guy who'd compartmentalize like that for social reasons. Maybe he's assimilated but early Abed- at the very least -raises some questions if we assume that he's that socially plugged in. You don't compartmentalize for social reasons, it's more like you don't even think of those references when you're out of the house and/or away from family. I can't barely recall any time when I thought, "This reminds me of the Mahabharata" or something akin to that. eta: With Abed, being raised by TV, it's probably more pronounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 You don't compartmentalize for social reasons, it's more like you don't even think of those references when you're out of the house and/or away from family. I can't barely recall any time when I thought, "This reminds me of the Mahabharata" or something akin to that. eta: With Abed, being raised by TV, it's probably more pronounced. Hm. That...makes a surprising amount of sense. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 You don't compartmentalize for social reasons, it's more like you don't even think of those references when you're out of the house and/or away from family. I can't barely recall any time when I thought, "This reminds me of the Mahabharata" or something akin to that. eta: With Abed, being raised by TV, it's probably more pronounced. Really? Maybe I've got a different immigrant experience (I've been here since I was 3,...) It's not exactly all the time, but I've had plenty of moments when some association with something Russian will drift through my mind, or much more often, some cultural reference just doesn't click. :dunno: I don't think it's compartmentalization per se - I think it's more that he uses trope-land to make sense of the world, and adding in something foreign, that isn't part of that same trope-landscape, defeats the purpose...but it also de-individuaizes him somewhat, to my eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 It seems like ethnic/cultural/religious particulars will exist for the characters when they're needed for a joke or a plot point, but that they aren't carried through to really form a vital part of who the characters are. Troy is apparently a Jehovah's Witness, something which pops up for a couple of funny jokes- in Mixology they give him a cake which says 'hello during a random dessert,' which I found very funny- but doesn't define him otherwise. That's partially fine, plenty of people have religions nominally that they don't follow, but I don't see why Troy should care or the group should be sensitive towards JW non-celebration beliefs on Troy's birthday when he so obviously does not otherwise follow the religion. With Abed, was his mother a first generation Polish immigrant? I don't recall too many details about her except that she left his father and him early in his life and returned to watch Rudolph every year before Christmas. If she wasn't very religious it would make sense that Abed grew up on the claymation version of Christmas (which is the best Christmas, imo). In any case, I do think the show exists in an improbably culturally homogenous landscape. I, for one, have never been in a room with that many people who like Barenaked Ladies. Although BNL is a Canadian band, so Community did tread a little international there, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Jeff is the one that I look at slightly askance - he has no cultural, ethnic, religious or class attributes at all, that I've ever noticed (maybe a hint of working class background with the deadbeat dad?) I assume that if they could actually have painted Joel McHale an appealing shade of neutral, race-less grey, they would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I've never played D&D but I felt like this version did a far better job of conveying the game on screen than the previous one did (although I could be wrong). I'm more curious about playing it after this episode than at any other time in my life anyway. David Cross is also excellent. I only really know him from AD and a few guest spots but he was great in a different way in this episode. I also think Hickey fits the team like a glove. I think Dean had the best moments in this episode and I loved how he really got into the game just as others were flagging/considering bailing on the whole thing. Chang is working better as well without him having any evil sideplots anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I liked the first AD&D episode better but AAD&D felt like a better representation of the game itself. I dunno, maybe my impression will improve on rewatches, but as of right now, this falls into the category of inferior (but still good!) sequels. On the other hand, I loved the little things tossed into the episode that only other D&Ders might appreciate, such as the necromancer (necrophile?) escaping at the end because they're too busy killing each other or David Cross taking the roll of the dreaded 'fuck the GM, I'm going this way!' type of player and expressing derision at their play-styles. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Just a note that the livestream of the Community panel at Paleyfest 2014 will be tonight, 10:30pm ET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I also think Hickey fits the team like a glove. Absolutely. Hickey appears to be what Pierce should have eventually developed into: a curmudgeon willing to put up with the gang's crazy antics because he sees the good that can be done rather than because he's desperate to be part of those antics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I liked the first AD&D episode better but AAD&D felt like a better representation of the game itself. I dunno, maybe my impression will improve on rewatches, but as of right now, this falls into the category of inferior (but still good!) sequels. That's a good point. There was probably a bit more here for D&D fans than there was in the 1st one. Absolutely. Hickey appears to be what Pierce should have eventually developed into: a curmudgeon willing to put up with the gang's crazy antics because he sees the good that can be done rather than because he's desperate to be part of those antics. Yeah, it's sort of funny how despite the first D&D episode being great it did call for a continual reset of Pierce to biggest asshole in the group. Naturally part of that likely came from the antagonism between Chase and Harmon, and Harmon setting up the possibility Pierce leaves the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Great episode on the heels of a terrible one. Hickey is much better than a sulking Pierce but I'm not completely sold on him yet. I'd trade him in a hearbeat for Troy returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'd trade the lot of them for Troy and Abed, I think. Well, except the Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Absolutely. Hickey appears to be what Pierce should have eventually developed into: a curmudgeon willing to put up with the gang's crazy antics because he sees the good that can be done rather than because he's desperate to be part of those antics. And they've ditched the homophobic/racist/sexist jokes with him, which while the show used them in a "this guy is cringe-inducingly dated" the show can still do fine without. Pierce when used well was still great though. Nice to see they can do different characters and don't just use the same character with a different actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sven Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I've never played D&D but I felt like this version did a far better job of conveying the game on screen than the previous one did (although I could be wrong). I'm more curious about playing it after this episode than at any other time in my life anyway. David Cross is also excellent. I only really know him from AD and a few guest spots but he was great in a different way in this episode. I also think Hickey fits the team like a glove. I think Dean had the best moments in this episode and I loved how he really got into the game just as others were flagging/considering bailing on the whole thing. Chang is working better as well without him having any evil sideplots anymore. The first episode is actually what got me to start playing D&D, you should give it a try I ended up really liking the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Just a note that the livestream of the Community panel at Paleyfest 2014 will be tonight, 10:30pm ET Is anybody else watching this? Britta just led a rendition of Dean's payday rap. Eventually the whole cast was doing it. It was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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