Moments of Foreshadowing 8 [TPatQ spoilers]

[Lost Melnibonean]

What's the significance of this line...

One wine-sodden taleteller even claimed that Rhaegar Targaryen had returned from the dead and was marshaling a vast host of ancient heroes on Dragonstone to reclaim his father's throne.

Obviously the traveler didn't know what he was talking about but could line, from the Bran chapter in which the banners are marshaled at Winterfell, be a foreshadowing by the George of Aegon (Rhaegar's presumed son) and the Golden Company (descendants of ancient heroes)? Or might it have something to do with Jon?

[Kat]

Mod note: If your post was hidden, it's because you're posting references to TWOW spoilers without using the appropriate spoiler tags. Please be careful. Thanks.

[Mithras]

Spoilers from TWoW Mercy chapter:

Izembaro loved to give the Sealord’s speech from The Merchant’s Melancholy Daughter, about how “here the last Titan yet stands, astride the stony shoulders of his brothers,” but Mercy preferred the scene where the fat merchant shat on the Sealord’s head as he passed underneath in his gold-and-purple barge. Only in Braavos could something like that happen, it was said, and only in Braavos would Sealord and sailor alike howl with laughter to see it.

“Whores are found in brothels here, as in Westeros. You will have no need of such, my little friend. Choose from amongst my servingwomen. None will dare refuse you.”

“Slaves?” the dwarf asked pointedly.

The fat man stroked one of the prongs of his oiled yellow beard, a gesture Tyrion found remarkably obscene. “Slavery is forbidden in Pentos, by the terms of the treaty the Braavosi imposed on us a hundred years ago. Still, they will not refuse you.”

“Slavery may be forbidden by the laws of Pentos, yet you have a finger in that trade as well, and maybe a whole hand.”

Tyrosh and Lys were about to declare war against each other and both of them were trying to take Myr on their side. In Pentos, Illyrio openly acted as a Targaryen supporter and sold Dany to the mightiest khal, which means war will follow sooner or later. In Qohor, the followers of Rhlorr tried to burn the Black Goat. We do not know much about Lorath or Norvos. Volantis sent a massive fleet to crush Dany. All the known Free Cities are taking action, choosing sides, doing something except Braavos. The only thing they seem to care is their gold lent to the IT.

Volantis is trying to kill Dany who caused a great damage to slave trade yet Braavos does nothing. Remember Volantis is the archenemy of Braavos. Pentos is obviously practicing slavery all but a name yet Braavos does nothing.

I always suspected why Braavos was so late to take any action in the Essossi events. Now I am sure that it is because the Sealord grew very feeble. The fat man (Illyrio the Pentoshi slaver) shitting on the head of the Sealord neatly represents this fact.

I think the city is tense and knives will come out shortly. Perhaps Arya’s meddling by killing Raff will be the catalyst.

[Fragile Bird]

Tyrosh and Lys were about to declare war against each other and both of them were trying to take Myr on their side. In Pentos, Illyrio openly acted as a Targaryen supporter and sold Dany to the mightiest khal, which means war will follow sooner or later. In Qohor, the followers of Rhlorr tried to burn the Black Goat. We do not know much about Lorath or Norvos. Volantis sent a massive fleet to crush Dany. All the known Free Cities are taking action, choosing sides, doing something except Braavos. The only thing they seem to care is their gold lent to the IT.

Volantis is trying to kill Dany who caused a great damage to slave trade yet Braavos does nothing. Remember Volantis is the archenemy of Braavos. Pentos is obviously practicing slavery all but a name yet Braavos does nothing.

I always suspected why Braavos was so late to take any action in the Essossi events. Now I am sure that it is because the Sealord grew very feeble. The fat man (Illyrio the Pentoshi slaver) shitting on the head of the Sealord neatly represents this fact.

I think the city is tense and knives will come out shortly. Perhaps Arya’s meddling by killing Raff will be the catalyst.

I can't imagine Illyrio being powerful enough to get Braavos to support Dany. All the free cities were founded by Valyrians, but Braavos was settled by refugees from Valyria, and was the only city dragons could not find. Even though Illyrio is a Targ supporter, the city's history is rooted in hiding from Valyria, Targs, and dragons.

[chrisdaw]

Tyrion's two headed dream is one of conflicting identities. He has supposedly forsaken his Lannister identity and when he comes to ride a dragon I expect a a public perception to develop of him having part Targaryen blood, particularly among whichever proud Targaryen he serves at that point.

As in the dream his two identities will clash when he sets forth to conquer the West. Come the hour of judgement his master may wish a stronger punishment for the Kingslayer and house which murdered the royal children than Tyrion's weeping head is capable of stomaching. They may also want him to prove his total loyalty, that he is a Targ in truth now, as bastards are notoriously treacherous.

And so Tyrion May side with house Lannister or at least refuse to be the instrument of it's ultimate destruction, putting him at odds with whoever is commanding him at the time. There is after all much made of his loyalty to his family.

Should his master at the time be Dany we'd have a betrayal for blood, and a part parallel to Rhaenyra's fall from grace.

[Unlady B]

Is it too much to ask that TWoW lines that foreshadows something be under the spoiler tags?

I read TpatQ, but it ruins the thrill when certain lines containing spoilers of the following book...

[Mithras]

“Oft have I heard that yours is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror, Jaehaerys the Wise, and Daeron the Dragon. The noble Hizdahr is of the blood of Mazdhan the Magnificent, Hazrak the Handsome, and Zharaq the Liberator.”

“His forebears are as dead as mine. Will Hizdahr raise their shades to defend Meereen against its enemies?”

Perhaps not, but Bran will. Release the dead Starks!

[Fire Eater]

The way the son was hitting the mountains made them look like solid gold. So lovely. The snow-clad summit of the Giant's Lance loomed above her, the immensity of ice and stone that dwarfed the castle perched upon its shoulder.

I think this foreshadows Tyrion revisiting the Eyrie. The mountains like gold, which is connected with the Lannisters, and the name "Giant's Lance" could refer to Tyrion who is mentioned as a giant often. The Eyrie perched upon the shoulder of the Giant's Lance could refer to Tyrion getting the support of the Eyrie, and ergo, the Vale.

The Winged Knight was Ser Artys Arryn. Legend said that he had driven the First Men from the Vale, and flown to the top of the Giant's Lance on a huge falcon to slay the Griffin King.

last I heard he [the BF] hadn't grown wings

Here is where it gets more crackpot. I thinking flying to the top of the Giant's Lance could refer to the BF rising in Tyrion and Dany's chain of command to being their top commander, and being the great-uncle to Robert Arryn and having served as the Knight of the Gate for over a decade might result in him being given command of the Vale forces, since Robert is still just a boy. That may be when he grows his wings, so to speak. I think the Winged Knight slaying the Griffin King could foreshadow the BF killing fAegon, Griff's king.

“Oft have I heard that yours is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror, Jaehaerys the Wise, and Daeron the Dragon. The noble Hizdahr is of the blood of Mazdhan the Magnificent, Hazrak the Handsome, and Zharaq the Liberator.”

“His forebears are as dead as mine. Will Hizdahr raise their shades to defend Meereen against its enemies?”

Perhaps not, but Bran will. Release the dead Starks!

Sorry, Paper Weaver, but I don't think Bran will raise dead Starks.

[Bori]

Not a really sophisticated one:

At the end of ACoK, in Jaime's the prison cell, Catelyn kicks the bucket of Jaime's waste over. Could it be a foreshadowing that she will, again, "kick the bucket" in the Red Wedding?
Or maybe just an ironical coincidence of word usage...

[Ice Turtle]

Sorry, Paper Weaver, but I don't think Bran will raise dead Starks.

I personally am not so skeptical .I don't think that dead Starks are buried the way they are buried only for sentimental reasons.

[chrisdaw]

I personally am not so skeptical .I don't think that dead Starks are buried the way they are buried only for sentimental reasons.

It is interesting, when I read this line,

From a Winds chapter

“here the last Titan yet stands, astride the stony shoulders of his brothers,”

My mind went to Bran (last Greenseer) and his forebears in the stone crypts.

And then there are the ants that swarm from an underground nest over the wall to attack giant Dany.

[Harlaw's Book the Sequel]

At the end of ASOS Sam tells Jon that he could "lie in a letter," in order to claim Gilly's son as his own. However, because Sam gets sent to Oldtown, he ends up not having to. But I think Sam's ability to "lie in a letter," will come up later.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Not a really sophisticated one:

At the end of ACoK, in Jaime's the prison cell, Catelyn kicks the bucket of Jaime's waste over. Could it be a foreshadowing that she will, again, "kick the bucket" in the Red Wedding?

Or maybe just an ironical coincidence of word usage...

Far less of a stretch than many, many others.

[Lost Melnibonean]

At the end of ASOS Sam tells Jon that he could "lie in a letter," in order to claim Gilly's son as his own. However, because Sam gets sent to Oldtown, he ends up not having to. But I think Sam's ability to "lie in a letter," will come up later.

So Sam authored the pink letter!

Just kidding...

[Lost Melnibonean]

Anybody on this list who ain't dead yet will be...

He damned them all: Littlefinger, Janos Slynt and his gold cloaks, the queen, the Kingslayer, Pycelle and Varys and Ser Barristan, even Lord Renly, Robert's own blood, who had run when he was needed most. Yet in the end he blamed himself. "Fool," he cried to the darkness, "thrice-damned blind fool."

[Mithras]

Her face had been stone before he spoke; then it hardened. “You are in my way, Hotah.” Obara was the eldest Sand Snake, a big-boned woman near to thirty, with the close-set eyes and rat-brown hair of the Oldtown whore who’d birthed her. Beneath a mottled sandsilk cloak of dun and gold, her riding clothes were old brown leather, worn and supple. They were the softest things about her. On one hip she wore a coiled whip, across her back a round shield of steel and copper. She had left her spear outside. For that, Areo Hotah gave thanks. Quick and strong as she was, the woman was no match for him, he knew... but she did not, and he had no wish to see her blood upon the pale pink marble.

He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

Dawn was described as pale as a milkglass. Obara, Areo Hotah and Balon Swann are hunting the Darkstar. I think Darkstar will steal the Dawn. Obara will charge him foolishly and he will cut her into bloody pieces.

Ser Arys frowned. The big Norvoshi captain with the scarred face had always made him feel profoundly uneasy.

This uneasy feeling was due to his future death at the hands of Areo.

This one will not die so easy as the other. He will not charge into my axe the way Ser Arys did. He will stand behind his shield and make me come at him.

Areo judges every man and this time, he saw at once that Balon Swann would be a formidable opponent. This may be a foreshadowing similar to uneasy feeling of Arys.

“Ser Balon, I have watched you tilt many a time, and fought with and against you in mêlées. I’m told you proved your valor a hundred times over during the Battle of the Blackwater. The Kingsguard is honored by your presence.”

“The honor’s mine, my lord.” Ser Balon sounded wary.

“There is only one question I would put to you. You served us loyally, it’s true ... but Varys tells me that your brother rode with Renly and then Stannis, whilst your lord father chose not to call his banners at all and remained behind the walls of Stonehelm all through the fighting.”

“My father is an old man, my lord. Well past forty. His fighting days are done.”

“And your brother?”

“Donnel was wounded in the battle and yielded to Ser Elwood Harte. He was ransomed afterward and pledged his fealty to King Joffrey, as did many other captives.”

“So he did,” said Jaime. “Even so . . . Renly, Stannis, Joffrey, Tommen . . . how did he come to omit Balon Greyjoy and Robb Stark? He might have been the first knight in the realm to swear fealty to all six kings.”

Ser Balon’s unease was plain. “Donnel erred, but he is Tommen’s man now. You have my word.”

“It’s not Ser Donnel the Constant who concerns me. It’s you.” Jaime leaned forward. “What will you do if brave Ser Donnel gives his sword to yet another usurper, and one day comes storming into the throne room? And there you stand all in white, between your king and your blood. What will you do?”

“I ... my lord, that will never happen.”

“It happened to me,” Jaime said.

Swann wiped his brow with the sleeve of his white tunic.

“You have no answer?”

“My lord.” Ser Balon drew himself up. “On my sword, on my honor, on my father’s name, I swear ... I shall not do as you did.”

Jaime laughed.

Lord Swann sent two sons to each side to make certain there would be a Swann on the winning side and remained behind his walls all through the fighting. This is exactly how Areo thought about the fighting style of Balon.

I think Balon will find himself in a difficult position in the fight against Darkstar. Gerold will make short work of Obara. Then he will start telling lies to Balon to lure him to his side. Balon will fall to it as Darkstar is poison, and at the same time he will choose to be at the winning side. I think Darkstar will persuade Balon of a Dornish conspiracy that he was made a scapegoat etc. They will kill Areo together.

If the gods were good, by now Obara Sand had treed him in his mountain fastness and put an end to him.

She said as much to Daemon Sand that first night, as they made camp. "Be careful what you pray for, princess," he replied. "Darkstar could put an end to Lady Obara just as easily."

"She has Areo Hotah with her." Prince Doran’s captain of guards had dispatched Ser Arys Oakheart with a single blow, though the Kingsguard were supposed to be the finest knights in all the realm. "No man can stand against Hotah."

"Is that what Darkstar is? A man?" Ser Daemon grimaced. "A man would not have done what he did to Princess Myrcella. Ser Gerold is more a viper than your uncle ever was. Prince Oberyn could see that he was poison, he said so more than once. It’s just a pity that he never got around to killing him."

Arianne has no idea about fighting. She sees Hotah as invincible and when we read such things in the series, it means Hotah is doomed to die.

[NotSoSilentSister]

There is some interesting stuff in there, particularly about the High Septon's stature, eyecolor and hairstyle, as well as the horned turtle thing.

But man, this theory can be edited down quite a bit. Lots of circumstantial evidence, and lots of things that are just dead weight and not evidence for anything at all.

No kidding. Seriously, sometimes less is more. Weak arguments can really undermine stronger ones, when they provide nothing but obfuscation.

Anyway, I can't see it. Greywater Watch seems firmly aligned with the Old Goods, and has tradtionally been pretty isolated. Where would Howland Reed even pick up enough Faith-of-the Seven-theology to convincingly pose as a High Septon? The people he has to convince have most likely studied that stuff for years.

[Winnief]

Anybody on this list who ain't dead yet will be...

He damned them all: Littlefinger, Janos Slynt and his gold cloaks, the queen, the Kingslayer, Pycelle and Varys and Ser Barristan, even Lord Renly, Robert's own blood, who had run when he was needed most. Yet in the end he blamed himself. "Fool," he cried to the darkness, "thrice-damned blind fool."

:agree:

[Mithras]

"Oak and iron guard me well, or else I'm dead and doomed to hell."

A knight should protect himself with oak and iron. Ser Arys Oakheart broke his vows with Arianne because his heart was too weak, certainly not strong as oak, which led him to his death.

“You [Mance] swore you would not let me fall into his hands again. I have your word on that.” He [Theon] needed to hear it again.

“Abel’s word,” said Squirrel. “Strong as oak.” Abel himself only shrugged. “No matter what, my prince.”

Mance broke his vows of the NW, which are quite similar to the vows of the Kingsguard. I think his word is not strong as oak. He has a certain ploy in his mind and to do that, he will not care about the vows he swore to Mel or Jon or even Theon.

[Newstar]

Anybody on this list who ain't dead yet will be...

He damned them all: Littlefinger, Janos Slynt and his gold cloaks, the queen, the Kingslayer, Pycelle and Varys and Ser Barristan, even Lord Renly, Robert's own blood, who had run when he was needed most. Yet in the end he blamed himself. "Fool," he cried to the darkness, "thrice-damned blind fool."

I love it! Hmmm, who's left? Littlefinger, the remaining gold cloaks, Cersei, Jaime, Varys, and Barristan. These are all characters I figured were doomed anyway, but this would be a very neat hint from AGOT. My pet theory is that most of the really important foreshadowing for the series as a whole is set down in that first book, in any event.