TWOW. Tyrion Chapter from ASOIAF App (Spoilers)

[H Reed]

Intrigued by the "no one heard. No one answered. No one cared" line; since all fm become 'no one' as part of their training, could one be near tyrion?

[Veltigar]

Reading this chapter has convinced me more than ever that the battle of fire will be split in two.

This is part one. Ironborn, Unsullied, Freedmen and mercs vs. The Yunkiai'i. Dany's camp will secure the easiest victory ever. After the dust settles, the survivors Tyrion, Vic, etc. will start worrying about the real threat, namely the Volantinian Navy (which is way more capable and probably numerous than the Yunkishmen) and the Sons of the Haroy.

This will give the characters some time to interact and establish relationships (hostile or otherwise) without interference by Dany. And then part two will start.

Volantinian marines vs. Ironborn and other Dany loyalists. Things will start looking bad and then Dany will rush in with her Dothraki horde to save the day.

[HexMachina]

Reading this chapter has convinced me more than ever that the battle of fire will be split in two.

This is part one. Ironborn, Unsullied, Freedmen and mercs vs. The Yunkiai'i. Dany's camp will secure the easiest victory ever. After the dust settles, the survivors Tyrion, Vic, etc. will start worrying about the real threat, namely the Volantinian Navy (which is way more capable and probably numerous than the Yunkishmen) and the Sons of the Haroy.

This will give the characters some time to interact and establish relationships (hostile or otherwise) without interference by Dany. And then part two will start.

Volantinian marines vs. Ironborn and other Dany loyalists. Things will start looking bad and then Dany will rush in with her Dothraki horde to save the day.

I think this is likely too (the arrival of the Volantene naval forces. Victarion's plan was to go in, break the Slaver's fleet, whisk Dany away and be on his way back to Westeros before the Volantenes arrived. Obviously, that isn't going to happen; Dany isn't there, so Victarion cannot leave yet.

Side note; if, as a few have speculated, the volantene slaves revolt, do you think there would be the parallel between the Volantene Fleet arriving here and the Corsairs of Umbar in LOTR?

[Veltigar]

I think this is likely too (the arrival of the Volantene naval forces. Victarion's plan was to go in, break the Slaver's fleet, whisk Dany away and be on his way back to Westeros before the Volantenes arrived. Obviously, that isn't going to happen; Dany isn't there, so Victarion cannot leave yet.

Side note; if, as a few have speculated, the volantene slaves revolt, do you think there would be the parallel between the Volantene Fleet arriving here and the Corsairs of Umbar in LOTR?

Imo the volantinians will arrive severals days after the first battle (having taken shelter to avoid most of the storm). Their marines will fight. No doubt about it. They'll only revolt when they actually see Dany on Drogon imo.

[Mithras]

Reading this chapter has convinced me more than ever that the battle of fire will be split in two.

This is part one. Ironborn, Unsullied, Freedmen and mercs vs. The Yunkiai'i. Dany's camp will secure the easiest victory ever. After the dust settles, the survivors Tyrion, Vic, etc. will start worrying about the real threat, namely the Volantinian Navy (which is way more capable and probably numerous than the Yunkishmen) and the Sons of the Haroy.

This will give the characters some time to interact and establish relationships (hostile or otherwise) without interference by Dany. And then part two will start.

Volantinian marines vs. Ironborn and other Dany loyalists. Things will start looking bad and then Dany will rush in with her Dothraki horde to save the day.

I don't think the Volantene Fleet is coming so soon. Since Victarion is plagued by the defeat at the Fair Isle and reflected on it while passing the Yaros Straits, I think we will have another battle for that. He will trap the Volantene Fleet in the Yaros straits and smash them. Vicky will make use of Dany's forces on the new ships captured at Meereen. That is how they will get the necessary numbers.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I don't think the Volantene Fleet is coming so soon. Since Victarion is plagued by the defeat at the Fair Isle and reflected on it while passing the Yaros Straits, I think we will have another battle for that. He will trap the Volantene Fleet in the Yaros straits and smash them. Vicky will make use of Dany's forces to on the new ships captured at Meereen. That is how they will get the necessary numbers.

Well the Widow of the Waterfront did tell Ser Jorah that the slaves of Volantis were waiting for her. I imagine she'll get back to Mereen either during or after the attack, and the Volantene slaves will take matters into their own hands.

[horizon]

So, nice... we have the battle for mereen in the first half of the book, and the Naval battle in the second half.

And Danaerys is still in Essos at the beginning of a Dream of Spring.... shizzles.

[Mithras]

So, nice... we have the battle for mereen in the first half of the book, and the Naval battle in the second half.

And Danaerys is still in Essos at the beginning of a Dream of Spring.... shizzles.

I don't think it will take that long. I think by the half of TWoW, Dany will also sack Volantis and get on the way to her last stop in Essos.

[MoIaF]

To me it indicates that the white dragon will be associated with the Starks - either warged or ridden by Bran or Jon.

Agree. We get a hint that Tyrion will be able to use the dragons for his purposes. This really doesn't have to involve any literal dragon riding on his part. He would still count as one of the heads of the dragon, IMHO, if he's indeed a secret Targ with a prominent role in the war for dawn.

But then Tyrion

• wipes the dragon off (a somewhat nurturing gesture, I feel),
• throws it into the air (so it's back in the game),
• catches it again and grins (signifying a successful outcome of that particular move for Tyrion),
• while confirming his allegiance to Dany (a sign that he might be, at least nominally, serving her agenda at that point).

Considering that the white dragon is now also linked even more strongly to the Weirwoods and the Starks, yet Tyrion seems to be able to use it to Dany's benefit, I would see this as forshadowing of all this three forces finding each other at approximately the same side at some point in the future. Maybe Tyrion will be the one who brookers the alliance?

Agreed. Those two colors (white & red) are so associated with Weirwood and the Old Gods and thus the Stark I can't help to think that GRRM is trying to telling something about who the dragon might eventually be bonded to.

[Veltigar]

I don't think the Volantene Fleet is coming so soon. Since Victarion is plagued by the defeat at the Fair Isle and reflected on it while passing the Yaros Straits, I think we will have another battle for that. He will trap the Volantene Fleet in the Yaros straits and smash them. Vicky will make use of Dany's forces on the new ships captured at Meereen. That is how they will get the necessary numbers.

I doubt it. Nothing garantees that the Volantinians would just sail through the bay without a reserve. Furthermore Vic just doesn't have enough men to counter them. He has less than a hundred ships of his own + some vessels he'll salvage from the Yunkishmen. Even if he packs those to the brim with men he'll be vastly out numbered (Volantinians have between 300-500 ships in their fleet IIrC)

On top of that It would make it really hard for Dany to intervene there. The strait is even farther away from Meereen and it would make the Dothraki she will most likely acquire pretty useless. Such a battle would also cost a huge number of ships and they'll be needed further in the book.

Another problem is the lack of reliable intell. They don't have a fixed date for the Volantinian arrival. They weren't that far behind Vic and depending on the commanders choice (through the strait or not? Seek shelter from the storm or not? Repair the damage from the storm or keep going?) they can be there very soon.

Vic's Ironborn need time to rest. They'll need time to resupply, repair the damage to their equipment and patch up their wounded. On top of that they need to select men for their new ships, men who most likely have not much experience with naval warfare. It would not be wise to take the chance of going to that straight.

Best thing they could do is set up a warm welcome for the Volantinians (staying there would also enable Vic to stay put and wait for Dany. If she comes in time he could still leave the place without a fight) Repair the cities defences, dispose of the death and plunder the supplies and stocks of their defeated foe.

Have ships scout for the arrival of the Navy. When they are spotted take your fleet out to open sea, line the Unsullied up on the sands and man the walls. When The Volantinians try to land they will be exposed. Attack the Volantinians in the rear with your boat wile your Unsullied and other troops cut the Volantians down while they are trying to land.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I don't think it will take that long. I think by the half of TWoW, Dany will also sack Volantis and get on the way to her last stop in Essos.

She needs to go first to Vaes dothrak, fullfil the prophecy of the Stallion who mounts the world, unify the Khallasars, go back to Meereen to save the day..

Secure a navy large enough.. sack Volantis on the way... and arrive Westeros by the end of Twow, just in time for the War of the Dawn 2.0 and the Dance of dragon 2.0?

sounds like a tight schedule.

eTA; Btw, just the trip takes arround half a book, give or take..

[Veltigar]

I don't think it will take that long. I think by the half of TWoW, Dany will also sack Volantis and get on the way to her last stop in Essos.

I agree

[Turin Turambar1]

I think the white bloody cyvsse dragon ( Viserion ) could mean Jon's stabbing at the end of ADWD

[Slayer of Lies]

Revisiting this chapter again, while I do see some cool potential symbolic connections to weirwoods (or even to Jon as Ghost) with the blood-covered red/white cyvasse piece, the surface context of the surrounding text does seem to me, at least, to point pretty clearly to Dany.

First up, in the prior paragraph Jorah stabs a Yunkish envoy (a clear sign of open revolt), then – not only does Tyrion say, “All hail our beloved queen, Daenerys” right after picking up the piece – but BBP claims the Second Sons were queen’s men all along. In short, two prior supporters of Dany, one who was exiled and one who left on his own, demonstrate acts of allegiance to Dany/Meereen as “bookends” to Tyrion’s action of picking up of the cyvasse piece, which Tyrion himself follows by saying Dany’s name.

Furthermore, Tyrion thinks of cyvasse fairly frequently in this chapter, which is hardly the only occurrence of an interaction with a cyvasse dragon in the series.

For example, almost certainly Doran’s handing of an onyx dragon to Arianne is meant to symbolize fAegon, and the fact that Doran is sending Arianne to treat with him early in TWOW. Just as Tyrion “pushed his black dragon across a range of mountains” and “flew it across the board” symbolizes Tyrion redirecting fAegon’s company from Meereen to Westeros. Accepting this, we’d have a couple “corroborating” instances where we can point to a Black(fyre?) dragon cyvasse piece being manipulated by players of the “game.”

Meanwhile, from Tyrion’s cyvasse game with Qavo in ADWD, we have another white dragon mention: “[Qavo] moved his catapult again, closed his hand around Tyrion’s alabaster dragon, removed it from the board.” Revisiting this passage while noting how the Meereenese arcs in ADWD leave off, I believe this particular white dragon occurrence can be taken to symbolize the catapults around Meereen, and Dany’s “removal” from the battle by riding Drogon away from the city. Accepting this, we’d in turn “be on the lookout” for additional white cyvasse dragon references to Dany, which Tyrion II seems to provide even more outright be Tyrion hailing allegiance to Dany as he picks up the piece.

Of course, accepting the above support, we’d have the standard “dark knight” versus “white knight” (or Spy vs. Spy) angle to consider as well, again harkening to fAegon as a false dragon and Dany as an authentic one, while noting that they may very well be players who are diametrically opposed to one another in the full scale “game.”

And, yes, it can certainly be noted that Dany rides a black dragon, but I would also suggest that if Tyrion had picked up a black dragon this would be “confusing” for those that accept the black dragon for symbolism of fAegon, beyond the fact that two white dragon cyvasse pieces symbolizing Dany would seem to help a few pieces fall into place as well. Further, fAegon rides no dragon at all (yet), and there are seemingly no green cyvasse dragons, so I don’t think it can unilaterally be assumed at this phase that the color of a cyvasse dragon relates directly to the color of a dragon-rider’s dragon.

Next up, as an alternate angle on symbolizing Dany, perhaps we can accept that blood wouldn’t contrast/stand out as much on a black surface, and so the white surface lined with blood could be seen as a vehicle to present us – more or less – with a “red dragon.” Accepting this possibility also fits in with the usage of black to symbolize fAegon (particularly if he’s a Blackfyre) and Dany (as a true Targaryen).

Or, yet another take, perhaps Dany’s “moonblood” can be inferred from the blood cyvasse dragon, or perhaps instead – we don’t know yet – Dany sustains an injury during her upcoming conflict with Jhaqo, so a white cyvasse dragon covered in blood could be symbolic of her injury or apparent miscarriage.

In any event, and for a wide variety of reasons, it does seem to me that the white cyvasse dragon – given the context – refers to Dany first and foremost, and that the end of the chapter is meant to illustrate a BBP’s foreshadowed change of allegiance to Dany/Meereen which, combined with the Windblown also changing allegiances, would indicate a shift in battle’s the momentum toward those defending Meereen.

Having said all that, none of this goes to say that Tyrion’s two interactions with white cyvasse dragons thus far would rule out possible foreshadowing for him riding a dragon, or that the visual ties to weirwoods, Ghost, or BR are not there, or are not intentional. But context would strongly imply those inferences would be secondary.

However, because of the natural symbolic parallel of “things that are red-and-white,” I think it would be really cool if Tyrion II was followed by Jon’s first POV (as Ghost), by a Bran chapter featuring BR, or by whichever Greyjoy POV is going to pick up where Theon I left off with him being sent to the heart tree, any of which would serve to further the symbolic parallels of the white-and-red cyvasse piece, despite its seemingly more direct ties to Dany in-chapter.

One further, if the red-and-white dragon can also be interpreted to symbolize Jon, citing Jon’s “removal from the board” (i.e. fourth knife) and subsequent warging into red-eyed-Ghost, then Tyrion’s gesture of picking up the white cyvasse dragon could also be interpreted as additional symbolic foreshadowing of R+L=J (i.e. an “ice dragon” red with blood, who “was a man, now a wolf, now a man again.”).

And this, in turn, could be seen to unite Jon, Dany and Tyrion – the three characters’ whose mothers died birthing them – in a way that is distinctly tied to dragons.

Or all that could just be the pot calling the kettle cracked.

[.Scream]

Imagine this:

Bran wargs into the dragon, with help from Bloodraven.

Tyrion awoke with a chill, he moved his hand to steady himself but the ground felt strange. He opened his eyes and saw scales, he looked up and saw nothing but clouds. I'm flying, flying on the back of a dragon. He looked around, This isn't Essos. The dragon steered down all of a sudden, Tyrion gripped tightly to the dragon's neck. He looked up once again, he could see the Wall. The dragon tucked it's wings in and soared down past the other side of the Wall. Tyrion looked down to see what the dragon had seen. Fuck the gods, dead men do walk beyond the Wall.

Haha just to get creative with it.

[RoamingRonin]

I think I need a cigarette. I thoroughly enjoyed that chapter. Action! Finally! I wanted to see the Second Sons actually turn their cloaks and fight but I suppose that will happen off screen.

Knowing the ironborn are fighting on land and at sea makes me eager to read Victarion's chapter.

The Gods did not fashion me to wield a sword, he thought, so why do they keep putting me in battles?

No one heard. No one answered. No one cared.

I felt like his was a big middle finger to all the people that complain about Tyrion fighting in battles and winning. Well, played, GRRM. :lol:

Also when Penny says, "You're not armored..." It's the first line of spoken dialogue in the chapter. Seemed strange to me. Meta-reference to Tyrion's supposed plot armor?

I don't think the plot to lie about Brown Ben switching sides is going to work. Dany has been dwelling on that betrayal for a long time. It's not the first time he's changed his cloak. Considering her attitude at the end of Dance... Brown Ben is doomed.

[Red Raven]

I find it interesting that Tyrion picks up the white dragon while Arianne picks up the black one. A possible hint they'll be on opposite sides of the second Dance.

[horizon]

I find it interesting that Tyrion picks up the white dragon while Arianne picks up the black one. A possible hint they'll be on opposite sides of the second Dance.

Well done, good find.

[The hairy bear]

So, is there anyone who believes Brown Ben Plumm when he says that he intended to betray the Yunkish all along? I don't buy it for a minute!

Reading this chapter has convinced me more than ever that the battle of fire will be split in two.

This is part one. Ironborn, Unsullied, Freedmen and mercs vs. The Yunkiai'i. Dany's camp will secure the easiest victory ever. After the dust settles, the survivors Tyrion, Vic, etc. will start worrying about the real threat, namely the Volantinian Navy (which is way more capable and probably numerous than the Yunkishmen) and the Sons of the Haroy.

Your prediction seems quite likely. If that's what actually happens, not including the first part of the battle in ADWD and not ending the book with the Volantene sails appearing in Mereen is one of the worst editing decisions ever.

[Mithras]

I doubt it. Nothing garantees that the Volantinians would just sail through the bay without a reserve. Furthermore Vic just doesn't have enough men to counter them. He has less than a hundred ships of his own + some vessels he'll salvage from the Yunkishmen. Even if he packs those to the brim with men he'll be vastly out numbered (Volantinians have between 300-500 ships in their fleet IIrC)

On top of that It would make it really hard for Dany to intervene there. The strait is even farther away from Meereen and it would make the Dothraki she will most likely acquire pretty useless. Such a battle would also cost a huge number of ships and they'll be needed further in the book.

The Volantene Fleet is very large and the tigers think that Dany is under siege and has no ship to talk about. So there is no reason for them to be wary. I think they will all rush into the straits. The only thing for them to watch out are the dragons in the air. I bet they have some sort of preparation for them but I don't think that can deter them to split their forces and take caution while passing the Yaros Straits.

I think the number of ships will not matter that much. The point of making this war at the narrow straits is to overcome the disadvantage in numbers, to prevent outflanking by the ships and not fighting all of them at once. Battle on the Ice will take place at a narrow land between two long lakes and Stannis will win against greater numbers.

Another problem is the lack of reliable intell. They don't have a fixed date for the Volantinian arrival. They weren't that far behind Vic and depending on the commanders choice (through the strait or not? Seek shelter from the storm or not? Repair the damage from the storm or keep going?) they can be there very soon.

I think Moqorro proved his reliability. He can surely see the exact time when the Volantene Fleet will rush into the straits.

Vic's Ironborn need time to rest. They'll need time to resupply, repair the damage to their equipment and patch up their wounded. On top of that they need to select men for their new ships, men who most likely have not much experience with naval warfare. It would not be wise to take the chance of going to that straight.

Vic came to Meereen by strong winds due to his blood sacrifice. I think the Volantene Fleet will come much slower and they are much larger than the Iron Fleet. I think the soldiers will have time to rest and Victarion will claim all the usable ships captured from the Yunkish army. They never lack captains so he will assign captains and ironborn to those ships and stiffen them with soldiers from Dany's army.

Meanwhile, from Tyrion’s cyvasse game with Qavo in ADWD, we have another white dragon mention: “[Qavo] moved his catapult again, closed his hand around Tyrion’s alabaster dragon, removed it from the board.” Revisiting this passage while noting how the Meereenese arcs in ADWD leave off, I believe this particular white dragon occurrence can be taken to symbolize the catapults around Meereen, and Dany’s “removal” from the battle by riding Drogon away from the city. Accepting this, we’d in turn “be on the lookout” for additional white cyvasse dragon references to Dany, which Tyrion II seems to provide even more outright be Tyrion hailing allegiance to Dany as he picks up the piece.

The Volantene (Qavo) have nothing to do with those catapults. They are all constructed by the Yunkish army. Besides cyvase is a dangerous game and removing from the board means death. Dany didnot die.