Florina Laufeyson Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 People don't like Penny because she's weak and innocent and needs protecting. But that's probably precisely why she needs to be in his story. Shes not that weak. Shes got a rather strong little heart and i actually like that. What i dont like about her is how she is framed in Tyrion's thoughts. Hes so distracted by her, its grating. So Penny's influence on Tyrion kinda bugs me. Just the way its written. I do love how she snarks at him and dons her own battle clothes. There's strength there. If only that were the case. Sansa and Arya (originally) were weak, innocent, and needing protecting. That's certainly no crime. People don't like Penny because she is annoying. Extremely annoying. Indescribably annoying. Jar-Jar Binks annoying.See above. Like i said, my beef comes from how shes framed in the narrative of Tyrion's chapters. Its more of a beef with Tyrion himself but like, Penny's more gullible moments dont help her case. D: Tyrion as a dragon rider makes me cringe so muchNo. Joke. I think it would be a lot cooler if he became the last Chessmaster of the story and i really think this is whats gonna happen. He wont need to ride a dragon to be a huge presence in whats to come. Moqorro's vision would seem to indicate that Tyrion won't be a rider."Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all."Dis quote. A small man with a very big shadow. A shadow cast over these "dragons", bright or dark, true and false. Snarling in the midst of it all. Littlefinger is Chaos. Varys is Order. Tyrion...it seems to foreshadow that Tyrion could be Neutrality (or something resembling that) pulling strings but not truly picking a side. Right now, hes picked a side, but whos to say he will see it through when shit hits the fan in Westeros? Is it just me or was Tyrion contemplating killing Penny when she was coming on to him? I got a seriously bad feeling from that.He definitely was. He caught himself, but yes he felt that urge. A black hate that came from Shae's image. This is very foreboding and im not sure what direction its going to take Tyrion. I do not think this means he will kill Penny, but maybe someone else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozemarijn Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 can't stand the idea of Tyrion riding a dragon. I think the symbolism of the white dragon piece is pretty straight forward, it represents Dany. Dany is the white dragon and it is very similar to Doran and Arianne's conversation in AFFC where he gives her a black dragon piece which at this point represents Young Griff. This is setting up the future war between Dany and Aegon which is becoming more and more apparent with each chapter. I also find it interesting that Tyrion and Arianne keep the dragon pieces. I like the idea of the symbolism, but I have two remarks. Doran saw the piece as Dany, not Aegon. And at this moment he does not trust Aegon, so it is not Aegon yet. Perhaps it might be, which depends on the judgement of Arianne. I guess she will go along especially when the news of Quentin gets back. And it will get there soon, Barristan is planning to sent his bones home. But on this moment the piece is Dany and his hopes are on her. Second, and fluffy remark. Dany white? She rides the black dragon. If I were George and I would write it I would have switched the colours? Unless it is male against female of course. Everyone supposes Aegon will face Dany. But how will he get himself a dragon? They have to be partners first and he wants it to be. He wants her and she will want her nephew. If anything will come between them it will have to be huge. I have a feeling it will be Dorne. Arianne is already doubting Dany in the sample chapter. When turns out her brother is dead she may turn completely, support Aegon and turn him against her. It might not be difficult, he is young, impulsive and Tyrion has persuaded him before against Dany. Arianne can be persuasive as well, she got a white cloak to rebel! It could not be that hard, minimalise the dragons and get him a little scared, perhaps he does not want to share the throne? Dany would want to rule together and Aegon is immature, would he let her when someone whispers in his ear he should not?By the way you are right about the parallel between the conversations. They both want the same, Doran and Tyrion. Revenge. And so wants Dany, she wants to rule and she wants to free people but she also wants revenge. It is what drives them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The Volantene fleet is crewed by slaves though, if I'm not mistaken. That's probably gonna bite them in the ass big time. I'd be shocked if they didn't turn on their masters. So I'm not expecting much of a battle there myself. The Volantene's alone are bringing like 300-500 ships. Add to that what the Iron Born brought, plus however many Vic captures from the slaving coalition he's currently laying a beat down on, and Dany could have a huge fleet waiting for her by the time she gets back. If there's a twist waiting, I'd guess it would be that this newly gained fleet get's destroyed somehow (infighting? Vic's attempt at "courtship" turns violent?) and Dany has to march overland anyway, after all that struggle. I have a feeling matters will be more convenient than many expect. If Martin, even at this late date, still imagine that only two further books are needed, then the process by which Daenerys makes it to Westeros must necessarily be streamlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It was certainly an action packed chapter and probably my favorite one out of the four released to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladywhiskers Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 How are people comparing notes on this chapter? How are they quoting it? I can't find it anywhere. I'm not sure it exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I absolutely love the sample chapters released thus far and especially Theon and Tyrion. It gives me great hope for the next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm not sure it exists. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I could have done without Tryion's thoughts rehashing so much about past battles and Shae but the rest of the chapter was fun to read. "1) Tyrion's self-loathing has gotten really bad. Like, really really bad. A lot of the chapter is just reminding you of how screwed up this guy is, and how much he's been through, at this point. He's got a lot of guilt and post-traumatic stress and general nastiness, and you sense that he's probably not the safest guy to be around right now. The amount of time spent setting up Tyrion's dreadful state of mind leaves me wondering if Martin is setting him up to do something really terrible later in the book." Did any of you who've read the chapter notice any significant change in Tyrion or potential foreshadowing for Tyrion doing something "really terrible" later in the book (I mean, something worse than what he's already done)? I kind of figured Tyrion had bottomed out--psychologically, morally, everything-ly--in ADWD, but who am I kidding? This is ASOIAF: there's always more down. I didn't think so. Tyrion is still having problems coping and he has no clue what to do about Penny, but I think he's starting to crawl out of it. If he has to do something horrible later I think it'll be because he's between a rock and a hard place and not out of malice, unless it involves Cersei but in that case it would be understandable. Jorah's neck-stab on the Yunkish commander, locking the Windblown into switching back over to Dany, was pretty sweet. Plumm and Jorah and the Windblown will certainly move to rescue the hostages, as Jorah suggests, to prove their loyalty to Dany. Jorah's not having it with the yappy envoys, he's over it and just wants to get stuff done and is even willing to let Ben take the credit. Nice to see him coming back to his old self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 First Tyrion chapter I've enjoyed in a while. Battle of Meereen is turning out pretty epic. Gotta say, those Ironborn are some real tough SOBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 No kidding. Usually the Ironborn make me roll my eyes but I'm happy to see them here. They're badasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I know it seems Tyrion is tied to a dragon, and it may happen but those are Bloodravens colors. Kind of an interesting parallel between him and Bran there. Tyrion with his literal Dragon and Bran with his metaphorical Dragon. It's just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLovinSMU Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I liked the chapter very much, but Jorah seems off in this chapter. Seems like GRRM has Jorah channeling Bronn here by stabbing the messenger in the back and making a remark. This seems like a different character than in the other books and very different than when we last saw Jorah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 "Horselord, try me!" In other words, "Come at me, bro!" Snark during a swordfight is classic Jorah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 No kidding. Usually the Ironborn make me roll my eyes but I'm happy to see them here. They're badasses. Omg. Im not the only one who got Viking raider flashbacks then. Im kinda...<.<>,> rooting for them. :o :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damp Hair - The Prophet Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 The Ironborn are amazing. They were a big part of book 2 & season 2. Season 5 will have greyjoy uncle- not many new characters + S4 deaths = S5 new charcters. It's mostly Stark zealotry or not reading later books that makes newbs despise Theon. Vic + MOQORRO & dragonhorn is the real x-factor for what we know thus far about the battle of Mereen. What is the order of POV chapters to describe the battle do we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It's mostly Stark zealotry or not reading later books that makes newbs despise Theon. I think its like this. Ironborn in Westeros = A Bag Full Of Dicks. Cuz they just look like really big jerks compared to a lot of guys. Ironborn In Meereen = Great Heathen Army To Fuck Your Shit Up. :commie: Cuz they look pretty damn amazing compared to those Essosi putzes. Nice little GRRM subversion there. Make us not root for that lot for most of the series and now...we want em to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Victarion's fleet is tearing the bay to shreds; fire ships, ramming into the Yunkish fleet HULK SMASH! style, sending reavers to attack on land... The Yunkish lordling is screaming at Tyrion and pals to go fight them and the Second Sons are all, "BAU-HAHAHAHA!...No." I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifersonofthemornin Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I don't get it : if the chapter is free, why can't PC owners read it too ? Not everyone has a smartphone...This is so unfair, I really want to read this, it sounds amazing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OberynBlackfyre Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 can't stand the idea of Tyrion riding a dragon. I think the symbolism of the white dragon piece is pretty straight forward, it represents Dany. Dany is the white dragon and it is very similar to Doran and Arianne's conversation in AFFC where he gives her a black dragon piece which at this point represents Young Griff. This is setting up the future war between Dany and Aegon which is becoming more and more apparent with each chapter. I also find it interesting that Tyrion and Arianne keep the dragon pieces. Is it just me or was Tyrion contemplating killing Penny when she was coming on to him? I got a seriously bad feeling from that. I agree with this. Especially since Cyvasse pieces have somewhat been "symbolized" as characters in the book. As such, I think people saying that Doran holding the black dragon means Dany are wrong. This fits even more into him providing effort for Aegon (Blackfyre). The white dragon cyvasse piece most definitely is symbolic, in a couple ways. For one, it's complete weirwood colors, so it could mean that regardless of who rides Viserion, it could be warged? However I feel like that is a little too forward and obvious to mark the dragon with weirwood colors only for it to be the one to be warged. I think what it REALLY means is Dany's return to form. Her whole epiphany at the end of ADWD I think is really important to who she is going to be within the next book. "Dragons don't plant trees" and especially with Quaithe telling her to remember who she is.....and who she is, is a Targaryen queen. Blood of old valyria who conquers with fire and blood. While she cares for people, especially those in slavery or in sufferin, she realizes that she can't be a savior, she is a conqueror. I would say people who think Dany will become a somewhat "villain" could use the cyvasse piece imagery to say that Daenerys is going to drench herself in blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I think its like this. Ironborn in Westeros = A Bag Full Of Dicks. Cuz they just look like really big jerks compared to a lot of guys. Ironborn In Meereen = Great Heathen Army To Fuck Your Shit Up. :commie: Cuz they look pretty damn amazing compared to those Essosi putzes. Nice little GRRM subversion there. Make us not root for that lot for most of the series and now...we want em to win. Got to agree. (I'm kind of surprised you passed up Flokina Stark. :D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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