Colonel Green Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Cersei would have wanted to, sure, but Tywin wouldn't have allowed it Thing is, Tywin believes Tyrion did it, and would probably have believed the same of Sansa. Moreover, a public accusation of the sort Cersei made would be hard to get around, given the circumstances, even if he didn't. This is especially true given that, if she had actually been arrested, the poison would have quite possibly been uncovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Thing is, Tywin believes Tyrion did it, and would probably have believed the same of Sansa. Moreover, a public accusation of the sort Cersei made would be hard to get around, given the circumstances, even if he didn't. This is especially true given that, if she had actually been arrested, the poison would have quite possibly been uncovered.This is true. Even Tyrion mildly suspects Sansa in the books, so I doubt she'd have gotten off Scott-free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Sansa fans, just one tiny little question. That weird eye-roll during the wedding ("We have a new queen"), why was that about? Didn't she always get along with Margaery in the show as well?Compared with her actual comments in the book about what a lovely ceremony it was, it jarred. I suspect it was a way of incorporating some of her disillusionment about KL that has been missed in previous seasons such as her noting the same crowd that tried to kill her welcomed Marg into the city with open arms. But who knows.ST was fantastic in this episode, and it is such a shame her storyline has been cut up to this point. Hopefully now that she is not in KL her scenes will get better. There were a lot of filler scenes in this episode (Olenna and Tywin for example) that could have been swapped with a short scene of Sansa meeting Dontos before the Wedding, for him to propose an escape. It would have been nice to see her as an active participant in her own escape as she was in the books, but at least her scenes will no longer be hampered by the focus having to be on St Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensleeves Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Sophie Turner is doing such a great job this season! I'm so excited to see her arc with LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 It would have been nice to see her as an active participant in her own escape as she was in the books, but at least her scenes will no longer be hampered by the focus having to be on St Tyrion. I bet it will continue from a distance, whoever wrote the viewer's guide, while making sure to take the name Sansa Stark from her, neglected to mention she was forcibly married, and felt that was a very important point to make the point that Tyrion always treated her with the utmost respect. She doesn't even star in her own bio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 At the same time Olenna takes the stone from Sansa's necklace, listen to what she's saying. She's condemning Lannister actions at the Red Wedding, implying Joffery since he claims credit for winning the war, and subtly calling him a monster for killing a man at a wedding. Notice she also implies herself with this line, albeit a more graceful and wise monster. And as Tyrion says: Monsters are Dangerous. But the conversation about the RW also reveals Olenna's motive for involving Sansa at all: Justice. Olenna likes Sansa and thinks that what was done to her family was a crime. She also knows Sansa is not in any position to seek any redress of this. So, planning on killing Joffery anyway, she arranges to have the instrument of Joffery's death be borne by the last of the Stark family. That Sansa knew nothing was simply done to protect her, but still... The Starks send their regarrrrrrds. Olenna put on a show of "this is how you wield power." Joffery is dead. Margery is the queen, or at least has a claim the Lannisters can't ignore. The Starks got some justice. Dontos isn't the type the Lannisters/Joffery would be monitoring, and he and Sansa are entering Witness Protection. No one suspects the Tyrells at all despite the fact that she did it in front of ALL the Lannisters, the Kingsguard and all the Lords of the Realm. Well Played Lady Olenna Justice, I can see that to a point. She does mention when first meeting Sansa that she knew her grandfather Rickard and that Ned had been known for being "honorable". I think Lady Oleana was still hoping to get Sansa to marry Ser Loras on the tv show and in the books to Willas. Sansa is the last known living Stark and heir to the North. They all want her claim, in the books and on HBO. (yes, that includes EVERYONE). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I bet it will continue from a distance, whoever wrote the viewer's guide, while making sure to take the name Sansa Stark from her, neglected to mention she was forcibly married, and felt that was a very important point to make the point that Tyrion always treated her with the utmost respect. She doesn't even star in her own bio.Ouch. Clearly not written by anyone who had read the book and her near rape at the hands of Tyrion then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Ouch. Clearly not written by anyone who had read the book and her near rape at the hands of Tyrion then. Well, since the viewer's guide is based on show canon and not book canon, that's hardly surprising, is it? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well, since the viewer's guide is based on show canon and not book canon, that's hardly surprising, is it? :DNo not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koi No Yokan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 As much as I admire Sansa's strength and trials throughout the books, Sophie Turner's portrayal is what actually brought me around to liking the character. That might be blasphemy for some Sansa fans, but whatever. She's been fantastic in both episodes this season so far; looking forward to her time in the Eyrie. I wonder if we'll get the Winterfell scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Thing is, Tywin believes Tyrion did it, and would probably have believed the same of Sansa. Moreover, a public accusation of the sort Cersei made would be hard to get around, given the circumstances, even if he didn't. This is especially true given that, if she had actually been arrested, the poison would have quite possibly been uncovered. Well, yeah, but Tywin really had no use for Tyrion. Killing Sansa, on the other hand, could have easily re-ignited the war with the North. Tywin's nothing if not practical, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 There was nothing respectful about keeping her hostage after his family murdered her father, and she was at the mercy of Joffrey, they all knew this was going on, or could have known, or waging war against her brother, or forcibly marrying her, and as the scene with Shae showed, she narrowly escaped rape, just by being in that situation, she was very likely to be raped by him or by another Lannister in the not too distant future, he did what daddy said, and daddy was pretty ruthless and not with endless patience. Her life as she knew it, all her hopes and dreams, were shattered. And now she's in the midst of a regicide plot. I don't think the term the utmost respect can be used in a situation like this, under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 But Le Cygne, it is St Tyrion and he can do no wrong......All of your reasons above are ample explanation of why he didn't treat her well. Yet the show has chosen to run with the bodice ripper trope of forced marriage to an enemy being really what you needed all along and forget your own decisions and dreams because they are clearly going to be stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 There was nothing respectful about keeping her hostage after his family murdered her father, and she was at the mercy of Joffrey, they all knew this was going on, or could have known, or waging war against her brother, or forcibly marrying her, and as the scene with Shae showed, she narrowly escaped rape, just by being in that situation, she was very likely to be raped by him or by another Lannister in the not too distant future, he did what daddy said, and daddy was pretty ruthless and not with endless patience. Her life as she knew it, all her hopes and dreams, were shattered. And now she's in the midst of a regicide plot. I don't think the term the utmost respect can be used in a situation like this, under any circumstances. That's why I love Olenna more for framing that fucker. Sansa would have been 1000000x times happier with Willas, I bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 The general reaction I've seen from unsullied viewers who have generally disliked Sansa has been remarkably positive for this episode. And I think that is in large part due to Sophie Turner's spectacular acting. I loved someone's comment from the last page about Sophie's face being a canvas. She conveys so much with only her eyes. I am still a little bummed by the fact that they've removed Sansa's agency regarding her active role in her own escape, but I do not agree that she has been relegated to furniture. Her survival in King's Landing has been completely determined by her ability to internalize everything, to maintain her inner strength and grace. Anyway. I think we can all agree that from this point on, Sansa will not be furniture. She's going to be sharing a very major subplot in the series from here on out, including a location that will predominantly focus on her and Littlefinger. Regarding Margaery: I think by the end of Joffrey's little tirade, it became absolute clear that Margaery does not have the control over him that she initially thought. She keeps doing her best to pull him back, but the whole War of the 5 Kings debacle just kind of showed her increasing annoyance with him. That was Joffrey acting in front of everyone in the court. Imagine how he would have been behind closed doors. All it takes for Joffrey is one imagined slight. Margaery is good but she's not that good, she's still learning ... as has been demonstrated by the QoT in the first episode of this season ... and from the glimpse we got in the preview for the next episode. It would have been marvelous, and fairly easy to do, to have Dontos set up, in one conversation with Sansa, an escape during the wedding, so at least she could have been seen to participating in the attempt to gain her freedom. Margaery might have thought at one point that she could control the little monster of a king, and initially (last season) it was shown that she could influence him. But it's one thing to influence a teenaged boy who's impressed by a sophisticated older woman and another thing entirely to continue that influence as the teenaged boy grows up into the most powerful man in Westeros, especially if he's a vicious sociopath who gets sexually aroused by hurting people and animals (as in the shows). Margaery would have ended up with bruises and welts at the least; though Joffrey might have abstained from more severe injuries (or killing her) if she gave him a son or two. I think the Queen of Thorns, who was older and wiser than Margaery, and knew how a husband's attitude could change over time, figured out very quickly that Joffrey would have to be killed in order for Margaery to remain safe as a nominal Baratheon queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberia Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Justice, I can see that to a point. She does mention when first meeting Sansa that she knew her grandfather Rickard and that Ned had been known for being "honorable". I think Lady Oleana was still hoping to get Sansa to marry Ser Loras on the tv show and in the books to Willas. Sansa is the last known living Stark and heir to the North. They all want her claim, in the books and on HBO. (yes, that includes EVERYONE). I don't fault the Tyrells for that. Arranged political marriage usually are mutually beneficial, and the Starks weren't being shafted. Sansa would get her fairytale marriage/life and be safe. Remember she's a girl....no matter who she marries, the Stark line ends with her (so far as anyone knows). Winterfell WILL pass to another family. Period. No matter what. So what family should get the Keys to the North? The Lannisters or the Tyrells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetJeyne Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 The series messed up, though. The way they played it, Margeary really did seem to have control over Joffrey, even at the wedding. Cersei's fears about that were justified. In the series, it doesn't logically follow that they would want Joffrey dead. They seemed to have control of the king. Totally agree. The Tyrells are taking an enormous risk, and it makes much less sense if we don't see Margaery under threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahri Adaran Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I don't fault the Tyrells for that. Arranged political marriage usually are mutually beneficial, and the Starks weren't being shafted. Sansa would get her fairytale marriage/life and be safe. Remember she's a girl....no matter who she marries, the Stark line ends with her (so far as anyone knows). Winterfell WILL pass to another family. Period. No matter what. So what family should get the Keys to the North? The Lannisters or the Tyrells? Just like the Stark line ended when Bael the Bard fathered a lord of Winterfell? We've seen family names pass through the female line before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebevan91 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Sophie Turner is doing such a great job this season! I'm so excited to see her arc with LF. Sansa's chapters post-royal wedding were amazing. Such a bummer we didn't get any of her in A Dance with Dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Cat Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I did like Sophie Turner's reactions to the jousts. Living hell, anyone ? In any case "come with me if you want to live" - the Dontonator ? :lol: i think the whole reaction was very well done, the queens (both of them) and loras too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.