World of Ice and Fire extract to be available

[eggs]

Whoa, Cat didnt get any say in naming her babies? WTF Ned? and Branda?

The Year of the False Spring?

The Stoneborn of Skagos?

Then Kings of Winter?

YES!

That art is incredible. I cant wait for this shit to drop.

[The Wolves]

Whoa, Cat didnt get any say in naming her babies? WTF Ned? and Branda?

The Year of the False Spring?

The Stoneborn of Skagos?

Then Kings of Winter?

YES!

That art is incredible. I cant wait for this shit to drop.

Catelyn probably was the one to name her daughters after Stark ladies, Catelyn is completely devoted to House Stark anyways.

I don't think Ned named Sansa and Arya, I think Catelyn was one day learning about Stark history and liked those names.

[HexMachina]

Lyanna seems to have been named for.her mother

ETA: Wyalla Fenn (not.Wylla :p) sounds like a crannogwoman? Apart from her last name, Wyalla sounds very similar to. Jyanna

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Lyanna seems to have been named for.her mother

ETA: Wyalla Fenn (not.Wylla :P) sounds like a crannogwoman? Apart from her last name, Wyalla sounds very similar to. Jyanna

The first time I saw that name, I almost fell off of my seat, because I originally thought it said Frey O_o... Imagine my relief when I looked again and saw it said Fenn....

[Mithras]

I think the woman Dunk kissed in Bran's vision was not Old Nan. He liked to kiss highborn widows. My guess is that the woman was Sansa Stark.

As for the Old Nan, perhaps we were loooking for her in the wrong place.

I think the pregnant woman in Bran's vision might be Old Nan, who was probably a wildling and captured at the Battle of Longlake. She was employed as a wetnurse for the step brother of Edwyle Stark. That Brandon Stark must be an infant after 226 and died shortly after from a summer chill. We know that from 221 to 228 (first 7 years of Maekar's reign), a hot summer persisted.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I think the woman Dunk kissed was not Old Nan. He liked to kiss highborn widows. My guess is that the woman was Sansa Stark.

As for the Old Nan, perhaps we were loooking for her in the wrong place.

I think the pregnant woman in Bran's vision might be Old Nan, who was probably a wildling and captured at the Battle of Longlake. She was employed as a wetnurse for the step brother of Edwyle Stark. That Brandon Stark must be an infant after 226 and died shortly after from a summer chill. We know that from 221 to 228 (first 7 years of Maekar's reign), a hot summer persisted.

We know that there was a hot summer during Maekars' reign, lasting 7 years, not that they were the frirst 7 years of his reign.

Also, wouldn't it make more sense if Brandon was older than Edwyle, and that Willam remarried because his first wife had died birthing Brandon, or because his only heir, Brandon, had died? With Rickard's eldest son born in 260/261AC, that might be pushing it for Edwyle not having been born yet, making the woman unlikely to be Young Nan.

[Arataniello]

Unless it's a typo, the Lorra Royce who married Beron Stark could have been an aunt or cousin of the Lorra Royce who married Artos Stark. This doesn't mention if either Lorra Royce was from the senior or junior branch of the Royces, so for all we know there was one from each. But we do know Lorra Royce (Beron's wife) will have a granddaughter (Edwyle's sister) who marries into the junior branch of the Royces, though this family tree doesn't mention that. It's possible that that Stark girl married the younger son of the junior Royce branch because her grandmother was from that branch and wanted to strengthen her family's ties to the more-powerful Starks. (The same might be true for Artos's marriage.) Beron's wife stands a good shot of being one of the She-Wolves, and presumably they got that nickname for a reason.

I am going to go with Ran's statement that the Stark tree is not final. When the final one is published, I think one of the Lorras might have changed to something else.

[Mithras]

We know that there was a hot summer during Maekars' reign, lasting 7 years, not that they were the frirst 7 years of his reign.

Also, wouldn't it make more sense if Brandon was older than Edwyle, and that Willam remarried because his first wife had died birthing Brandon, or because his only heir, Brandon, had died? With Rickard's eldest son born in 260/261AC, that might be pushing it for Edwyle not having been born yet, making the woman unlikely to be Young Nan.

I think the mother of Edwyle and his sister might die first and then William remarries and fathers Brandon. However, he dies at Longlake and then Brandon dies from a chill.

In either case, both Brandon and Edwyle should be very small in 226. I think Artos became the Lord Regent and ruled for quite a time so that Edwyle made a statue of him because of his deeds. We also know that when Rickard was born, that unusually long summer was already forgotten as Pycelle reminded to Ned.

I think Edwyle fathered Rickard at early age and died young. That way he was not able to father siblings to Rickard. I think he fought and died at the War of the Ninepenny Kings while Rickard was the Stark in Winterfell. I think Rickard was born around the same time with Blackfish (245-250).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I think the mother of Edwyle and his sister might die first and then William remarries and fathers Brandon. However, he dies at Longlake and then Brandon dies from a chill.

In either case, both Brandon and Edwyle should be very small in 226. I think Artos became the Lord Regent and ruled for quite a time so that Edwyle made a statue of him because of his deeds. We also know that when Rickard was born, that unusually long summer was already forgotten as Pycelle reminded to Ned.

I think Edwyle fathered Rickard at early age and died young. That way he was not able to father siblings to Rickard. I think he fought and died at the War of the Ninepenny Kings while Rickard was the Stark in Winterfell. I think Rickard was born around the same time with Blackfish (245-250).

The Blackfish was born in between 243 ad 246AC, as per Jaime's observations.

Edwyle could have died young, but his sister lived, married a Vale lord, and had several offspring.

And the summer of Maekar's reign might have been long forgotten when Rickard is born, but Maekars reign in total lasted only 12 years, so there still is a 5 year gap, and it doesn't necessarily mean that those 7 years of summer took place from 221 until 228.

[Mithras]

The Blackfish was born in between 243 ad 246AC, as per Jaime's observations.

Edwyle could have died young, but his sister lived, married a Vale lord, and had several offspring.

And the summer of Maekar's reign might have been long forgotten when Rickard is born, but Maekars reign in total lasted only 12 years, so there still is a 5 year gap, and it doesn't necessarily mean that those 7 years of summer took place from 221 until 228.

But still, he reigned 12 years. He lived a 7 years old summer (which was extremely unusual). Then a short autumn and a long winter came. I think a long winter after a 7 years of summer should persist for a couple of years. As a result, the long summer must be at the early reign of Maekar.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Is this the sample that Ran promised us? :o

That's tomorrow :)

[Arataniello]

Two samples beyond the one we are getting "from Ran". Are these legitimate/sanctioned?

Updated - the illegal excerpt hosted on a Hungarian site has been expunged from the thread by Ran.

[Ran]

What's on Edelweiss is legitimate and can be discussed, though as I said the PDF there is probably not intended for consumption outside of retailers and publishers, hence the very early draft of the Stark tree with a bunch of editorial notes and a lack of copyediting.

That and my excerpt tomorrow are what RH have approved, and it's all right to discuss them.

[Mladen]

Oh, dear... I am so happy these days... Not only that I found out that Amazon apparently delivers to Serbia couple of days ago, which made me so happy, but Sansa is a Northern name? Oh, I am dancing now of joy and happiness... Ran, thank you, thank you so much... This is just last nail I needed for some work of mine...

Sansa is a Northern name...I am crying of happiness now. Take that, haters.

[Lord Varys]

Mladen,

was this ever in doubt? We never encountered a Sansa-like name in the South before, and it was always pretty clear that all of Ned's children seemed to bear Northern or Stark names.

On the Stark family tree:

The fact that Lord Cregan had to wives with many children could be a hint that some sort of 'minor Dance' was about to break out when Dunk & Egg visit Winterfell in the next story. There are two branches of House Stark, which were reunited by the marriage of Edric Stark to Serena Stark. If the Norrey-Stark Rickon was passed over for the younger son Brandon Stark whose mother was Lynara Stark (just speculation on my part), Edric's children/wife may press their claims after Beron is slowly dying...

[Mladen]

Mladen,

was this ever in doubt? We never encountered a Sansa-like name in the South before, and it was always pretty clear that all of Ned's children seemed to bear Northern or Stark names.

Well, for quite some time people argued that Catelyn named Sansa with the name from the South and they used: Minisa, Lysa as "proofs". That being said, I am thrilled to have closed yet another "Sansa not Northerner" argument.

[Lord Varys]

Empty post.

[Lord Varys]

Okay, sorry, didn't know that this excerpt was published without permission. Stuff is gone.

[Free Northman Reborn]

On Braavos: We always knew Braavos's location was discovered before the Doom, and that its existence was discovered two centuries before that, even.

Now, onto the first thing that jumped out at me. This was in the Table of Contents: It is VERY interesting the order in which the historical events are depicted.

Note that the major events follow the traditional historical order up to a point:

First the Dawn Age, followed by

The Coming of the First Men

The Age of Heroes

The Long Night

Then the order changes from the traditional history.

The Rise of Valyria moves to before the Arrival of the Andals in Westeros.

And then the normally understood order follows again up to the Targaryen Conquest.

I think this settles once and for all - as far as the Maesters official history goes, the timeline of the historical migrations into Westeros, and gives us some answers into the overall historical timeline of the entire world.

Clearly, the Valyrians only rose after the Long Night. We always knew this, but some were disputing this, trying to move the Long Night forward to a more recent date. According to the Maesters, this is clearly not the case.

Furthermore, it is clear from that chronology in the Table of Contents that Valyria arose BEFORE the Andal migration to Westeros. This contradicts the original historical timeline, which placed the Andal arrival at 6000 years ago, but is pretty much accepted based on the revised timelines we have been given in the books.

At least we have confirmation now.

Very nice information.

The overall effect is that this information:

Confirms the early date of the First Man arrival in Westeros.

Confirms the early date of the Long Night.

Pushes the Andal migration forward by many millennia.

So Westerosi civilization is still as old as it was depicted as back in Game of Thrones. It is just the Andal arrival that is far more recent than was earlier stated.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Question:

How do the Maesters know the geography a thousand miles beyond Hardhome? Have ships actually sailed that far to map it? Have explorers trekked across the ice?