The Wire rewatch: I Went to Hampsterdam and All I Got Were These Lousy Spiderbags

[Summah]

I'm moving this week and haven't had a chance to watch the episodes, and probably won't at least until the weekend or next week. Can someone else do this weeks episodes?

[RumHam]

Probably not the bleakest end of a season, but it's gotta be up there.

It bothers me that they tell Frank to come back tomorrow with a lawyer and offer him no kind of protection. Maybe just because I know how it's gonna end for him. Also if meeting with dangerous criminals is the only way to possibly save your son from a lengthy jail sentence, at least meet them at the mall or something. Not under a bridge. Come on, Frank.

That sequence of the paperwork traveling through the FBI offices and ultimately leading to Franks death is so tense. The scene of Ziggy and his father in jail is heartbreaking. I've seen people in the past read into the "same blood doesn't flow in my veins" line and claim it's a hint that Frank is not Ziggy's father. I personally do not read it that way but I'm curious what others think. (The wikipedia article on Bad Dreams even says: "Ziggy tells Frank he knows he is not his real son")

Maybe the only bit of humor comes from Serge. "Why always Boris?" The Greek gets away of course, but at a price. He forgot his little thing of beads.

The finale also features a rare instance of Valcheck not being a total tool. Anyone know what he said in polish there?

[Mr. X]

The finale also features a rare instance of Valcheck not being a total tool. Anyone know what he said in polish there?

"Rest in peace."

[RumHam]

Ah, thanks.

[Durckad]

Okay, question here for all the bigger Wire-Nuts out there. Agent Koutris, was he really just protecting his informant in the Greek or was he actually corrupt and going beyond the bounds of the law with what he did? Fitzhugh says it's the former but Koutris and the Greek seem a bit more buddy, buddy than that relationship. Plus, considering all of the information Koutris does divulge (giving up that Frank is now an informant for example), most of which seems beyond the realms of a simple agent-informant arrangement. Is this simply a case of Simon showing how different departments in the same agencies often don't work with each other or is there something more sinister going on? This seems far beyond the level of Landsman fucking up and not telling Daniels about Ziggy.

I don't know, I'd probably say Season 2 has the bleakest ending of any in the show. I guess Season 4 might get that dubious honor as well, but I've only watched that once so I'll have to see if it hits me as hard this time around as it did the last. The rest all have at least a few rays of sunshine, even if they amount to diddly in the end.

I never took that line between Frank and Ziggy to be about whether Ziggy was really his son. It was more just about how different they were from each other or how different they perceive each other to be. Nothing else in the show gives question to the fact and frankly, if it was true, it would frankly be a stupid inclusion. What would it add to the show aside from maybe explaining why Frank doesn't seem to care much about Ziggy. Making Frank negligent and more concerned with the fate of the docks than with his own son is much more powerful, IMO. It's not like it would be a small bit of character background that illuminates the character but is ultimately unimportant in the grand scheme of things, like Rawls being gay. So yeah, just...no.

[Talleyrand]

Okay, question here for all the bigger Wire-Nuts out there. Agent Koutris, was he really just protecting his informant in the Greek or was he actually corrupt and going beyond the bounds of the law with what he did? Fitzhugh says it's the former but Koutris and the Greek seem a bit more buddy, buddy than that relationship. Plus, considering all of the information Koutris does divulge (giving up that Frank is now an informant for example), most of which seems beyond the realms of a simple agent-informant arrangement. Is this simply a case of Simon showing how different departments in the same agencies often don't work with each other or is there something more sinister going on? This seems far beyond the level of Landsman fucking up and not telling Daniels about Ziggy.

I always trusted Fitzhugh's appraisal of it - while telling him that Frank was the mole rather than just telling him that he was about to be informed on and should get the hell out might be classed as going beyond the norm the Greek just gave him a huge catch and I can't fault Koutris for making especially sure that his informant stayed out of the firing range

[Paladin of Ice]

I've fallen well behind on rewatching at this point, being only a few episodes into the second season, so I'm working from memory on a couple of things in this post, sorry if it turns out that I'm remembering any of it wrong.

It bothers me that they tell Frank to come back tomorrow with a lawyer and offer him no kind of protection

For what it's worth, you can kinda justify this by saying that they are trying to get Frank to cooperate willingly, and also by remembering the sorry state of any kind of witness protection in Baltimore, which among other things later becomes a big issue during Carcetti's run for Mayor, and even winds up helping him nail Royce's hide to a wall. (With the extra irony that in that particular case, the death of the witness was an accident rather than a murder.) The FBI might have been helpful in that regard, but then their main

Speaking from a more thematic perspective, Frank, representing as he did the American working middle class and organized labor, HAD to die. The show is all about the American Dream falling apart, the decay of society and societal institutions that are supposed to protect it, and how those institutions have been either taken over by people who want to use them for personal gain (hello, Clay Davis) or that the institutions have basically only become about protecting and preserving the institution itself rather than actually helping people. (Hello Baltimore PD, Baltimore schools, City Hall, CPS, etc.)

Point is, no one in a position of power cares about the well being of the everyday working man. They've been perfectly content to let the worker languish and die a piece at a time, and when the union attempted to try to fight for its survival and reinvigoration, it promptly got busted and broken up for corruption, while the corruption of say, City Hall, or Andy Krawczyk the real estate developer working with drug dealers, the school board president whose schools are teaching kids with 3rd edition books while 5th editions and brand new equipment sit in the basement (perhaps similar to a story from last year about school officials busted for stealing and reselling school textbooks for personal profits) and who benefitted the most and most directly from the docks dying off.

Not for nothing does season begin with a big fancy yacht named Capital Gains with spoiled socialites partying non-stop even as it's being towed past a dying pier. (Although frankly I only saw the full symbolism in that as I was formulating this post.)

I've seen people in the past read into the "same blood doesn't flow in my veins" line and claim it's a hint that Frank is not Ziggy's father. I personally do not read it that way but I'm curious what others think.

Honestly it would have never even occurred to me think of it as somehow being literal, to me it just seems to parallel statement that will come later in regards to Namond and Wee-bey about how being family doesn't mean that two people will be the same. More an exploration of tropes like "Inadequate Inheritor" and "I Am Not My Father". (You guys might not want to click on those links if you don't want a bunch of your free time to disappear down a black hole. :P ) Plus the show is all about how things cyclical, (we see character take the place of other characters from the older generation, such as Michael becoming Omar, Dukie becoming Bubbles, etc.) but that doesn't necessarily mean that those cycles are solely within a family; D'Angelo is not Avon, Namond isn't Wee-bey, and Ziggy isn't Frank.

Maybe the only bit of humor comes from Serge. "Why always Boris?" The Greek gets away of course, but at a price. He forgot his little thing of beads.

Gotta say that for a guy who kills people, then cuts off their hands and faces to keep their bodies from being identified, Sergei always took the whole Boris thing really well. On my first watch I always felt like it was inevitable that in one episode or another someone would call him Boris at the wrong time and he'd completely go off on them.

[all swedes are racist]

Okay, question here for all the bigger Wire-Nuts out there. Agent Koutris, was he really just protecting his informant in the Greek or was he actually corrupt and going beyond the bounds of the law with what he did? Fitzhugh says it's the former but Koutris and the Greek seem a bit more buddy, buddy than that relationship. Plus, considering all of the information Koutris does divulge (giving up that Frank is now an informant for example), most of which seems beyond the realms of a simple agent-informant arrangement. Is this simply a case of Simon showing how different departments in the same agencies often don't work with each other or is there something more sinister going on? This seems far beyond the level of Landsman fucking up and not telling Daniels about Ziggy.

I don't know, I'd probably say Season 2 has the bleakest ending of any in the show. I guess Season 4 might get that dubious honor as well, but I've only watched that once so I'll have to see if it hits me as hard this time around as it did the last. The rest all have at least a few rays of sunshine, even if they amount to diddly in the end.

I never took that line between Frank and Ziggy to be about whether Ziggy was really his son. It was more just about how different they were from each other or how different they perceive each other to be. Nothing else in the show gives question to the fact and frankly, if it was true, it would frankly be a stupid inclusion. What would it add to the show aside from maybe explaining why Frank doesn't seem to care much about Ziggy. Making Frank negligent and more concerned with the fate of the docks than with his own son is much more powerful, IMO. It's not like it would be a small bit of character background that illuminates the character but is ultimately unimportant in the grand scheme of things, like Rawls being gay. So yeah, just...no.

re: Koutris and the Greek

Yes, Koutris was certainly behaving illegally in his protection of the Greek. There is a very definite Bulger/Connolly thing going on, which made me wonder how far back their relationship went, like were they family friends? Did the Greek know Koutris from before he was FBI, possibly encouraging his career? Not all that far-fetched, as we've seen it happen in real life.

Then again, the Greeks management style seems to rely at least as heavily on "the carrot" as "the stick", so they could have just met in San Diego, or before, and the Greek kept offering increasingly sweeter incentives to Koutris, and their relationship grew from there. Either way, Koutris dances to the Greeks beat, and is guilty of gross malfeasance, not mere negligent misjudgment.

[Summah]

I'm caught up with the rewatch now. This is my third attempt at posting this. Safaris forced reloads ate my first two attempts, after this I give up. About the end of season two, I don't think it's more depressing than the end of say season four or one. What Michael and Dukie become is tragic and season one's montage shows dope dealing as usual all over Baltimore, despite the busts nothing really changed and that is pretty bleak and depressing. I think for some viewers it may be easier to personally relate to the docks plot, so that informs how those viewers see the endings in terms of tragedy. For me, I find the whole white working class, blue collar, union thing very strange and I don't have much experience with this culture, so I find it harder to relate to, though I agree the decline is another symptom of a larger problem as a previous poster said.

Now on to season three: Time After Time & All Due Respect

Important people and things are introduced quickly: Carcetti, Marlo, Cutty, Melvin Williams (because of his real life influence), the high rise projects coming down, the beginning of Colvin and Hampsterdam.

This political stuff is interesting, I've always thought one of Baltimore's biggest political problems is short term thinking (evidenced by things like tearing down Lexington Terrace IRL which were the inspiration for Franklin Terrace and now giving away high rise projects to developers who must maintain them, fix them and keep them as subsidized housing for 20 years after which they can be turned into market rate apartments, way to go Baltimore, I know you have trouble maintaining these, but 28,000 people on your waiting list for the projects, 8 years for section 8 (and applications for that are closed) and you want to get rid of thousands of units of subsidized housing further increasing the housing crisis in 20 years, that's really some good, strategic, long-term planning there. And of course juking the stats). And Carcetti, that actor is very good at playing manipulative creepers, obviously Littlefinger is way creepier and more manipulative than Carcetti, but this might have been his audition tape. And I really want all the O'Malley 16 people to watch the Wire, because really you want that guy (or close enough, the affair might be fictional, but the politics, manipulation, juking the stats, ridiculous ambition etc are not) to be president?

Also Method Man is just not up the same level of quality acting as the rest of the cast.

I think someone should make a drinking game based on when McNulty screws up his accent.

[Summah]

Anyone else still watching? So this week was Dead Soldiers and Hampsterdam.

Lots of cops being assholes. Colvin's telling the truth and no one wants to hear it. Barksdale crew getting in lots of beefs and Stringer don't wanna deal with it, but Avon will be back and ready to fight. Hampsterdam is opening for business. I think what's funniest about the name Hamsterdam isn't that it's just based on some uneducated drug deal dealer mishearing Amsterdam and then mispronouncing it, it's Herc saying that Amsterdam is neutral territory like Switzerland, which he was somehow conflating with coffee shops and decriminalization maybe, who knows, Herc is an idiot.

[Talleyrand]

I unfortunately seemed to have given my Season 3 dvd to a friend so I'll have to sit this season out

[Larry of the Lawn]

Method man was perfect for some scenes, like when Bunk and McNulty have him in interrogation. "Lawyer time!"

I love the Hamsterdam plot line, although the way it played out was predictably sad and frustrating. The world needs more Bunny Colvins.

[Mark Antony]

I thought meth was great in that scene. Crying about his dog when Bunk and Mcnutty thought he was talking about a dude he killed. Good stuff and the acting was fine imo

[Summah]

Straight & True and Homecoming

Hamsterdam is open for business. The Barksdale/Stanfield war is on. Cutty has left the game. and Carcetti is playing games with people. I think it's so bizarre how someone can be good enough at the game to be second in command to a drug kingpin, but get fleeced by politician. McNulty is such an asshole.

Sorry I don't have a lot this week, I had more things I noticed in my head, but I had a really severe migraine between when I watched them and today, so barring another rewatch, that's really all I have.

Talleyrand, if you have amazon prime all five seasons (and I think most of hbo's back catalogue of shows that aren't current) are streaming there.

[Nictarion]

Just saw HBO is showing the entire series in HD for the first time. It starts September 4. It's about damn time!

[RumHam]

Just saw HBO is showing the entire series in HD for the first time. It starts September 4. It's about damn time!

Oh nice. It's sorta sucky timing with the rewatch being half over and all, but still cool.

Edit: Do you know if they're gonna change the aspect ratio?

[Summah]

Interesting about the HD. I don't have cable, much less HBO anymore, so I guess I'll have to wait for that one.

This week's eps are Back Burners and Moral Midgetry.

I like the way the Hamsterdam scene from Bubbles perspective is filmed. He's been a junkie for however many years, but that place is trippy and scary to him and most people who see it for the first time running full strength find it disturbing, unlike those who saw it build up slowly.

McNulty manipulating Prez into researching Carcetti's campaign advisor is really low, even for him. And the whole racist schtick with the cop in that town, such an asshole.

The irony of Little Melvin being the first to really Colvin out on the horrors of Hamsterdam is fantastic.

The last scene with Stringer and Avon is probably one of the best acted scenes in all five seasons. I don't know what else to say about it, I'm not sure I noticed anything new, just blown away as I was whenever I saw it before.

[Castel]

To be honest, I still have no idea why McNulty felt the need to pretend to be a racist. The guy gave no indication that he wouldn't cooperate. Did he just feel like being in the skin of a racist that day?

[Jack Bauer 24]

Is this the greatest show of all time?

[Mark Antony]

Is this the greatest show of all time?

One of them