Darth Richard II Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The how much he left behind in notes stuff is interesting, because I remember his um, assistant? Guy who ran DM? Brother in Law? I forget who exactly, but they talked about a dinner they had with RJ and Harriet a bit after book 11 came out where RJ basically told them the entirety of the remaining story and how everything ended. So I always figured that if Sanderson really f'ed something up, you know, RJ's widow and editor might have pointed that out. But no you're right, its all Sandesron's fault somehow, that mormon hatemonger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I've never understood what the Sanderson haters want; no books? Just unedited transcripts of RJ's notes????I remember at the AMoL signing, BS said that there were bigger WoT fans than him and there were better writers than him; but in that Venn diagram of "pretty good writers that are also WoT fans" overlap he felt he was a great choice. When put that way, I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The how much he left behind in notes stuff is interesting, because I remember his um, assistant? Guy who ran DM? Brother in Law? I forget who exactly, but they talked about a dinner they had with RJ and Harriet a bit after book 11 came out where RJ basically told them the entirety of the remaining story and how everything ended. So I always figured that if Sanderson really f'ed something up, you know, RJ's widow and editor might have pointed that out. But no you're right, its all Sandesron's fault somehow, that mormon hatemonger!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P2xnOGmDJs The video goes into great detail about what was Brandon's and what was RJ's. Basically, RJ left very little about Rand for the events around him in tGS. Perrin in ToM was almost entirely Brandon (all RJ said was there would be some sort of confrontation with the Whitecloaks). We know a ton of Mat in tGS, especially Hinderstap, was all Brandon. He also says that major details of the Last Battle were left to him (all RJ said, apparently, was that Rand needed to learnt to laugh before facing the Dark One, and that he needed to come to realize that he cannot destroy the Dark One). Androl was all him, of course. What RJ did was basically tell them where everyone ended up, and major milestones for the finale. However, Harriet decided Siuan would die, and Brandon decided to kill off another, as yet unnamed, major character. A lot of holes remained for Brandon to fill up, which is why they brought in an author and not a ghost writer. He had general guidelines on where to go, but he makes it very clear he had a lot of creative input into the story, and there was quite a bit of back and forth with RJ's wife and assistants on what would go in and what wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I've never understood what the Sanderson haters want; no books? Just unedited transcripts of RJ's notes????I remember at the AMoL signing, BS said that there were bigger WoT fans than him and there were better writers than him; but in that Venn diagram of "pretty good writers that are also WoT fans" overlap he felt he was a great choice. When put that way, I agree 100%.Don't think anyone disagrees with that. What would have been nice, perhaps, is if they didn't release tGS in 2009. If they'd waited till at least the storylines of tGS and ToM had been finished, I suspect we'd have gotten both a tighter ending and a better structure for the events of ToM. This is the chief complaint of mine that could actually have been remedied. As also is the various factual, timeline and number errors. And this isn't just Brandon's fault, of course. Team Jordan and Tor share quite a bit of blame here, especially with respect to releasing the story piecemeal. The rest, like his writing style and lack of nuance, nothing can be done about. Like he said, there wasn't a lot of people to choose from, and kudos to him for doing as much as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rice Bowl Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Fellow lurker stepping out of the shadows to say I'm in a similar spot. I agree with Gandhi that WoT is in the realm of things fantasy fans just assume you've already read. I was considering giving it a go this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I've never understood what the Sanderson haters want; no books? Not sure why it has to be so black and white. It's a truly sad state of affairs if we have reached a place where critique is branded as "hating". Can't one just be realistic about what we have in these last couple books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disputatious Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I have not checked, but I feel confident that some over at Dragonmount are still complaining about the fact that Faile survived to the end, and maybe also that Cadsuane not only survived, but became Amyrlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Fionwe you may want to mark spoilers up there specifically as it applies to Siuan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotcat Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Sanderson was always going to be in a tough spot regarding WoT fans. I think he did a good job, given the situation he was in (finishing the series for Jordan) and what he had to work with. Were the final books perfect? No, but I really don't know what the die hard fans would have preferred - the series stopping dead after Jordans death, have finished manuscripts floating about that didn't amount to complete novels, or someone coming in and giving the series a proper ending. It might not have been what fans who'd been in it for the long haul had wanted but in my opinion Sanderson did what he could and at least the door can be properly closed on the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Sanderson was always going to be in a tough spot regarding WoT fans. I think he did a good job, given the situation he was in (finishing the series for Jordan) and what he had to work with. Were the final books perfect? No, but I really don't know what the die hard fans would have preferred - the series stopping dead after Jordans death, have finished manuscripts floating about that didn't amount to complete novels, or someone coming in and giving the series a proper ending. It might not have been what fans who'd been in it for the long haul had wanted but in my opinion Sanderson did what he could and at least the door can be properly closed on the series. I largely agree with your point. In that vein, I fully accept that Sanderson's writing style would differ markedly from RJ's. That is understandable. But his lack of research into the intricacies that made RJ's world unique and so gripping - especially the One Power aspect of it - is what I have the biggest problem with. I couldn't care if he wrote Mat with a different voice than RJ did. That was inevitable. But the way in which Sanderson took away the "science" and "rules" of the One Power system, and made it subservient to the plot role of the character he was writing about, is criminal. Examples abound, but the One Power system ceased to exist after RJ's death. After that, it was some kind of magic that just duplicated the effects of the One Power in a superficial and inconsistent manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esa1996 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I'm looking for a new Book Series to start, a couple of friend's suggested the Wheel of Time Series by Robert Jordan. I know its its about 13 books long and someone else had to finish the last ones up as he passed away before they were done. Is it worth investing the time and dedication in getting into these novels? I need something to occupy my time or start reading from the beginning again either Harry Potter or Game of Thrones for about the 5 or 6th time already. I'm happy I found this place I've lurked for a long time and finally found the courage to start posting. Alia Both are absolutely brilliant. WOT is by far an easier read. It's complex enough that you'll ocasionally have POV chapters and wonder who the POV is as you can remember reading the name once or twice but can't remember anything about the character. Malazan takes complexity on a whole new level, however. Nearly 200 POVs (WOT has 147, 6 of whom can be considered "main POVs") of whom perhaps 30 or 40 can be considered main POVs and the rest are still important to the story. I read WOT before reading Malazan. As a whole I personally think that WOT is perhaps a tiny bit better, but it's up to taste. Also, a warning. Don't judge the series (especially Malazan) by the first book. I was contemplating on reading the plot from Wikipedia and giving up the series while halfway through book 1, and now it's my second most favorite series of all time. Also, while WOT is extremely long (14 700 pages) Malazan is even longer if you count the prequels etc. (rounds up to 17 000 pages at the moment with approximately 5 000 more pages in the works). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Eh... I got 3 books into WOT before I gave up. The first book I thought was a bit cliche, but introduced a fascinating world and lore with much potential. I LOVED the second book, though I have to say I was almost cheering for the villains. The third book felt like a step backwards. I got tired after that and moved on to other books and series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_ Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Eh... I got 3 books into WOT before I gave up. The first book I thought was a bit cliche, but introduced a fascinating world and lore with much potential. I LOVED the second book, though I have to say I was almost cheering for the villains. The third book felt like a step backwards. I got tired after that and moved on to other books and series. You didn't need to copy and paste your exact same post from the other WoT thread, seems kinda lazy and it makes you look weird. Anyways I'm just about to finish RJ last book in the series Knife of Dreams and enjoying considerably more than the previous few so far, it seems like things are starting to actually "happen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 You didn't need to copy and paste your exact same post from the other WoT thread, seems kinda lazy and it makes you look weird. Anyways I', just about to finish RJ last book in the series Knife of Dreams and enjoying considerably more than the previous few so far, it seems like things are starting to actually "happen".The irony here is rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The irony here is rich. how so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 You didn't need to copy and paste your exact same post from the other WoT thread, seems kinda lazy and it makes you look weird. Anyways I'm just about to finish RJ last book in the series Knife of Dreams and enjoying considerably more than the previous few so far, it seems like things are starting to actually "happen". Sorry. I'll go sit in the corner now. :frown5: Did the series actually get better in books 4-6? I've heard from some they do, but I'm not sure I want to and then have to slog through 7-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Sorry. I'll go sit in the corner now. :frown5: Did the series actually get better in books 4-6? I've heard from some they do, but I'm not sure I want to and then have to slog through 7-10. No don't go haha just you didn't need to copy and past the same message on both threads lol 4-6 is pretty much the same quality as 3 so if you're not enjoying 3 don't keep going, I'm up to 11 and it has slightly improved but I wouldn't slog it out if you haven't enjoyed the series so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I'd say that 7 is easily as good as 4-6. The only real nadirs are 8 and 10. 9 isn't great either, but it has a reasonable self-contained storyline and the ending is fairly important. Then 11-14 are all pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I'd say that 7 is easily as good as 4-6. The only real nadirs are 8 and 10. 9 isn't great either, but it has a reasonable self-contained storyline and the ending is fairly important. Then 11-14 are all pretty damn good. So, are 11-14 worth it? Could I skip 8 or 10 and still be able to follow the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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