Wheel of Time Series

[Rhom]

I'd add Sapkowski's (however it's spelled) The Witcher series.

I wasnt necessarily commenting on quality (though I personally love all three) but rather more making a point that those are the authors that get the most love around here.

[baxus]

@Rhom:

Sapkowski is definitely not in that group then, but he still has a group of fans, small as it may be.

From what I gather from native English speaker members, English translation is not that good so that might be the reason Sapkowski gets so little love around here.

[peterbound]

@Rhom:

Sapkowski is definitely not in that group then, but he still has a group of fans, small as it may be.

From what I gather from native English speaker members, English translation is not that good so that might be the reason Sapkowski gets so little love around here.

Seems to be the case.

I tried reading some of his stuff, and like the night watch books, It seemed like the idea was great, but you could tell that most of it was lost in translation.

Shame really.

[baxus]

Since I don't speak Polish, I couldn't comment on how good the original version is, but Serbian translation seems good enough to me.

To be more precise, I haven't caught any parts that are difficult to read, or any expressions that sound weird or anything like that.

It probably has a fair bit to do with both languages sharing the Slavic origin.

[andrew_]

Just finished the series, i need to rest my eyes and brain, will give my opinions in the morning *yawns*.

[Ser Eric]

I finished this yesterday. Loved it!

Yes, there are a couple of iffy books in the middle that make you want to pull your hair out but overall it's an immensely satisfying series to read. I can only conclude that most of the criticism that these books receive are overly harsh or maybe it was just people getting fed up of waiting for the books. And all things considered, Brandon Sanderson did a good job with the final 3 books. The situation he found himself in was hardly ideal but at least there was some sort of conclusion.

Even the things that kinda annoyed me in the beginning (The sexes bitching about each other) made sense eventually given the political landscape of the world. And I absolutely loved Mat! From the 3rd book (coinciding with him having his own pv) onwards he was the best character in the series for me. Elayne on the other hand was a car crash. The only character who got progressively worse and lurched from one blunder to another. Her brother wasn't much better but at least he died in the nice way.

Got a few questions for the some of the WoT pro's here.

1. Why did Mat lose the link to the horn? Was it because he got balefired at Caemlyn? But wouldn't that mean he never actually died?

2. Who killed Asmodean?

[SilentRoamer]

The Heroes of the Horn refer to the current "owner" of the horn the "Hornsounder" and they refer to anyone who previously blew the horn as a Hornblower - this is considered rare because in order to be a Hornblower you need to have died and been brought back. So you are correct in your summation. Remember that Balefire is dependant on Channeler strength, we see Rand use Balefire and he is one of the most powerful channelers around and it doesn't go that far back.

Who killed Asmodean is the big "whodunnit" of Wheel of Time. Personally I think the evidence points to Graendel but it is by no means made explicitly clear.

Being a big fan of WoT, a big fan of Matt and not a fan of Elayne I agree with a lot of what you say,

The major gripe I have is Brandons (mis)treatment of the one power but I am glad he gave a resolution to the series.

[Rhom]

I finished this yesterday. Loved it!

Yes, there are a couple of iffy books in the middle that make you want to pull your hair out but overall it's an immensely satisfying series to read. I can only conclude that most of the criticism that these books receive are overly harsh or maybe it was just people getting fed up of waiting for the books. And all things considered, Brandon Sanderson did a good job with the final 3 books. The situation he found himself in was hardly ideal but at least there was some sort of conclusion.

Even the things that kinda annoyed me in the beginning (The sexes bitching about each other) made sense eventually given the political landscape of the world. And I absolutely loved Mat! From the 3rd book (coinciding with him having his own pv) onwards he was the best character in the series for me. Elayne on the other hand was a car crash. The only character who got progressively worse and lurched from one blunder to another. Her brother wasn't much better but at least he died in the nice way.

Got a few questions for the some of the WoT pro's here.

1. Why did Mat lose the link to the horn? Was it because he got balefired at Caemlyn? But wouldn't that mean he never actually died?

2. Who killed Asmodean?

The Heroes of the Horn refer to the current "owner" of the horn the "Hornsounder" and they refer to anyone who previously blew the horn as a Hornblower - this is considered rare because in order to be a Hornblower you need to have died and been brought back. So you are correct in your summation. Remember that Balefire is dependant on Channeler strength, we see Rand use Balefire and he is one of the most powerful channelers around and it doesn't go that far back.

Who killed Asmodean is the big "whodunnit" of Wheel of Time. Personally I think the evidence points to Graendel but it is by no means made explicitly clear.

Being a big fan of WoT, a big fan of Matt and not a fan of Elayne I agree with a lot of what you say,

The major gripe I have is Brandons (mis)treatment of the one power but I am glad he gave a resolution to the series.

Not that it matters at this point... but I'm putting my answers in spoilers:

I thought Mat's tie was severed when he was hung at Ruidean. (eg "To die and live again." ) :dunno:

Pretty sure that they came right out and said Graendal did it in one of the Sanderson books. :dunno: Hard for me to recall, but it certainly never was clear.

[Darth Richard II]

Who killed asmodean is explicitly stated in one of the Sanderson index thingies at the end.

[andrew_]

Who killed asmodean is explicitly stated in one of the Sanderson index thingies at the end.

Graendal

[SilentRoamer]

Yeah that's right Rhom thats why he is a Hornblower.

I must have missed that in the index. Thanks DR. I always thought it was Graendel anyway.

[Darth Richard II]

I want to say it is in the second Sanderson book. I'd look but I'm not at home.

I think he gave an interview once too where he mentioned it but at the time there were 10 interviews with him a week, so I'm not sure where.

[Gertrude]

I think it was explicitly stated somewhere that Mat's ties were broken by the balefire. Not in the books, but somewhere else by Sanderson or Harriet or maybe Jordan himself? Dunno. I just remember reading it somewhere and not liking it. To me, Rhuidean makes more sense and is a bit more elegant. So that's what I'm going with.

As to the question of whether or not Mat died if balefire brought him back - yes, he did. It's linear time ... sort of. Rand remembers Mat dead. Mat also remembers the hell hounds (or whatever) drooling on him arm - these things happened, but then got 'unhappened'. MAGIC!

Also, I don't think it's fair to say all criticism is overly harsh or fueled by frustration. Yes, obviously some of it is, but there are flaws and I believe a lot of the criticism is valid. Everyone has different tastes and I am willing to overlook the flaws in some of my personal favorites while still acknowledging they are there. Nothing is perfect.

[andrew_]

The deaths of Shaidar Haran and Padan Fain bug me. Two big baddies of the series get barely a chapter between them in the final book. Haran literally getting a few sentences.

[Solmyr]

RE: Mat's tie to the horn - I'm with Gertrude on this one, it was the balefire in Caemlyn and not Ruidean. I can't give you a source here and now, but back in the day when I still frequented the WoT forums I'm pretty sure I read it discussed and proven beyond a shadow of doubt. And it's much more logical too - only death can break the tie, Mat didn't actually die in Ruidean, he was just very close. Had he died for real, Rand couldn't have resuscitated him.

RE: Asmodean - while still alive Jordan claimed that there were enough clues in the books for people to figure out who killed Asmodean. Most people did even before Sanderson's books, but the fandom in general regarded it more as a strong theory, rather than a fact. I think Sanderson put the explicit proof at the urging of Harriet. And by explicit I mean it's both in the glossary and in the text - Shaidar Haran accuses Greandal of killing 3 of the Chosen - by process of elimination the only other she could have killed is Asmodean.

RE: Shaidar Haran and Padan Fain endings - I was quite satisfied with both, despite having higher expectations of the damage Fain would cause.

Fain was always a wildcard in the series, he had his own agenda and was basically against everybody. He was also a skulker and it seems fitting that his grand masterplan would be ruined by a simple detail he overlook. It also gives Mat the chance to save Rand at a crucial moment, putting him on par with Perrin in the "saving Rand"-score during the Last Battle.

Shaidar Haran was always a manifestation of the Dark One. Yes, it was powerful, but it would've seemed silly for the Dark One to act through it when Rand was at the center of his power. The Dark One basically chose to fight Rand directly instead through a proxy, which probably was the smarter choice.

[Ser Eric]

But why would Graendal kill Asmodean? Am I missing something here? It doesn't seem like she had orders to kill him despite his betrayal.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say all criticism is overly harsh or fueled by frustration. Yes, obviously some of it is, but there are flaws and I believe a lot of the criticism is valid. Everyone has different tastes and I am willing to overlook the flaws in some of my personal favorites while still acknowledging they are there. Nothing is perfect.

The series most definitely has flaws (Any series spanning 14 books will have flaws) but having now read the series I feel a lot of the criticism is very much exaggerated and well over the top. It's not perfect (and I never said so) and could have done with better editing with some of the books but the overall product is more than satisfactory.

The deaths of Shaidar Haran and Padan Fain bug me. Two big baddies of the series get barely a chapter between them in the final book. Haran literally getting a few sentences.

Shaidar Haran didn't really bother me. He was just a front so never really had a character of his own. Fain's end felt a bit though. He was cool in a very creepy kind of way and I'm not too sure what I expected with his character but the end seemed a bit too sudden for my liking. Mat killing him was a nice addition however with the shared dagger background.

Also, I thought the romance felt a bit off in the books. Maybe I missed some obvious hints (entirely possible with 14 books) but Nynaeve-Lan, Thom-Moirraine, Rand-Elayne and Egwene-Gawyn seemed to come out of absolutely nowhere. My reaction mirrored Mat's when Thom and Moirriane married each other. Or was that just the pattern working it's magic to help Rand along? On the other hand Mat and Tuon was nicely done.

[Werthead]

Even the things that kinda annoyed me in the beginning (The sexes bitching about each other) made sense eventually given the political landscape of the world. And I absolutely loved Mat! From the 3rd book (coinciding with him having his own pv) onwards he was the best character in the series for me. Elayne on the other hand was a car crash. The only character who got progressively worse and lurched from one blunder to another. Her brother wasn't much better but at least he died in the nice way.

I'm hoping that Elayne's character development (or lack thereof) was deliberate. Elayne started as a spoiled noble who thought she was always right and ended still thinking that way, despite multiple occasions when Nynaeve and/or Egwene (or Mat, or Rand or the Aiel, or anyone else really) proved her wrong. Apart from learning to appreciate people's POV from a lower social class, she didn't really change. Hopefully that's because some people really do never change or grow, despite their experiences, and in fact rewrite those experiences to validate themselves. Either that or Jordan wasn't sure what to do with her after a while.

[Maester Drew]

@Ser Eric

On the romances, I agree. The first time I read EotW the whole Nyneave/Lan scene was a complete surprise. And yes their were subtle hints to it on later rereads namely when they first interact in Baerlon.

[Gertrude]

The romances were very poorly done, and even the ones I thought were best were just ok.. My favorite relationship was Rand and Min, but I liked her behavior less as the series went on.

[David Selig]

I'm hoping that Elayne's character development (or lack thereof) was deliberate. Elayne started as a spoiled noble who thought she was always right and ended still thinking that way, despite multiple occasions when Nynaeve and/or Egwene (or Mat, or Rand or the Aiel, or anyone else really) proved her wrong. Apart from learning to appreciate people's POV from a lower social class, she didn't really change. Hopefully that's because some people really do never change or grow, despite their experiences, and in fact rewrite those experiences to validate themselves. Either that or Jordan wasn't sure what to do with her after a while.

Actually of all the main characters in WoT Elayne is the one most likely to admit she has been wrong (except maybe Perrin). Egwene and Nynaeve especially are in completely different league than her in that respect. Moiraine too. Even Nynaeve admits that being able to admit she was wrong one of the best things about Elayne and IIRC this came at a moment when she was really irritated with her.

Also she always appreciated the PoV of people from a lower social class to a frankly really implausible degree for someone in her background. Who were her friends in the Tower when she was a novice - not one of the many nobles there, but two peasants from the back end of nowhere and one lower class woman who couldn't even channel. She listened to Thom's advice and took into account even when she thought he was a simple gleeman. Then there's Aviendha obviously...

And, since I am objecting to everything, she was hardly spoiled either. OK, at least as much as it's possible for a heir to a throne not to be spoiled and even a bit more than plausible. Someone with her background being turned into a low-ranked servant half the time in the Tower (having to scrub floors and wash dishes for hours every day) should've been a lot more annoyed than she was.

IMO she changed the least of the min characters because:

1) Her circumstances in life didn't change drastically unlike everyone else's of the Big 6 characters. Yes, she had a lot more adventures than expected, but that was temporary. She expected to be Queen and Aes Sedai one day and that's what happened. All the others had their lives completely turned around.

2) In many ways she was the most mature of the Big 6 at the start, and obviously by far the best educated and most worldly. Nynaeve was much older, but remarkably immature for her age in quite a few areas at the start of the series.