Will the real Aegon please stand up?

[Starspear]

Rhaegar thought he was the Prince, but he later dismissed (M. Aemon said so). I think when his daughter was born he started to think his children would be important, that's why he named the first two Rhaenys and Aegon. Considering Aegon was his first son, he assumed he would be "the one", with Rhaenys as his wife and the other kid, either his second at command or his wife.

Rhaegar is dead, though. Also Rhaenys. He misunderstood the prophecy but he indirectly caused two more heads, Jon and Dany. Maybe Aegon is another one or many, dunno, Stannis.

Yes, Rhaegar dead. Rhaenys too. I do think it will be a Targ. Despite all these potential Targs floating around, the choices are still meager.

How much Rhaegar knew and shared (with Aemon) for instance, is not fully possible to know.

But the prophecy is repeated too many times to just fizzle. It will manifest in some fashion.

[Leonardo]

I think this passage is more than it appears:

Rhaegar: “There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her [Daenerys] or the woman in the bed she could not say.

There is no way to know just exactly what Rhaegar knew, because GRRM is still keeping that card hidden.

For this thread, I'm currently seeing it as:

- 1st Head Unknown. Maybe Rhaegar thought he was the first.

- 2nd Head: Aegon "Jon Snow" Targaryen

- 3rd Head: Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen.

F/Aegon is a Blackfyre scion/Illyrio's son/maybe the first born Aegon and hence the 1st head... but I don't think so. The whole thing is fishy and GRRM's early draft with the Blackfyre passages and all... but I digress.

Before I fully adhere to my own theory... the 1st head and Elia's son, have to at least make some sense.

I see more nebulous connections, which I'll withhold for the moment till then make more sense.

?

What early draft?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I really like that you noticed that Elia was supposed to be near death after the birth and in the vision the woman with Rhaegar was coherent and fine.

I never noticed that myself.

Both of Rhaegar's women were left weak after birth... I think there is something wrong with his penis. just saying...

[Faydra]

I think Rhaegar mistook his first son for The Prince that Was Promised and realised this only much later. Anyway, I like the title.

[King Aegon The Conqueror]

This actually seems like a pretty good swerve. I for one will be shocked if GRRM goes this way although I doubt it.

Still a really good theory!

[The Bittersteel]

This is a cool theory. Might sound obvious but I always assumed that if Jon was the son of Lyanna he'd have been born with a different name. The 'Jon' clearly comes from Jon Arryn and while the Ned connection is obvious I don't see any reason why Rhaegar/Lyanna would have called him that.

[Starspear]

This is a cool theory. Might sound obvious but I always assumed that if Jon was the son of Lyanna he'd have been born with a different name. The 'Jon' clearly comes from Jon Arryn and while the Ned connection is obvious I don't see any reason why Rhaegar/Lyanna would have called him that.

That's part of how it hit me (see explanation in post #20).

[Starspear]

The main issues with the puzzle presented are the following:

- What other potential outcomes for Elia's son? We know two stories: Gregor Clegane; whisked away by Varys to Essos. Was he replaced at birth? Was he born stillborn? Did Ashara play a role here?

- Rhaegar naming his two first sons Aegon.

Questions:

- Did Rhaegar have any prophetic gifts?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Uh so once again

Just casting out Rhaenys and Viserys for no reason lol?

They also had no idea Dany even would be born, as she was conceived the night before Aerys wife leaves KL for dragonstone.

Who said no reason? Just because we don't know a reason doesn't mean there isn't one. ;)

If he's talking to Elia in the vision there is no guarantee another child will be born to Rhaegar either. And if he's talking to Lyanna then there isn't another child born from his own line. It's a crap shoot any way you look at it. Left intentionally vague by the author, possibly for the purpose of keeping readers guessing, which is what this thread is about.

[The Fresh PtwP]

Lyanna died of a fever, it certainly wasn't childbirth. Ned's POV confirms that much

Otherwise not bad

I definitely think there is room for Lyanna to have been the one in the bed and not Elia as what you say makes a deal of sense

HOWEVER

That means Rhaegar named two of his sons Aegon >.>

Please explain.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Lyanna died in a bed of blood, meaning at or near the time of childbirth. Also at the time of Jon's birth Rhaegar was not at KL, most likely he was already dead and so was Elia. How could they have Jon if they were dead? Also GRRM told that Elia's Aegon had Valyrian features and he was almost a year older than Jon, I think that Cat would had noticed the difference between a 1yo and a newborn.

[Starspear]

Lyanna died in a bed of blood, meaning at or near the time of childbirth. Also at the time of Jon's birth Rhaegar was not at KL, most likely he was already dead and so was Elia. How could they have Jon if they were dead? Also GRRM told that Elia's Aegon had Valyrian features and he was almost a year older than Jon, I think that Cat would had noticed the difference between a 1yo and a newborn.

Re: Lyanna died in a bed of blood: comes from Ned's dream/memories. It's ambiguous. Assumption is childbirth, but it's an assumption... and for this thread, I invite the idea that she did NOT die in childbirth - see House of Undying vision post #1.

Re: Red Comet. This was seen at the time of Aegon's (AeJon) conception, not birth. Conception is a little less than a year from actual birth.

Re: Cat noticing difference. I am not saying that Elia's child is AeJon. I'm saying that Jon's name given by his parents (R+L) is Aegon. He is the Aegon in the vision. He would have been a newborn in Starfall (where Wylla was a crucial piece of the puzzle).

[Starspear]

Who said no reason? Just because we don't know a reason doesn't mean there isn't one. ;)

If he's talking to Elia in the vision there is no guarantee another child will be born to Rhaegar either. And if he's talking to Lyanna then there isn't another child born from his own line. It's a crap shoot any way you look at it. Left intentionally vague by the author, possibly for the purpose of keeping readers guessing, which is what this thread is about.

If he's talking to Elia in the vision: why is Aegon's song of Ice and Fire... makes no sense at all. Also, why is Elia nursing and conversational. Elia almost died. His first childbirth had her bedridden for 6 months.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Lyanna died of a fever, it certainly wasn't childbirth. Ned's POV confirms that much

Uh, puerperal fever is childbirth-related fever.

Key phrase: His is the song of ice and fire.

Notes: The woman in the bed is Lyanna. She is strong as she nurses the child, not weak (Elia is described as sickly and had almost died during the birth). There is romance to the mood. A son of Dragons and Dorne is not Ice and Fire. A son of the North and Dragons, is a son of Ice and Fire. The scene takes place at the Tower of Joy.

In addition to GRRM, I'm pretty sure, confirming via Q&As/whatever that it's Aegon and Elia, this vision can't have taken place at the Tower. Rhaegar was dead by the time Jon was born.

As for why he said that it's Aegon's song, it's possible he ended up changing his mind (which he had already done, shifting from himself to Aegon), or just got it wrong.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Re: Lyanna died in a bed of blood: comes from Ned's dream/memories. It's ambiguous. Assumption is childbirth, but it's an assumption... and for this thread, I invite the idea that she did NOT die in childbirth - see House of Undying vision post #1.

Ned, our only source, said that bed of blood. In books the bed of blood is associated with childbirth.

Re: Red Comet. This was seen at the time of Aegon's (AeJon) conception, not birth. Conception is a little less than a year from actual birth.

Agree.

Re: Cat noticing difference. I am not saying that Elia's child is AeJon. I'm saying that Jon's name given by his parents (R+L) is Aegon. He is the Aegon in the vision. He would have been a newborn in Starfall (where Wylla was a crucial piece of the puzzle).

Agree. iirc the woman was been said that it was Elia at a SSM. Rhaegar was dead at the time of Jon's birth. Also who was the child that Elia was holding?

[Starspear]

Uh, puerperal fever is childbirth-related fever.

In addition to GRRM, I'm pretty sure, confirming via Q&As/whatever that it's Aegon and Elia, this vision can't have taken place at the Tower. Rhaegar was dead by the time Jon was born.

Where is the source for this?

We don't know what happened at the Tower.

Q/A of GRRM answer - if you have the source, that would immediately put this theory to rest. If not, then not.

If it is Elia - it does not explain Ice and Fire. This just makes Rhaegar look insipid and shallow. It also bears explaining how such a weak woman near death is so coherent.

[Starspear]

Ned, our only source, said that bed of blood. In books the bed of blood is associated with childbirth.

Agree.

Agree. iirc the woman was been said that it was Elia at a SSM. Rhaegar was dead at the time of Jon's birth. Also who was the child that Elia was holding?

Yes, but you're proving my point. It's an assumption, not a fact. But it's the only thing we got.

Re: the woman was been said that it was Elia at a SSM - waiting on source.

[Ser Lepus]

Aegon Targaryen is supposed to be at least two years older than Jon Snow, and Ned Stark brought Jon to Winterfell the same year he was born...there is no way people would believe a kid who was more than two years old was the same age as Robb.

[Mladen]

Where is the source for this?

We don't know what happened at the Tower.

Q/A of GRRM answer - if you have the source, that would immediately put this theory to rest. If not, then not.

If it is Elia - it does not explain Ice and Fire. This just makes Rhaegar look insipid and shallow. It also bears explaining how such a weak woman near death is so coherent.

Rhaegar died at Trident, Jon was born around Sack of KL. Sack occured after Trident.

It was Elia, GRRM confirmed it numerous times.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Where is the source for this?

It's actually pretty damn simple arithmetic. Dany was born nine months after her mother left for Dragonstone. Aerys raped Rhaella the night he burned Chelsted, who was his second-to-last Hand. The last Hand only lasted for two weeks before the city was sacked. So, Dany was born about nine months after the Sack. GRRM has said that Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany. Meaning that he was born at about the time of the Sack, up to a month after. The Trident occurred shortly before the Sack, yes, but still before it. If Jon's birth lines up with the Sack up to a month after, then yes, Rhaegar was already dead when he was born.

If it is Elia - it does not explain Ice and Fire.

It's possible that Rhaegar changed his mind, got it wrong, or failed to grasp what role "ice and fire" might actually play in the whole thing. It might not have occurred to him at first that "ice and fire" might be actual components in his kid's genetic makeup.