Bastard of the Dreadfort Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Oh oh funny parallel--Ramsay also seems to use twin daggers in the preview for next week. Watching Karl's scenes this season makes me ponder what a potentially better Ramsay he might have been... He truly made my skin crawl...While Iwan Rheon is a fine actor... His interpretation just doesn't invoke the same sense of pure malice and evil that Burn Gorman was able to create in the short time he has been on the show.Here's hoping that Rheon becomes less of a 'Joker' (for lack of a better comparison) and more of a Karl. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Woodpecker of West Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Guy who played Locke would be great Vargo. Pity they used him like this.Burn Gorman should play Ramsay Snow rather than this happy hobbit Rheon.He even have a little bit of this evil, small eyed pig appearence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of the Dreadfort Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Burn Gorman should play Ramsay Snow rather than this happy hobbit Rheon.He even have a little bit of this evil, small eyed pig appearence. 'Happy hobbit' made me lol. Glad I'm not the only one who was thinking of Ramsay while watching Karl =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avernite Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I wonder how Jon didn't manage to use his having a long sword at all, but apart from that, these two characters were indeed awesome, even if I expected Locke to kill Bran right out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I got that that was the point but it felt really ridiculous to me. I thought that Oberyn meant when he was trying to draw his weapon or something? I find it hard to believe that daggers are actually superior in a sword-fight but then again what do I know about sword-fighting.It's not ridiculous at all. Why do you think Karl stayed inside? Because he had an advantage there. If they had been outside, the longsword would have been an advantage. I find it ironic that people think this fight was "unrealistic" when it would have been unrealistic if Jon had dominated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Locke and Karl, two great characters gone too soon. I wish Locke at least had survived. It was a good development for Bran and Hodor, though. Bran made the innocent Hodor kill a man with his own hands and Hodor looks very disturbed after realising what he did.agreed. Shame to see an awesome actor and character go but was very powerful and important in showing the moral ambiguity of brans actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Loved karl as well - that fight scene was fucking awesome and he had the best evil one liners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presenteira Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It's not ridiculous at all. Why do you think Karl stayed inside? Because he had an advantage there. If they had been outside, the longsword would have been an advantage. I find it ironic that people think this fight was "unrealistic" when it would have been unrealistic if Jon had dominated him. Well, in my opinion there was space enough to wield the longsword inside. I practice sport fencing and HEMA and I can assure you, reach is very important. I find it very difficult to believe you can efectively opose a longsword with two daggers. All Jon had to do was thrusting instead of slashing. It looked very unrealistic to me, almost ridiculous, and out of character because any good fencer who's been trained since childhood (like Jon is suposed to be) would have finished Karl without too much effort. Dirty fighting or not, the disadvantage was on Karl's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Well, in my opinion there was space enough to wield the longsword inside. I practice sport fencing and HEMA and I can assure you, reach is very important. I find it very difficult to believe you can efectively opose a longsword with two daggers. All Jon had to do was thrusting instead of slashing. It looked very unrealistic to me, almost ridiculous, and out of character because any good fencer who's been trained since childhood (like Jon is suposed to be) would have finished Karl without too much effort. Dirty fighting or not, the disadvantage was on Karl's side.I would assume that the people choreographing the fight are experts, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Both great villains, both great deaths. Especially Locke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presenteira Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I would assume that the people choreographing the fight are experts, as well. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but the fight secuences in general look poor to me, like I don't buy Jaime or Jon or Brienne as really good fencers (the way Brienne grabs Oathkeeper in the scene with Jaime is irking, like she's grabbing a club more than a sword). I assume the choreographers are experts, but perhaps more in stage fencing than actual fighting, or perhaps they didn't have enough time to train the actors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I have one question, Karl defeated Jon Snow because he fought dirty, so let us assume Karl due with Bronn, who would win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I have one question, Karl defeated Jon Snow because he fought dirty, so let us assume Karl due with Bronn, who would win?Bronn, to be honest. Though I did love the dual-wielding, bronn may make a lot of japes, but hes a)very skilled and competent and b) not at all afraid of fighting just as dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBucket Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'm not claiming to be an expert, but the fight secuences in general look poor to me, like I don't buy Jaime or Jon or Brienne as really good fencers (the way Brienne grabs Oathkeeper in the scene with Jaime is irking, like she's grabbing a club more than a sword). I assume the choreographers are experts, but perhaps more in stage fencing than actual fighting, or perhaps they didn't have enough time to train the actors... Jaime, Jon and Brienne are not supposed to be fencers, they're War of the Roses era warriors using lonsgwords. Sport fencing is a renaissance/modern mock combat sport, it is not combat. With all due respect I think you have the last part of your comment the wrong way round. The choreographers will be experts in medieval era combat (actual fighting). Good essay on the subject if you're interested - http://www.thearma.org/essays/Longsword_Differs_From_Modern_Fencing.html#.U2jir_ldX38 - "modern fencing includes no equivalent system of fighting to that of the longsword" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of the Dreadfort Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Bronn, to be honest. Though I did love the dual-wielding, bronn may make a lot of japes, but hes a)very skilled and competent and B) not at all afraid of fighting just as dirty. I'm still waiting for the Bronn with a dagger vs. Meryn Trant with armour and a big f*cking sword fight (Season 3 Episode 1 for those who don't remember =P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleonasm Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Guy who played Locke would be great Vargo. Pity they used him like this.Burn Gorman should play Ramsay Snow rather than this happy hobbit Rheon.He even have a little bit of this evil, small eyed pig appearence. Amen to this. Burn Gorman would have been all kinds of awesome as Ramsey. Far more chilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 They both did great jobs, but I was disappointed with Locke's death. He should have stuck around, maybe stabbing Jon along with Bowen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Jaime, Jon and Brienne are not supposed to be fencers, they're War of the Roses era warriors using lonsgwords. Sport fencing is a renaissance/modern mock combat sport, it is not combat. With all due respect I think you have the last part of your comment the wrong way round. The choreographers will be experts in medieval era combat (actual fighting). Good essay on the subject if you're interested - http://www.thearma.org/essays/Longsword_Differs_From_Modern_Fencing.html#.U2jir_ldX38 - "modern fencing includes no equivalent system of fighting to that of the longsword" I'm also reminded of a quote from the books, when Sam asked Jon why he practiced swordplay so much, even though he was Lord Commander: “Valyrian steel,” he said, “spell-forged and razor-sharp, nigh on indestructible. A swordsman should be as good as his sword, Sam. Longclaw is Valyrian steel, but I’m not. The Halfhand could have killed me as easy as you swat a bug." Even in the books, Jon knows that he's not a great swordsman. It makes sense that he would still have struggles against quicker, more experienced opponents in the show, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hielo y Fuego Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 They both did great jobs, but I was disappointed with Locke's death. He should have stuck around, maybe stabbing Jon along with Bowen. Except that Roose sent Locke to the Wall specifically to find the Stark boys. Once he found Bran, there was no point in Locke sticking around any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Yup Locke was a dead man walking once he was sent to get Bran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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