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rocksniffer

(BEWARE SPOILERS) "...A Thousand Lying Whores..."

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REwatching this Jamie Tywin scene. I am starting to think Tywin expected Jamie to come to him with something like this. With how quickly he agrees, and Jamie gives this look like "shit, he is five steps ahead"


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I'm predicting that when Tyrion confronts Shae she's going to say something to the effect of, "I'd rather see you both dead, then see you happy together." And then he'll kill her.


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Ditto about Shae, Ditto underlined. She may have been coerced by T and C, but, damn, she really carried it to the extreme. Seemed to me she put her own cruel little twists on it to humiliate Tyrion, with relish. I think D and D are counting on that last scene between Tyrion and Shae where he did tell her she was a whore, only to get her to leave for her own good, to somewhat 'justify' her testimony for the unsullied.

I agree with you and with others here. She wasn't some innocent lover being forced. She enjoyed that. I really don't care what the show tries to tell us, I will never believe Shae loved Tyrion. I hope he catches her sleeping with Tywin and kills her. They tried to make her likeable on the show but even show-only types don't like her so it was a lot of wasted time if you ask me. One of the few mistakes they've made with changing characters personalities.

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REwatching this Jamie Tywin scene. I am starting to think Tywin expected Jamie to come to him with something like this. With how quickly he agrees, and Jamie gives this look like "shit, he is five steps ahead"

I think he just jumped at his good fortune that Jaime would come and offer him the thing he wants more for something he already planned to do. I do believe that book Tywin was going to send Tyrion to the Wall since his Lannister pride doesn't like to see his own die if he can help it.

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Watching it again. She seems scared and off when she is telling the parts that are clear lies. About the plot. When she switches into describing their relationship she starts to get more into it and it seems more vindictive and its more lover scorned.



On another note, the music is EXCELLENT during the trial. Especially during the confession. This dark reprise of Rains of Castamere. Reallly well done. Everyone about the trial was well crafted. Acting, music, editing, cinematography. Hats off.



God that death stare between father and son is AMAZING. Their final confrontation is going to be epic.


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I don't see why everyone is so excited about this Shae thing


They ruined everything when they wrote her as in love with Tyrion and their whole relationship.


Now it just seems she's pissed off at him and taking revenge ("I'm a whore, remember?"). If he ends up killing her it will just end the whole thing as a tragic love a la Romeo and Juliet because of a massive misunderstanding between them rather than the complete betrayal from her and how she played him like it was in the books.


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REwatching this Jamie Tywin scene. I am starting to think Tywin expected Jamie to come to him with something like this. With how quickly he agrees, and Jamie gives this look like "shit, he is five steps ahead"

Yup. Bryan Cogman confirmed as much in the interview up at ew.com about 4x06.

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In the books, it's never been made explicit whether she turned on Tyrion for gain, out of bitterness, or through coercion. Possibly, a combination of all three.

And I think they did an excellent job of leaving show viewers wondering which of the three (or all three) are responsible for Shae's testimony.

I agree with others on re-watch - - Shae starts out nervous and not very believable during the lies about Tyrion plotting to kill Joffrey with Sansa, but by the time her testimony takes on a more personal note, all nervousness drops and she's pure spite and revenge so there's a tinge of both coercion (for the lies) and scorned lover paypack both. For as many people who disliked Shae's actor ability, she really nailed this scene perfectly.

Even though they portrayed show Shae as much more sympathetic to Sansa and 'in-love' with Tyrion than in the books, the end result at the trial is still just as powerful in my opinion. Nothing could take away from that shocker and non book viewers had to have been appropriately shocked by her betrayal which makes the next one even more dramatic.

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I think that scene was peter dinklage's best performance to date.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFROZkA-EWg

It comes close, if not his best one. What was most amazing was watching the self-control that Tyrion has probably cultivated most of his life break and all his built-up bitterness over years of mockery from the world and scorn from his father because of a condition Tyrion could not help and would do anything to change, come raging out of him like a lion's roar.

And the Tyrion eye challenge to Tywin at the end - naked hate and a hint of pain from Tyrion, and fury and some surprise from Tywin.

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I thought Shae's scene in the trial made the whole decision to make her more of a sympathetic love-interest on the show seem an even bigger mistake then ever.

In the books she turns on Tyrion for some petty, material gain. That's the sort of thing that could make a person in Tyrion's position just sick with humanity in general.

In the show, she's more of an angry, rejected lover, taking revenge on the man who turned her out. Far less compelling-- not to mention less believable.

I don't see why everyone is so excited about this Shae thing

They ruined everything when they wrote her as in love with Tyrion and their whole relationship.

Now it just seems she's pissed off at him and taking revenge ("I'm a whore, remember?"). If he ends up killing her it will just end the whole thing as a tragic love a la Romeo and Juliet because of a massive misunderstanding between them rather than the complete betrayal from her and how she played him like it was in the books.

I think what they did with the character here was really good work. The problems arise wholey because of how they changed the character previously, especially during S3. GRRMs stated issues on the matter have been born out. They will get to the same point, but it will not be as satisfactory because of their creative writing.

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I don't see why everyone is so excited about this Shae thing

They ruined everything when they wrote her as in love with Tyrion and their whole relationship.

Now it just seems she's pissed off at him and taking revenge ("I'm a whore, remember?"). If he ends up killing her it will just end the whole thing as a tragic love a la Romeo and Juliet because of a massive misunderstanding between them rather than the complete betrayal from her and how she played him like it was in the books.

To me book Shae wasn't a betrayal because all she was ever loyal to was the money. Her purpose is to open Tyrion's eyes and remind him that even he can be blinded, despite his intelligence. He knew she was a whore but craved love so desperately. It shows us a lot about who he is as a character and I think it's an important step for him. Yes, he spends time afterward being bitter and feeling sorry for himself but that is a lot more about his current station in life and the revelation about his first (and true) love. He's bitter at the world. I think show Tyrion is going to get lost down the bottom of a bottle for a long time, and it will primarily be about Shae. Maybe he will kill her and get emo about it for two seasons. Much less interesting to me,

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It comes close, if not his best one. What was most amazing was watching the self-control that Tyrion has probably cultivated most of his life break and all his built-up bitterness over years of mockery from the world and scorn from his father because of a condition Tyrion could not help and would do anything to change, come raging out of him like a lion's roar.

And the Tyrion eye challenge to Tywin at the end - naked hate and a hint of pain from Tyrion, and fury and some surprise from Tywin.

God that eye challenge was great. That little smirk he gives at then end of it. Even better that it seems Tywin is doubly mad if his plan was never to actually execute Tyrion. Now he knows he will die, and that Jamie may volunteer and he could lose him which is even worse. I honestly can't get enough of this scene. Dinklage is just SO good. Dance doesn't have to do much heavy lifting but he is always good.

PW was excellent, but this episode blows everything out of the water.

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Scene was great of course and better than I expected, but was I the only one missing the "Giant of Lanniser"? I was waiting for it and a bit disappointed when it was just replaced by "Lion of Lannister". That sentence and all the laughs were perfect to get Tyrion to lose his temper, with all the years of dwarf-mocking coming to the surface. Well, guess this was good too.


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Book and show are vastly different at this point.

TV Tywin is not Book Tywin.

Still open to interpretation as to whether Book Tywin meant it; But I'll go with yes if only 'cause it makes things more tragic. Because you know, there's not enough tragedy in the books. For me.

:P

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Another thing that bugs me about Shae selling out Sansa at length is that not only did the show make a big deal out of Shae's love for Sansa, but while she was clearly souring on Tyrion and feeling increasingly resentful towards him, she not once showed anything but affection for Sansa after the marriage and never seemed to direct her anger about the marriage towards her. She was clearly concerned in 4x01 that Sansa was not eating. So it's a big mystery that the show just had Shae sell out Sansa with no other apparent motive--again, absent coercion--than jealousy, since she'd never taken out her jealousy on Sansa before.

I see Shae's motivations as one of spite after Tyrion broke her heart (to save her life, but she didn't understand that).

That's a big difference from the books of course, but it was really telegraphed in the show by the emotional direction the whole Tyrion-Shae relationship had been given to begin with.

Of course there is still room for some ambiguity there too - a few things that might add up to a rather big surprise.

In any case, nice trial for the most part: Tyrion ... gets no witnesses, almost no questions. Ah, medieval justice.

The trade-of Jaime made is something that made sense - since Kevan Lannister is not in this and Jaime was back so damn early. Also, Jaime sort of knew Shae was coming next on the witness list, didn't he? "No outbursts", LOL, not happening.

Tyrion's tirade in the court ... I think they mostly got it right. "Dear King's Landing... Fuck you all. I hope someone invents nukes just so one can be dropped on this place. Signed, Tyrion The Imp The Twisted Monkey Demon."

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Tyrion's tirade in the court ... I think they mostly got it right. "Dear King's Landing... Fuck you all. I hope someone invents nukes just so one can be dropped on this place. Signed, Tyrion The Imp The Twisted Monkey Demon."


If anything, his rant was even more venomous than it was in the books.


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I love they kept in Pycelle's classic line.



Used to strike down the most noble child the gods ever put on this good earth.


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Scene was great of course and better than I expected, but was I the only one missing the "Giant of Lanniser"? I was waiting for it and a bit disappointed when it was just replaced by "Lion of Lannister". That sentence and all the laughs were perfect to get Tyrion to lose his temper, with all the years of dwarf-mocking coming to the surface. Well, guess this was good too.

Her not uttering that line makes the Unsullied more unsure about her motivations and her feelings for Tyrion. She never called him "Giant" on the show so we know that is a lie.

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Her not uttering that line makes the Unsullied more unsure about her motivations and her feelings for Tyrion. She never called him "Giant" on the show so we know that is a lie.

She never called him "giant" on the show but did call him "my lion," and Bryan Cogman said in an interview about this episode that they tried to make all the things used to condemn Tyrion during the witnesses' testimony mostly true.

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If anything, his rant was even more venomous than it was in the books.

So true, Dinklage went seriously dark in that scene. I absolutely loved it. Makes me that much more excited for his visit to the tower of the hand in 4x10 :drool:

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