am I the only one fearing that this series will end in a Targaryen revival?

[falcotron]

Ever read the Discworld novels? Captain Carrot seems to think that the best thing a King can do is get on with a good days work.

He might feel differently if the only alternative were to leave things in the hand of the Dragon King (as in Guards! Guards!)...

[falcotron]

Margaery's favorite hobby is marrying kings and she will do so until she dies of old age. Still she would only have been queen for like 24h in total.

If she keeps it up, I think we can expect that there will be a new entry on the list of traditional tests of true kingship:

• Wins the acclaim of the crowds of King's Landing.

Crowned by the High Septon with a Targaryen crown.

Sits the Iron Throne without being cut.

Marries Margaery Tyrell.

This will cause serious problems for the legitimacy of the first King after her death... unless he just digs up her corpse to marry it. (After all, it's not like anyone will be expected to consummate the traditional Margy-marriage.)

[Mithras]

This is nonsense. All three of these houses are a combination of multiple historical influences and original ideas, and the one with the closest connection to any historical dynasty is clearly the Targaryens, based on the Normans.

William/Aegon the Conqueror, a foreigner from Normandy/Dragonstone, the westernmost territory of the old fallen Roman/Valyrian Empire, invades England/Westeros, bringing a new kind of castle-based/dragon-based warfare that's unstoppable. He declares himself King of the Britons/First Men and Anglo-Saxons/Andals. He sets up some of his own people as nobles, but leaves many of the old lords in place, as well as leaving the traditional Edwardian/Andal laws mostly unchanged. His descendants have a number of dynastic struggles that lead to civil wars like the Anarchy/DotD, until eventually they're overthrown by a cadet branch, the Plantagenets/Baratheons.

The Starks/Yorks and Lannisters/Lancasters were two of the major players in the War of the Five Kings/Roses. And that's about it for similarities. The Yorks and Lancasters were two cadet branches of the Plantagenets fighting over which one had a better claim to the throne of England. None of the major characters' names or personalities are similar to anyone in ASoIaF. None of the major events of the wars are similar.

Of course all of these families have many other influences, and a lot that GRRM created on his own. William and his descendants obviously didn't ride dragons, any more than Edmund of Langley and his descendants warged direwolves.

Also, if the Starks and Lannisters are just the War of the Roses, then obviously the books will end the same way their war did. Which would be Tyrion using Dany's sellswords to conquer Westeros for himself, marry Sansa Stark to reunite the realm, and found a new dynasty, after which everyone will live happily ever after, until their son decides to take over the Faith so he can annul his marriage to marry Margaery Tyrell instead, only to execute her and marry another 4 wives in succession, but the show will have to move from HBO to Showtime for that.

Haha, when you tell it like that, it sounds strangely convincing.

By the way, Tyrion is surely planning to conquer Casterly Rock for himself by using first fAegon's and now Dany's sellswords/armies. This is not an interpretation, he told this much to Illyrio.

But I don't think he will succeed.

[MoIaF]

I predict a Targaryen restoration at the end of the series. I am not totally convinced about the dragons however, since GRRM might decide to kill all the magic in his world (dragons, WW, etc.). That would be pretty bittersweet.

It's either going to be Jon and Daenerys together or Dany alone ruling untill her son/daughter of Jon is ready to succeed her.

Of course it won't be a spiritual Targaryen restoration. That age is long gone. Whether it's Dany alone or Jon and Dany (which I believe the most likely) together, their rule will be vastly different from that of most prior Targaryens. It will probably be more akin to the court of Daeron the Good (minus BF trouble) and Jaeherys the Concilliator. Lot's of room for song and dance and influx of different people from all over the Seven Kingdoms and even beyond.

You know I'm a big fan of the Targaryens and of Jon & Dany but I'm leery that there will be a restoration of the Targaryen royal dynasty.

I feel with everything that we've seen and that has happened, if the Targaryens regain the Iron Throne it would come really close to justifying the idea of "divine right". Both the Starks and the Targaryens are the most magical families in the series to have them both ruling would be like saying that only certain families (blood) are fit to rule. It seems to me.

Now, I'm not saying it can't happen but I think if it does it would be within the framework of substantial changes to the societal structure, which I think is what you were getting at when you said it wouldn't be like the previous Targaryen reign.

Both Dany and Jon have challenged the status quo (freeing the slaves & allowing the Wilding thru the Wall) and in that respect I can see them being forces for change. What I'm unsure of if it'll be as leaders or as rulers.

[falcotron]

Haha, when you tell it like that, it sounds strangely convincing.

By the way, Tyrion is surely planning to conquer Casterly Rock for himself by using first fAegon's and now Dany's sellswords/armies. This is not an interpretation, he told this much to Illyrio.

But I don't think he will succeed.

When I first saw Tyrion hiring the Second Sons, I started wondering whether GRRM had done this intentionally as a joke.

After all, his initial idea for the series had been "fantasy War of the Roses", but in the first four books there was basically no War of the Roses except the two family names. So, wouldn't it be hilarious to hint that he's going to tie it all up with Henry Tudor anyway?

Tyrion/Henry flees Westeros/England for Pentos/Brittany. There he meets with Illyrio/Francis II, who puts him in contact with a force led by exiles from a Targaryen/Plantagenet cadet branch. First he heads east, where he gets the support of the Queen of Meereen/King of France and hires the Second Sons/various mercenary companies. He then heads back home. He lands at the far western edge of his home territory, the Westerlands/Wales and quickly takes control.

So far, so good. But after that is where things get silly: On the way home, Tyrion/Henry gains the support of a discontented faction led by the Florents/Woodvilles, who start swaying others to his side. As soon as he has control of the Westerlands/Wales, he calls his banners and allies and races for the Crownlands/England. Mace/Richard comes to meet him with a much larger army, but then key allies like the Hightowers/Northumberland and the Stanleys either desert or switch sides, so Mace/Richard's army is crushed and he is killed in battle. Triumphant, Tyrion/Henry speeds to KL/London, where he has himself crowned by the High Septon/Archbishop. He declares Cersei and Mace/Richard and some of their key supporters traitors, executes them, and seizes their land. But he also pardons Tommen/John Lincoln, and gives Myrcella/Margaret Plantagenet a new noble title with a seat out in Wiltshire/Dorne, and immediately remarries/marries Sansa Stark/Elizabeth York. He proclaims a number of land and title reforms, and calls all the nobles to swear fealty to him, and pardons all of them for any actions they may have taken during the recent civil wars. Only after this does he call the small council/Parliament to session, presenting them a fait accompli.

I obviously don't expect any of the last paragraph to happen in a million years. But I'm only about 80% sure that the connections in the previous paragraph weren't meant as an intentional little historical in-joke: "Look at how I could turn this into the Henry Tudor story. Like this, and this, and... ok, just kidding, but thanks for noticing"

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Yeah, because the First Men weren't brutal in their subjugation of the Children and Giants at all...They converted eventually yes, but only after cutting down hundreds and hundreds of Weirwood trees. The Andals were even worse. Imo the Targaryen conquest was almost peaceful by comparison. They didn't destroy septs or cut down weirwoods, did not enforce their views on incest. Even if they only adipted the religion superficially, its better than destroying it and inposing their own. I still fail to see how they are worse than Andals or First Men (I leave out the Rhonyar because I don't remember much on them)

A field of fire and threat of another but at least they didn't cut down the trees and knock over the churches? Seriously?

Did the First Men even know what the trees were for? The Andals feared them.

[HexMachina]

A field of fire and threat of another but at least they didn't cut down the trees and knock over the churches? Seriously?

Did the First Men even know what the trees were for? The Andals feared them.

The field of fire was one battle. My point with cutting down the trees was that the First Men were clearly less tolerant than the Targaryens of local cuatoms when they invaded. The First Men were also responsible for killing a huge number of the Children. Its illogical to vilift the Targaryens but not the Andals and First Men when they were jest the same, without the tolerance for existing customs

[Vastro]

You're not the only one. If you go back to the first book the Targaryens had nothing only Daenerys and Viserys, on the other side we have the whole westeros against them except Dorne. But it quickly changes Jon (the Usurpers dog according to Dany) dies followed by Robert (Usurper) followed by Ned (UD) followed by Renly (Usurpers brother) followed by Tywin (UD) followed by Robb (Ned's son) followed by Joffry (Usurper's heir apparently) and all of their houses are in deep shit that they're going to have a hard time with Aegon and Dany. It's really weird that all of these people died for many different reasons but you can't deny that it's going to make things easier for Dany if she comes to Westeros. The funny thing is that Dany wanted to destroy the Usurper and his dogs but they are all dead and the Targaryens had no hand in them. She's not even there and they're already dead. Yes I'm worried.

[Faydra]

Fear it? No. I'd welcome a restoration of the Targaryen dynasty.

[Throck]

wow! I didn't expect so many replies :bowdown:

[joluoto2]

fAegon and Dany will both sit on the throne at different times. Very much doubt they can survive it though. But I'd like fAegon to end up king and be a FAKE for the irony points.

[Guardian of the Neck]

Hell,I hope they just die out.

[Rhaquentis]

Why not? I'd also like to see a Valyria revival, or at least the beginning of it. too hopeful?

[Veltigar]

You know I'm a big fan of the Targaryens and of Jon & Dany but I'm leery that there will be a restoration of the Targaryen royal dynasty.

I feel with everything that we've seen and that has happened, if the Targaryens regain the Iron Throne it would come really close to justifying the idea of "divine right". Both the Starks and the Targaryens are the most magical families in the series to have them both ruling would be like saying that only certain families (blood) are fit to rule. It seems to me.

Now, I'm not saying it can't happen but I think if it does it would be within the framework of substantial changes to the societal structure, which I think is what you were getting at when you said it wouldn't be like the previous Targaryen reign.

Both Dany and Jon have challenged the status quo (freeing the slaves & allowing the Wilding thru the Wall) and in that respect I can see them being forces for change. What I'm unsure of if it'll be as leaders or as rulers.

I think that as rulers they are most suited to enforce this new and exciting way of ruling. Together they could do good for the Realm.

[paladin24]

I despise self-proclaimed Master Races, both real and fictional.

I also despise those who cannot win without "cheating."

[El Guapo]

Fear it? No. I'd welcome a restoration of the Targaryen dynasty.

:agree:

[Belisarius09]

I hope the Targaeryen line comes to an end and that family goes extinct.

[OldGimletEye]

I despise self-proclaimed Master Races, both real and fictional.

I also despise those who cannot win without "cheating."

Oh, don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Targaryen Party.

I was born in Valyria and that's why they call me Aerys....

[Pod The Rod]

wow! I didn't expect so many replies :bowdown:

It never ceases to amaze me which threads attract attention and which don't.

[Fire Eater]

I subscribe to that fire eater but what do you make of this? http://comeonhitme.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-will-lead-the-army-of-white-walkers-against-daenerys-targaryen-and-her-dragons/

I don't see that happening. Also, I think the only "Targaryen" Dany is going to fight is Aegon. There are no ice dragons in ASOIAF, except Jon of course. It is portrayed as Jon (ice) vs Dany (fire) when Jon is both ice and fire as the writer mentioned. It is a song of ice and fire, or balance between the two not the triumph of one over the other. Another thing, Jon isn't a Targaryen bastard or the KG wouldn't have been at the ToJ after KL fell.

Haha, when you tell it like that, it sounds strangely convincing.

By the way, Tyrion is surely planning to conquer Casterly Rock for himself by using first fAegon's and now Dany's sellswords/armies. This is not an interpretation, he told this much to Illyrio.

But I don't think he will succeed.

I think he will after the second Dance is done.