(Book and Show Spoilers) Promo and Recap

[Seneti]

OOOH GUYS! I know how they'll get around Marillion! They'll say Lysa offed herself! lol

More likely, Sansa and LF will try to stay as close to the truth as possible (the closer a lie is to the truth, the easier it is to make it sound convincing), i. e. they will say that:

- Sansa and Robin got into an argument

- Sansa let her temper slip and hit him

- Lysa attacked sansa because of it (here's the first lie, because the fight was not about Robin, but about LF)

- LF came in and tried to separate the two

- in doing so, Lysa tripped, fell and went out the moon door (second lie, because it was not an accident).

As a matter of fact, the more I think about, the more I believe that Sansa slapping Robin was put in specifically for that reason.

[Ignorant Bog Woman]

Dragonstone has been handled very badly post-Blackwater. Doesn't matter if the Stannis arrival is awesome. The lead up to it will always be botched.

[King Tommen]

I'll agree with another poster who stated the decision to give 20 episodes to ASoS was going to be beneficial to some storylines and detrimental to others. This is one of the latter.

This is the sum total of what happens in the books in this storyline in ASoS:

1.Davos Seaworth is washed ashore on a rocky island in the Narrow Sea, having been nearly killed in the epic Battle of the Blackwater. He is found by bannermen loyal to Stannis and taken back to Dragonstone. Along the way Davos comes to blame the red priestess Melisandre for Stannis' defeat and resolves to murder her.

2. Upon his arrival he is immediately locked up for treason: Melisandre saw his intent in her flames. Melisandre talks to Davos and reveals that Stannis was defeated because she was not at the battle (at his bannermen's request), and asks for Davos simply to be true to his king. She also tells him that there are not seven gods but two: R'hllor, Lord of Light and Fire, and his enemy, the Great Other, Lord of Darkness and Cold, whose war has raged since the dawn of time.

3. Stannis releases Davos and asks him to serve as his Hand. Davos agrees and begins to learn to read and write to better fulfill his office.

4. Davos meets Edric Storm, one of King Robert's many bastards whom Stannis is keeping safe from the Lannisters. Davos is horrified to learn that Melisandre wants to sacrifice Edric and his royal blood to her fires to awaken the 'stone dragons', which she thinks are the great statues that guard the castle. Stannis rejects this decision and instead gives some of his blood to the fires instead, naming the names of three men that he wants dead: Balon Greyjoy, Joffrey Baratheon and Robb Stark.

5.The success of Melisandre's spell has convinced Stannis sacrifice Edric Storm to the flames to wake the dragons. However, Davos smuggles Edric to safety. Stannis prepares to execute Davos for treason, but Davos is allowed to read the letter that lately arrived from the Wall. The news stuns Stannis and, more importantly, Melisandre.

That's it. For two seasons (or 18 episodes until they arrive at the Wall at the very end of E9).

So either you sideline these characters for large chunks of both these seasons, making them even more irrelevant than the audience already finds them or you have to come up with some additional material without getting away from what their ultimate destination is going to be at the end of ASoS. I really like the Shireen and Selyse introductions and the way Stannis got to interact with both of them. I like Gendry being used for Edric Storm as it gives the audience a more well-known character to use in that spot and also allowed for Melisandre to share scenes with Thoros and Arya, which I found interesting. And I liked the Iron Bank excursion as both an excuse to see Braavos and a great way to show Davos' value to Stannis and Stannis' complete seething rage and discomfort of having to be in this position.

So I think for the most part, they did well. There's some stuff there that I wish they'd done differently (like the way Davos is imprisoned and maybe allowing for Stannis and Davos to have a scene or two with friendlier rapport). But the characters are all more or less stuck in isolation at Dragonstone for 18 episodes and there's only so much you can do with that.

I wasn't enamoured with the storyline as a whole while reading the books until Stannis actually got off his ass and went to the Wall so I'm not surprised that viewers would feel the same way. I do think that by giving us additional material here, the show has given us more insight into the dynamics between Stannis/Mel/Davos/Shireen/Selyse and that should hopefully pay off later.

[mothbomb]

Davos seems like a survivor, beyond even Stannis. I think Davos has some role to play in the endgame, he is a good negotiator, hes essentially the Tyrion of the Stannis storyline. Another mutilated broken character who has lost everything but never seems to come across as being a dark character. his crimes of smuggling really seem minor considering the brutality of his punishment. Davos would make a great hand of the king to any faction.

[Colonel Green]

More likely, Sansa and LF will try to stay as close to the truth as possible (the closer a lie is to the truth, the easier it is to make it sound convincing), i. e. they will say that:

- Sansa and Robin got into an argument

- Sansa let her temper slip and hit him

- Lysa attacked sansa because of it (here's the first lie, because the fight was not about Robin, but about LF)

- LF came in and tried to separate the two

- in doing so, Lysa tripped, fell and went out the moon door (second lie, because it was not an accident).

As a matter of fact, the more I think about, the more I believe that Sansa slapping Robin was put in specifically for that reason.

I don't think that's very likely. As far as explanations goes, that's basically "yeah, I killed her, but it was totally by accident!" Even if they believed him, no way would they leave him in charge.

[King Tommen]

I don't think that's very likely. As far as explanations goes, that's basically "yeah, I killed her, but it was totally by accident!" Even if they believed him, no way would they leave him in charge.

It's gotta be suicide as that's the only thing that absolves LF completely and the Lord Declarants would be more inclined to buy this given how crazy they know she is. LF and Sansa just have to come up with a good reason that Lysa would do it. They're both smart kids, I'm sure they'll figure something out.

[HairGrowsBack]

It's gotta be suicide as that's the only thing that absolves LF completely and the Lord Declarants would be more inclined to buy this given how crazy they know she is. LF and Sansa just have to come up with a good reason that Lysa would do it. They're both smart kids, I'm sure they'll figure something out.

It's likely, but I do wonder what reason they'll come up with. It's very unlike Lysa to kill herself and leave her son (who is everything to her) behind.

[Thelastactionhero]

I'll agree with another poster who stated the decision to give 20 episodes to ASoS was going to be beneficial to some storylines and detrimental to others. This is one of the latter.

This is the sum total of what happens in the books in this storyline in ASoS:

That's it. For two seasons (or 18 episodes until they arrive at the Wall at the very end of E9).

So either you sideline these characters for large chunks of both these seasons, making them even more irrelevant than the audience already finds them or you have to come up with some additional material without getting away from what their ultimate destination is going to be at the end of ASoS. I really like the Shireen and Selyse introductions and the way Stannis got to interact with both of them. I like Gendry being used for Edric Storm as it gives the audience a more well-known character to use in that spot and also allowed for Melisandre to share scenes with Thoros and Arya, which I found interesting. And I liked the Iron Bank excursion as both an excuse to see Braavos and a great way to show Davos' value to Stannis and Stannis' complete seething rage and discomfort of having to be in this position.

So I think for the most part, they did well. There's some stuff there that I wish they'd done differently (like the way Davos is imprisoned and maybe allowing for Stannis and Davos to have a scene or two with friendlier rapport). But the characters are all more or less stuck in isolation at Dragonstone for 18 episodes and there's only so much you can do with that.

I wasn't enamoured with the storyline as a whole while reading the books until Stannis actually got off his ass and went to the Wall so I'm not surprised that viewers would feel the same way. I do think that by giving us additional material here, the show has given us more insight into the dynamics between Stannis/Mel/Davos/Shireen/Selyse and that should hopefully pay off later.

These are all valid points. I understand the difficulty in having to stretch out a character arc that already drags in the books over the course of two seasons, and the need for some added material, I just don't understand the decision to color Stannis in such an overtly negative manner. Some more friendliness with Davos would have helped, but it wouldn't have made up for the burning of "infidels" (The Alester Florent side-plot is a far more nuanced and compelling one) or his desire to execute Davos even after he sees the letter from the Night's Watch (that is until Mel tells him otherwise, which further deprives him of any autonomy). And it's not really just a matter of making Stannis look bad, so much as it is these events that have been, at times, needlessly altered, are a hell of a lot less morally complex than in the novels. The other problem is that Stannis' best dialogue in SoS has been largely cut, or streamlined in a way that makes him seem unambiguously sinister. I mean yeah, if they end up sending Stannis off towards some redemption arc that'll be interesting, but goddamn have they put him through the ringer. I do like the family dynamic, however. I think it's interesting how Shireen has become Stannis' one redeeming quality in the show.

[The Onion Sleight]

Since so many guys dabating here about Stannis' arrival and if it's gonna be a surprise; that are some posts from the NeoGAF / PTV Unsullied:

Stannis. Sailing north or south?

I think we're pretty close to seeing Stannis invading King's Landing again and finally becoming king which will be interesting to see if he keeps to his honor or will be influenced by Melisandre (once again similar to real history with the Vatican and other religious figures).

The problem is I want the fight to be decent but don't want it to take up too much because I'm selfish and realize this season is close to ending with a lot of plots still needing to advance in some sort of meaningful way. I mean, Stannis obviously won't be invading while this trial is going on so that means I have to wait even longer for the inevitable invasion and coronation and it's driving me crazy. I want to see if Stannis is going to be the type of king he would have been before he met Melisandre or if he'll be a zealot making things worse because of her. That and we know he's one of the few to worry about the White Walkers meaning we won't see some major action with them until he's king in my opinion. I'm hoping the end of this season has those crazy bastards starting to invade at least.

But the Stannis story is heading somewhere now. I suspect we might see the conclusion of that story arc soon, one way or another. (I'm fairly sure they're heading to King's Landing).

Where are they sailing to? I just don't see anything happening as far as his claim to the throne because even with all the money in braavos and their ships he still only has 4,000 men. Unless they hire sell swords, which I doubt, it's still going to be a while before he attacks.

The timing would be a bit off to be honest, but the way I see, if this invasion of Kings Landing is going to happen it's going to happen by the end of this season. Or else it'd happen at the end of the next season, dragging out over the entire season. I'd like to think that the show writers have heard people's complaints about dragging storylines out and would avoid doing so.

Yeah, I'm prepared for the next episode to be a total emotional rollercoaster. I think Oberyn will beat the Mountain, and it will be an awesome battle. But with all the slow wind going on with Stannis' plot, and Melisandre's conversation with Selyse... I'm half expecting Stannis to bust in un-announced with an army of mercenaries and start indiscriminately slaughtering everyone in sight. But only after Oberyn's triumphant victory over the Mountain. Because that will be the point most people will stop being prepared to lose a favorite character.

Shit, the season tag line, "All men must die" could mean be this. Stannis coming in unannounced and just slaughtering everyone.

It would make sense for Stannis to rally the north around him first then take King's Landing, but then again it's seems blackwater bay is a pretty good place to launch an attack from considering most of his force got wiped out and he still took the beach and breached the walls.

Blackwater Bay again? I don't see it happening unless he uses a two pronged approach. Like you said he would have to rally the north. But how? Payouts? ...

... Saving them from the White Walkers, but that seems like a while away

One minute into the fight the bells will sound throughout King's Landing....Stannis is coming

I'm very stunned about their preditictions (and have to laugh extremely about them XD) ... But I will admit: It's very, very difficult for me to put myself in Unsullied's shoes, I'm not sure what I'd think if I hadn't read the books... But to everybody who thought "The Unsullied aren't so dumb, they won't forget the scene in 3x10", well, it isn't a thing of forgetting (not only, Imo), it's more a mix of

- Nobody mentions even one word like "North", "Night's Watch", "Others", "Wildlings" or whatever. And nobody really says where they're heading to this whole season, or how they're going to use their new gold, for what they build again an army

and

- Of course all the talk about rights, Stannis' claim mustn't be forgotten, the situation changed after Joffrey's death, the Lannisters (and KL) are getting weaker, Stannis gets more gold/men...

Well, I think that's how hardcore Unsullied should see it: Stannis is still obsessed with his rights, the fight for the IT seems more important for him, Joffrey's death changed his opinion about their next steps (I agree that doesn't fit to the events of 3x10, but remember: That's how Unsullied sh/could see it, especially if they don't know him well!), and if he has the chance to invade KL and get the throne, why wouldn't somebody as Stannis use this?!... Now, all they have to do is giving these Unsullied a phenomenal ninth episode (and still avoiding every spoiler, e.g. NO Stannis in the Recap and the Preview!) and then the super nice talk with Jon in episode 10, about rights / duties and winning and throne / saving the kingdom and the only enemy/fight that matters, and -> their surprise worked! :lol: (IF this will really work, I'll be very satisfied!)

Especially if these people thinking the ninth episode will be Blackwater 2.0 and Stannis will slaughering a bunch of beloved characters in KL mean this seriously and then he shows up at the Wall in the ninth episode and saves a bunch of beloved people (and the whole realm), I'm looking forward to their reactions! (The people are way to traumatised after 1x09 and 3x09, their panic what will happen this year is somehow cute).

I know Unsullied who see his decision how to use his new gold and army now as a decision between KL and the Wall, so you could say KL / his rights / the fight for the IT or The Wall / his duties / the fight for his realm and his people against the only enemy that matters.

When people think he's going to choose invading KL, then they swallowed the red herring and not only episode 9 will surprise them, also Stannis' next actions, decisions, his awesome development, which fits to his coming storyline.

And Imo, won't any Unsullied say something about terrible writing (especially when the arrival is awesome), rather they'll think they got trolled/confused, but then -when they reflect about the whole sitation- they'll realized that it was The Wall all the time, and they was wrong about Stannis and hopefully begin to see him in another, better, light...

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

Here's what I don't understand about Brienne meeting up with LS by the end of the season. We last see Brienne in AFFC meeting with LS. The next time we see her is when she meets with Jaime towards the end of ADWD. Jaime's arc is not nearly as far along as hers is, I assume we won't reach any of his AFFC material until season 5, since he needs to stick around KL until episode 10 for his scene with Tyrion. So what exactly is she going to do all next season?? Were just going to get filler with her all season 5 until she meets up with Jaime? Why not just stick to the story and have her meet LS in season 5? Then the LS reveal can be the same as it was in the epilogue of ASOS to close out this season. Seems so much more neat to me.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

Since so many guys dabating here about Stannis' arrival and if it's gonna be a surprise; that are some posts from the NeoGAF / PTV Unsullied:

I'm very stunned about their preditictions (and have to laugh extremely about them XD) ... But I will admit: It's very, very difficult for me to put myself in Unsullied's shoes, I'm not sure what I'd think if I hadn't read the books... But to everybody who thought "The Unsullied aren't so dumb, they won't forget the scene in 3x10", well, it isn't a thing of forgetting (not only, Imo), it's more a mix of

- Nobody mentions even one word like "North", "Night's Watch", "Others", "Wildlings" or whatever. And nobody really says where they're heading to this whole season, or how they're going to use their new gold, for what they build again an army

and

- Of course all the talk about rights, Stannis' claim mustn't be forgotten, the situation changed after Joffrey's death, the Lannisters (and KL) are getting weaker, Stannis gets more gold/men...

Well, I think that's how hardcore Unsullied should see it: Stannis is still obsessed with his rights, the fight for the IT seems more important for him, Joffrey's death changed his opinion about their next steps (I agree that doesn't fit to the events of 3x10, but remember: That's how Unsullied sh/could see it, especially if they don't know him well!), and if he has the chance to invade KL and get the throne, why wouldn't somebody as Stannis use this?!... Now, all they have to do is giving these Unsullied a phenomenal ninth episode (and still avoiding every spoiler, e.g. NO Stannis in the Recap and the Preview!) and then the super nice talk with Jon in episode 10, about rights / duties and winning and throne / saving the kingdom and the only enemy/fight that matters, and -> their surprise worked! :lol: (IF this will really work, I'll be very satisfied!)

Especially if these people thinking the ninth episode will be Blackwater 2.0 and Stannis will slaughering a bunch of beloved characters in KL mean this seriously and then he shows up at the Wall in the ninth episode and saves a bunch of beloved people (and the whole realm), I'm looking forward to their reactions! (The people are way to traumatised after 1x09 and 3x09, their panic what will happen this year is somehow cute).

I know Unsullied who see his decision how to use his new gold and army now as a decision between KL and the Wall, so you could say KL / his rights / the fight for the IT or The Wall / his duties / the fight for his realm and his people against the only enemy that matters.

When people think he's going to choose invading KL, then they swallowed the red herring and not only episode 9 will surprise them, also Stannis' next actions, decisions, his awesome development, which fits to his coming storyline.

And Imo, won't any Unsullied say something about terrible writing (especially when the arrival is awesome), rather they'll think they got trolled/confused, but then -when they reflect about the whole sitation- they'll realized that it was The Wall all the time, and they was wrong about Stannis and hopefully begin to see him in another, better, light...

I'm happy to see this as I've been hoping Stannis's arrival at the wall will come as a complete shock to most viewers. The fact that he has gold now (how much who knows?) could actually make his appearance at the wall even more admirable. He chose to save the kingdom to win the throne. God I hope that line is included in the show.

[Arkash]

I guess Brienne wont appear next season until episode 8 or 9. They can probably work that out with Gwen's contract and it would be the best thing, imo.

[Hath4]

this year they have been willing to leave main characters out of multiple episodes. reek and bran will end up with only 4 appearances. Arya will end up with 6. So I think we will see more of this in season 5.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

I think Brienne+Freys will meet LS in the finale, where Freys get hanged, and we are left to the Season 5 premiere to await Brienne's interrogation by LS. Then she appears only toward the end of Season 5 to whisk Jaime away.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

I guess Brienne wont appear next season until episode 8 or 9. They can probably work that out with Gwen's contract and it would be the best thing, imo.

Yes I suppose if they are going to have her meet up with LS in the finale this would be the best way to handle it. It would certainly be preferable to some filler storyline for most of season 5.

[The Onion Sleight]

I'm happy to see this as I've been hoping Stannis's arrival at the wall will come as a complete shock to most viewers. The fact that he has gold now (how much who knows?) could actually make his appearance at the wall even more admirable. He chose to save the kingdom to win the throne. God I hope that line is included in the show.

:agree: That's the way I see it, too :thumbsup: (And I'm now even more hopeful/confident of the line)

[HexMachina]

I guess Brienne wont appear next season until episode 8 or 9. They can probably work that out with Gwen's contract and it would be the best thing, imo.

Would they really leave a cliffhanger for 8-9 episodes though? Cutting a main character from most of the series is one thing, but LS will be a shock factor and likely cliffhanger (what will happen to Brienne? this applies even if LS doesnt hang her this season)

[sati]

Would they really leave a cliffhanger for 8-9 episodes though? Cutting a main character from most of the series is one thing, but LS will be a shock factor and likely cliffhanger (what will happen to Brienne? this applies even if LS doesnt hang her this season)

I think Brienne simply sees Catelyn this finale - she acts horrified and the episode ends. Next season in premiere perhaps the hanging occurs and then she shows up again near the end.

[WheelofIceandFire]

I can see Arya (and The Hound) getting about 10 minutes overall in this episode (2 scenes).

There is a brief clip of The Hound telling her about how 'men kill with steel' as they walk side by side (this is most likely before their fight)

There are also a few shots of Arya practicing with needle and quicky turning around on a cliff and then a shot of her climbing on a rock (she looks suprised so i am guessing that the Hound gets attacked whilst she is practicing and she reaches him just in time to kill the last attacker)

I can see her saving his life in this episode before they show up again in the finale and the Hound asks her to give him the gift

[Chebyshov]

I think Brienne simply sees Catelyn this finale - she acts horrified and the episode ends. Next season in premiere perhaps the hanging occurs and then she shows up again near the end.

I think that's very possible. The hanging would be a hell of a long scene to set up in an episode that already has to cram in a lot.

Would they really leave a cliffhanger for 8-9 episodes though? Cutting a main character from most of the series is one thing, but LS will be a shock factor and likely cliffhanger (what will happen to Brienne? this applies even if LS doesnt hang her this season)

If Brienne isn't hung until next season, then it could work. Then again, they weren't willing to give Stannis an 8-9 episode cliffhanger this year...