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The fire was the signal for Tormund et al to attack, as discussed in 3x04.

But the WW idea is a cool added bonus.

I like the idea too, tho as in the books , only by inference on the show, the Others seem to have only 'pickets' Wights (some Others minders?) out and about that far south , that is at the Wall.

On the other hand Mance Nation's biggest problem is really The Others harassing its edges.

(The impression given in the books is that The Others are not going to put on their BIG MOVE until WINTER HAS COME, on the show Winter has been kind of wimpy so far, in the books it's more of a 'in-your-face' harbinger , tho even George is still vague about just what's going to happen and when, it seems close.)

By the by the logical thing Mance could have done is to have negotiated with the NW about a peaceful migration to behind the Wall , to which price he would have to pay would be to be peacefull and using his troops to man the all the abandoned forts along the Wall, which is what happens eventually.

But as in the books and on the show Mance is full of wrath (I am never sure why) and vainglory (I am never sure why) and the Wildlings are in a froth and don't think rationally about what's a common enemy. Sort of an analog of the Native American , tho it's not clear to me that the north would not have made an 'arrangement' with them if they had of been promised to be peaceful.

The non-cultured (so to speak) northern 'tribes' don't seem a lot different from the freefolk.

There had my say.

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I am going to likely get burned alive for saying this, but I don't get all of the Blackwater love. To me, and I am entitled to my opinion, Blackwater was a good episode but it was also full of holes.

This episode, had a lot of scenes that were very true to the book and it still gets slammed. If they hadn't wasted 45 seconds on this we could have had more of this....come on, really?

For me, this has been the best season as a whole. Yes there have been some scenes that felt wasted but there were tens of thousands of words in the books that were wasted also, it just happens. Just relax and enjoy it for what it is, because after Sunday we have 10 months to wait and speculate again. If only we had a book to read between seasons to pass the time.....

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I am going to likely get burned alive for saying this, but I don't get all of the Blackwater love. To me, and I am entitled to my opinion, Blackwater was a good episode but it was also full of holes.

This episode, had a lot of scenes that were very true to the book and it still gets slammed. If they hadn't wasted 45 seconds on this we could have had more of this....come on, really?

For me, this has been the best season as a whole. Yes there have been some scenes that felt wasted but there were tens of thousands of words in the books that were wasted also, it just happens. Just relax and enjoy it for what it is, because after Sunday we have 10 months to wait and speculate again. If only we had a book to read between seasons to pass the time.....

I completely agree. I liked BW, but it was never one of my favorite episodes...but I see people who treat it like the epitome of filmmaking. I though WotW was a much bigger achievement. I've seen numerous people comparing this to Helm's Deep...that's HUGE for a tv show. No, it doesn't have all of the witty banter like KL, but it's not supposed to. These are hardened men and scared boys, all of whom are expecting to die. They aren't going to sit around, drinking wine and scaring the shit out of their bros just to be an ass...they are going to prepare and talk about women, fighting and dying. Just the scope of this episode leaves me astounded on rewatch. It's amazing, and BW pales in comparison.

Just my two cents.

Edited by sj4iy

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I completely agree. I liked BW, but it was never one of my favorite episodes...but I see people who treat it like the epitome of filmmaking. I though WotW was a much bigger achievement. I've seen numerous people comparing this to Helm's Deep...that's HUGE for a tv show. No, it doesn't have all of the witty banter like KL, but it's not supposed to. These are hardened men and scared boys, all of whom are expecting to die. They aren't going to sit around, drinking wine and scaring the shit out of their bros just to be an ass...they are going to prepare and talk about women, fighting and dying. Just the scope of this episode leaves me astounded on rewatch. It's amazing, and BW pales in comparison.

Blackwater bashing to push his lame emo Gary Stu darling

COOL STORY, BRO

Edited by KingRenly

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Blackwater bashing to push his lame emo Gary Stu darling

COOL STORY, BRO

I liked one over the other...big fucking whoop. I didn't bash BW, either- I liked it, I just liked this episode better.

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There's really no appropriate place to post this, but Sam and Gilly seem to be dating IRL. I think my brain exploded from the cute: http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/152015/Game-Of-Thrones-Are-Gilly-And-Samwell-Dating-In-Real-Life

Sophie Turner adopting Lady is always going to be the cutest sidenote to come out of production of this series.

But this is up there too. :)

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That is both beautiful and heartbreaking........great to see them together, and still sad that Lady does not live. They both look gorgeous, though. That almost reminds me of a long haired Alaskan Malamute that a neighbor has that gets walked by my yard everyday. That dog looks like a huge polar bear, but luckily, she's quite huggable. "Lady" still looks oh so Ladylike.

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I like the idea too, tho as in the books , only by inference on the show, the Others seem to have only 'pickets' Wights (some Others minders?) out and about that far south , that is at the Wall.

On the other hand Mance Nation's biggest problem is really The Others harassing its edges.

(The impression given in the books is that The Others are not going to put on their BIG MOVE until WINTER HAS COME, on the show Winter has been kind of wimpy so far, in the books it's more of a 'in-your-face' harbinger , tho even George is still vague about just what's going to happen and when, it seems close.)

By the by the logical thing Mance could have done is to have negotiated with the NW about a peaceful migration to behind the Wall , to which price he would have to pay would be to be peacefull and using his troops to man the all the abandoned forts along the Wall, which is what happens eventually.

But as in the books and on the show Mance is full of wrath (I am never sure why) and vainglory (I am never sure why) and the Wildlings are in a froth and don't think rationally about what's a common enemy. Sort of an analog of the Native American , tho it's not clear to me that the north would not have made an 'arrangement' with them if they had of been promised to be peaceful.

The non-cultured (so to speak) northern 'tribes' don't seem a lot different from the freefolk.

There had my say.

Nicely stated.

Concerning the bolded part; as a Native (Arctic born/bred), I do sympathise with the Free Folk. They (the Free Folk) are aware of the impending danger and have decided to fight for their lives no matter the cost. They are being led by a man who (from what I recall) hasn't once attempted to contact the Night's Watch to warn them or reason with them, and he somehow manages to focus or magnify the wrath/resentment the Free Folk feel at being shut out of the 'realms of man' ... in essence they're tired of being told that they are not men/human.

The First Nations fought to keep their ancestral migration routes open. The slaughter of the herds that the First Nations had followed for countless generations was probably the greatest source of their rage. There were warriors (Tecumseh, offhand) who tried to bring the nations together to drive away/slaughter the settlers, but most elders and chiefs chose to attempt negotiations rather than see the destruction of their ways.

I am going to likely get burned alive for saying this, but I don't get all of the Blackwater love. To me, and I am entitled to my opinion, Blackwater was a good episode but it was also full of holes.

This episode, had a lot of scenes that were very true to the book and it still gets slammed. If they hadn't wasted 45 seconds on this we could have had more of this....come on, really?

For me, this has been the best season as a whole. Yes there have been some scenes that felt wasted but there were tens of thousands of words in the books that were wasted also, it just happens. Just relax and enjoy it for what it is, because after Sunday we have 10 months to wait and speculate again. If only we had a book to read between seasons to pass the time.....

I think much of the Blackwater love has to do with Tyrion and the political climate of King's Landing, quite honestly. I was never invested emotionally in the Lannisters (or King's Landing) or the back-stabbing/squabbling/scheming. They all come across as self-indulgent, entitled jerks. But I am a Neil Marshall fan - and knowing he only had a few days to get everything prepared, I think he did a bang-up job.

The reason I liked this past episode so much more is because of my emotional investment in the Night's Watch. They are a group of uncouth, raw, and rather savage men/boys, and they live a day-to-day existence with very little awareness or recognition from the south concerning their sacrifices. I shed a few tears, and dug holes in my husband's hand while watching ... and I'm still sad about the deaths.

There's really no appropriate place to post this, but Sam and Gilly seem to be dating IRL. I think my brain exploded from the cute: http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/152015/Game-Of-Thrones-Are-Gilly-And-Samwell-Dating-In-Real-Life

Gawds ... that makes me think the scene where Gilly was about to whale on Sam even more cute. The look on her face when she realised it was him was just so perfect ...

Oh, I love that photo. I remember when the story came out (Sansa adopts Lady in Real Life), I just wanted to hug Sophie Turner. Ned killing Lady was the first time I shed tears watching this show, so it gladdened my heart to have a RL happy ending. :)

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Chebyshov, on 12 Jun 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

There's really no appropriate place to post this, but Sam and Gilly seem to be dating IRL. I think my brain exploded from the cute: http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/152015/Game-Of-Thrones-Are-Gilly-And-Samwell-Dating-In-Real-Life

this just made me smile :)

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Now that TV Alliser Thorne has shown actual leadership ability, does anyone else think he'll be merged with Ser Denys Mallister if the election comes next season? I see the Mallister merge more than Bown Marsh. The wound that Thorne got from Tormund could conceivably harden him against the wildlings, but, unlike Marsh, he doesn't seem stupid enough now to forget that the WW are coming and will be less difficult to fight if thousands of potential free folk wights can be made living allies.


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Now, I didn't read through every page of this thread due to the fact that I just watched the episode a few moments ago and haven't had much time, but who exactly was the girl Maester Aemon was referring to when he spoke with Sam right before the beginning of the battle? I've always wanted to learn more about his past, as he seems to me like one of the most interesting characters.


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Now, I didn't read through every page of this thread due to the fact that I just watched the episode a few moments ago and haven't had much time, but who exactly was the girl Maester Aemon was referring to when he spoke with Sam right before the beginning of the battle? I've always wanted to learn more about his past, as he seems to me like one of the most interesting characters.

I don't have evidence for this, but I immediately thought of Sheira Seastar (although Aemon would be 20-30 years younger than Sheira or BR); maybe that would explain why Aemon and Brynden Rivers don't talk?

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Aww, that's lovely! :)

I think Ygritte saved Gilly because she 'smelled out' she was a Wilding.

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I wonder how many men of the NW were slayed in this episode. If there were somewhere between 100 and 200 of them, I think their number now is between 50 and 100 after the battle. They need to fill their number at all cost.


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I wonder how many men of the NW were slayed in this episode. If there were somewhere between 100 and 200 of them, I think their number now is between 50 and 100 after the battle. They need to fill their number at all cost.

There were 102 before the battle. Someone counted every NW death and it was above 40.

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