Young Nan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 So, I have always been against the "Varys planted Shae in Tywin's bed" theories because they require way too many different variables to come together to work. In the show, Tywin clearly knew Shae was there, and Shae herself said "Tywin, my lion?" when she woke up. Does tonight's episode put those theories to rest? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I hope so. I don't know why people thought Varys put her there, without Tywin knowing she was there the whole time, you know, him only being a couple of meters away. Plus, her being there because of her own free will is so much more interesting to the story, than her being put there by Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKS Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I hope so. I don't know why people thought Varys put her there, without Tywin knowing she was there the whole time, you know, him only being a couple of meters away. Plus, her being there because of her own free will is so much more interesting to the story, than her being put there by Varys. Because GRRM himself said there was more to this moment (and Varys involvement) that will come out in later books. UKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The show is different than the books. Personally I find it more thematically interesting if Shae was not planted but Tywin was fucking his son's whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clariana Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Is it possible to read into this that Tywin was setting up Tyrion with Shae all along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Never sat right with me in the books let alone the show that tywin would fuck what he perceived to just be his sons whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Newcastle Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I don't think the show can be used to back up book theories. They aren't the same. I think Tywin was a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 So, I have always been against the "Varys planted Shae in Tywin's bed" theories because they require way too many different variables to come together to work. In the show, Tywin clearly knew Shae was there, and Shae herself said "Tywin, my lion?" when she woke up. Does tonight's episode put those theories to rest? I think so. Yeah, the show also clearly indicates that Tyrion is completely over his first wife, he never bothers to even mention her name. It's the books that got it wrong. More direct answer: no, whatever you've seen on TV has no bearing on what is, and is not, true in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacunnin Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The problem is, the show is trying to have it both ways. The writers went out of their way to make it clear that Shae loved Tyrion, and that she wasn't out for money - she wasn't just a whore. But that scene last night certainly suggested otherwise. Not only did she call Tywin "My lion" (her love-name for Tyrion), but the second she saw Tyrion she went for that knife to kill him! So now what are we supposed to think? I honestly don't get it. And why did Tyrion go up to the Tower of the Hand in the first place? There was no Tysha reveal, no reason for Tyrion to visit dear old dad. And the suggestion is that Tyrion killed Tywin because of Shae. She was in Tywin's bed, and Tyrion was forced to kill her (he felt so bad about having to do that, but he did have to do it, right?), and it's all Tywin's fault. So he kills his father because it was Tywin's fault that he had to kill the woman he loved. Contrived, annoying, and ultimately weak. And with Tyrion and Jaime on such good terms, what motivation does Tyrion have now for joining forces with Dany against the Lannisters??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The problem is, the show is trying to have it both ways. The writers went out of their way to make it clear that Shae loved Tyrion, and that she wasn't out for money - she wasn't just a whore. But that scene last night certainly suggested otherwise. Not only did she call Tywin "My lion" (her love-name for Tyrion), but the second she saw Tyrion she went for that knife to kill him! So now what are we supposed to think? I honestly don't get it. And why did Tyrion go up to the Tower of the Hand in the first place? There was no Tysha reveal, no reason for Tyrion to visit dear old dad. Except that little "sentence you to death" thing, which Tyrion seems to be pissed off about. Sounds like a good enough reason for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I don't think the show can be used to back up book theories. They aren't the same.I think Tywin was a hypocrite. It's just another sign of how much Tywin is Tyrion's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The problem is, the show is trying to have it both ways. The writers went out of their way to make it clear that Shae loved Tyrion, and that she wasn't out for money - she wasn't just a whore. But that scene last night certainly suggested otherwise. Not only did she call Tywin "My lion" (her love-name for Tyrion), but the second she saw Tyrion she went for that knife to kill him! So now what are we supposed to think? Shae's actress did a scene and said that Shae was angry at Tyrion but not for the reasons he thinks. She wasn't upset with Tyrion because he broke up with her/romantic love but because his banishing her forced her back into destitution and being a hooker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'lady Cynthia Rayder Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 What the scene in the show showed me was that Tyrion went to the Tywins room to kill Tywin, before escaping. When he saw Shae there, he was shocked and raged. I am not sure he was going to kill her but then when she grabbed the knife it turned into a struggle, he has to kill her or risk her getting to Tywin and alerting of his escape. I love the way it played out. I loved Tywin saying that he was going to free Tyrion some how, lies lies lies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Except that little "sentence you to death" thing, which Tyrion seems to be pissed off about. Sounds like a good enough reason for me. Not to me - he is taking the chance on getting caught because the guy he backed lost in the fight. That Tywin said the words of the sentence aren't his fault - he's the Hand. Tyrion really didn't have impetus to go up there and do anything, he should have just bugged out. as for "does this prove" - no, it proves nothing from the books. None of the things that happen in the books prove anything in the show and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Not to me - he is taking the chance on getting caught because the guy he backed lost in the fight. That Tywin said the words of the sentence aren't his fault - he's the Hand. Tyrion really didn't have impetus to go up there and do anything, he should have just bugged out. Show!Tyrion simply sees it differently: I am your son and you sentenced me to die. You knew I didn't poison Joffrey, but you sentenced me all the same. So he does blame Tywin. Just? Logical? Maybe not. But certainly understandable. He's emotional, and fuck everything but his wounded feelings. On its own, it's not bad drama. Just a dreadful adaptation of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isiman Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Because GRRM himself said there was more to this moment (and Varys involvement) that will come out in later books. UKS Source? Anyway perhaps GRRM is refering to the poisoned Tywin theory, which has some validity (corpse having a very strange smell....) while the Shae planted theory is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Honestly, I think the show botched the relationship between Shae and Tyrion and Tyrion's reasons for killing Shae and Tywin completely up. It would have been easy and would have only cost 2-3 minutes to include the Tysha incident when Tyrion talked to Bronn before his marriage to Sansa (something like: " I have made bad experiences with marriages. When I was thirteen ..."). Killing Tywin because he ordered the gang-rape of his wife is a far better reason (and it explain why Tyrion shoots, when Tywin says "whore") than the reason D and D gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yeah, the show also clearly indicates that Tyrion is completely over his first wife, he never bothers to even mention her name. It's the books that got it wrong. More direct answer: no, whatever you've seen on TV has no bearing on what is, and is not, true in the books. Did they even mention Tysha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion's Third Wife Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Honestly, I think the show made her motivations really confusing. She wanted Tyrion to go over the narrow sea with her, but she refused Varys' offer to go alone, with lots of money. Then seemingly decided to take the Lannister's money and stay in King's Landing. I'm just lost. I didn't like book Shae, but I am even less of a fan of show Shae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fevre River Warrior Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I like the fact that HBO kept Shae's deceit in the story. In the book she was not so likable as she was in the HBO series and I was afraid they were going to change her story line. I do think Tysha should have been added....but I still loved the scenes and thought they were very well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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