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Lady Gwynhyfvar

(Spoilers) Sons of the Dragon Reading at LonCon Today

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It looks like a Maegor was needed to keep the Realm together and defeat the rebel lords, not an Aenys. And a Jaehaerys is needed to clean the mess the Maegor created.

I think Dany will be the new "Maegor with teats" (a title invented for her parallel Rhaenyra) and Jon will be the new Jaehaerys to clean the mess after the civil wars and the Long Night.

I don't think Dany is a parallel of any one Targaryen. She is sort of an amalgamation of several. For example, she shares the reluctance of Aenys to use his dragons, she is capable of the destruction that comes with conquering, like Aegon I, she allows herself to be ruled by others like Viserys I, she is also capable of compassion like Aegon V, has showed on a few occassions that she is capable of exacting cruel punishment like Maegor. I don't believe she is as ruthless and cruel as him though (not saying much really. To twist a phrase from Lady Oakheart - "Kinder than Maegor is drier than the sea")...I'm sure there are others, but those are off the top of my head.

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King's Landing, I assume. Since Jaehaerys and Jaehaera lived there.

Oh, wait, we don't know that their dragons were hatched by them do we....well I would still stick with KL, because it seems a bit odd if the hatchlings to be moved from Dragonstone to KL

I was talking about when, not where :P the dragons were hatchlings, and with Maelor and Rhaenyra's kids receiving an egg, surely the twins did too.

But I was thinking more along the line of the two dragons being too young to be ridden during the Dance (or the twins were too young still). Figuring out their age might tell us something, but the birth of these two dragons isn't stated anywhere.

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Radio Westeros was at LonCon last week for Grrm’s ‘Sons of the Dragon’ reading. We offer both a podcast and written summary about it.


The podcast has lots more content from LonCon, here’s the breakdown :


* Intro

* Sons of the dragon analysis 1

* Interview with Elio & Linda about making ‘the World of Ice and Fire’

* Sons of the dragon analysis 2 (Four false kings)

* Reading of the Field of Fire arranged to music

* Interview with Ser Mountain Goat (animated asoiaf timeline project & cofounder of TitanCon)

* Song from the fandom - Tall Like Tyrion ‘the bear and the maiden fair’

* Interview with Xray (Brotherhood without Banners fangroup leader & long term grrm fan)

* Outro discussion

LISTEN HERE

Here’s the notes…


Sons of the Dragon, as written by arch-maester Gyldayn:

"he was a strongly opinionated and pedantic old fart, so remember that it's him speaking"


Aegon the conquerors two sister-wives had the classic looks and beauty of true Targaryens and each gave the conqueor a son, but otherwise were very different people. Rhaenys birthed Aenys in 7AC, he was a weak and sickly child. Rumours circulated that because Aenys was so unlike Aegon, he might be a bastard child from another father. When he was given Quicksilver, a baby dragon born on dragonstone, he grew stronger. When he was three, Rhaenys and her dragon were killed in Dorne. He regressed and became weak again.


Visenya became pregnant, and birthed Maegor, a strong child who immediately seemed an opposite of Aenys. Maegor stayed with his mother on Dragonstone, and the title 'prince of Dragonstone' was given. He was rumoured to have slain a cat at the age of three.


Aenys became a reasonable fighter, occasionally wielding Aegon's Blackfyre. However, his real gifts were elsewhere: an attractive, clever, likeable young man. He was a good rider, and loved to mount Quicksilver. Maegor wasnt't such a good rider, he didn't like animals and was kicked by a horse at the age of eight. Maegor sought revenge by cutting the stable boys face and killed the horse. This kind of behaviour left him with few friends. Despite being unpopular, Maegor was a promising warrior from a young age; jousting, melee and so forth. Visenya gave him Dark Sister in 25 AC, aged 13.


So far we see how unalike the two half brothers are. (this theme of opposing siblings is not new to AsoIaF – Daemon Blackfyre and Daeron II being a close parallel. The rumours of Aenys being a bastard might be countered by the fact the gossips were comparing him to Aegon – perhaps Rhaenys was fond of animals and charismatic as Aenys seems to have been.)


The Targaryens interbred as was tradition among many families in Valyria “particularly those who bred and rode dragons – the blood of the dragon must remain pure, the wisdom went.”


The Faith despised incest – the friction between a Targaryen rule was inevitable. Aegon was a great diplomat, and worked with the Faith to maintain a functional relationship. With no sisters, in 22AC, Aenys married Alyssa Valyron, they were both fifteen. They were happy times, the realm welcomed Rhaena into the world. This pushed Maegor down the succession order, and the Faith suggested he took Ceryse Hightower as a wife to avoid any incest.


In 25AC Maegor married Ceryse with Aegon's diplomatic blessing. Maegor, aged 13, boasted of consummating the marriage a dozen time on their bedding night, his bride was 23. Ceryse couldn’t conceive, however, and Aenys fathered another Aegon in that time. In 29 AC Alyssa birthed Viserys, in 34AC – Jaehaerys, in 36AC Alysanne. Maegor was slipping down the line. At sixteen he became the youngest knight (by Blackfyre), and was proving to be a warrior. He rooted out a pirate king Sargasso Saan, but wasn't a dragon rider at that point, perhaps afraid.


King Aegon was aging, and in 35 AC he ordered his hand, Alan Stokeworth, to build a new castle with Visenya. Aegon died in 37AC, cremated with Blackfyre – which didnt melt due to being Valyrian Steel - “no common fire can harm Valyrian Steel”.


Aenys was crowned, and offered Maegor the chance to rule the kingdoms together, giving him Blackfyre as he was the better warrior (perhaps aenys was diplomatic like Aegon was). The new king was challenged immediately, as bandits arose. (remember Targs had not ruled for very long). Harren the Red, a Vulture King, King Logos, and Jonos Arryn caused trouble. Aenys did not deal with the rebels effectively. (for extensive details on these rebels, listen to our podcast).


Maegor dealt with Jonos Arryn when he finally mounted Balerion. (so Maegor takes on Aegon's warrior side and Aenys has Aegons diplomatic traits. Put these two together and there's a good king there, but both half-brothers have weaknesses Aegon did not). Maegor scored more victories against rebels, and Aenys named him hand of the king.


Aenys veered away from battle, and was somewhat bohemian, again contrasting with Maegor. With Alyssa birthing six children, Maegor abandoned his wife and wed Alys Harroway. This was polygamous and shocked the kingdoms, Faith and everyone else – akin to incest. Aenys ordered him to give up his wife, fearing the Faith's reaction, but Maegor chose five years of exile in Pentos instead.


Aeyns became inspired and worked hard to finish the Red Keep. In this time he contemplated the Targaryen traditions, and thinking of the thousand year legacy he planned for the Red Keep, made the disastrous decision to wed son and daughter – Aegon and Rhaena – aged eighteen and fifteen. (full details of why Aenys did this are unknown).


With Maegor gone, The Faith sensed weakness and stood up to Aenys, who didn't understand how his popularity has diminished. Aenys was a thinker and philosopher and wasn't ready for this degree of confrontation. The likeable man was now a hated king, and the Faith dubbed him 'king abomination' for his part in the incestuous marriage. At this point Aenys was very naïve as a leader, power was slipping. The Faith grew very strong, and many saw it as a holy war, denouncing the Targaryen rule.


Aenys became frail and retreated to Dragonstone - Visenya was present. He had problems with his bowels and became very sick. When the maesters could no longer care for him, Visenya took over. Three days later Aenys was dead. (the implication could be Aeyns was poisoned with tears of Lys – the bowels – by Visenya. Regardless Aenys struggled with pressure, remembering he was a weak child.)

Visenya flew straight to Pentos on Vaegar within hours of Aenys' death, and returned with Maegor riding Balerion (the possibility Visenya murdered Aenys now looks even more intriguing).

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Very interesting. Thanks for the podcast, and to all the reporters.

I'm eager to discover who killed Maegor, now. One of Jaehaerys sons? Rhaena herself? If he was killed in the Iron Throne by surprise, that would point towards someone that was close to him.

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Very interesting. Thanks for the podcast, and to all the reporters.I'm eager to discover who killed Maegor, now. One of Jaehaerys sons? Rhaena herself? If he was killed in the Iron Throne by surprise, that would point towards someone that was close to him.

The iron throne... cough cough the kingsguard killed him.

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Very interesting. Thanks for the podcast, and to all the reporters.

I'm eager to discover who killed Maegor, now. One of Jaehaerys sons? Rhaena herself? If he was killed in the Iron Throne by surprise, that would point towards someone that was close to him.

With Jaehaerys being only 14 at Maegor's death, I doubt that is was a son of his :p

Perhaps it was suicide? I mean, if the entire seven kingdoms were slowly turning against him.. Visenya was dead, Jaehaerys and Alysanne had escaped, he couldn´t get himself an heir of his own blood. A lot to handle when your brain (Visenya) is no longer on hand to help you.

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My suspicion is that the next reading at a con will be the reign of Maegor, probably extending into that of Jaehaerys as well - but by then the World book will be published and we will have learned more of Maegor's fate.


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With Jaehaerys being only 14 at Maegor's death, I doubt that is was a son of his :P

If an inanimate object such as a throne is considered a suspect by some, surely an unborn child has to be fair ground too!

(seriously, that's what happens when you return from holidays to find that huge pack of information to digest. I'll need time to settle! :P)

I don't think that I see Maegor comitting suicide. He doesn't seem to have self steem problems (boasting about geting her wife pregnat, waiting to ride Balerion,...). But surely Visenya's death affected him a lot, perhaps making him crueler than before and leading to his downfall.

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Wonderful! Thank you very much :)

Yandel = Ee-andel? That will take some time to remember :lol: :wideeyed:

ETA: And Yolkboy, you tease! :tantrum: You've read stuff we haven't, garghhh! :p

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Responses to Radio Westeros podcast:

It isn't a "fake history book" it's "a book about the history of Westeros"

Grrm called it "fake history". I was there. It's an actual quote.

Not sure you where your "quotes" come from.

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Wonderful! Thank you very much :)

Yandel = Ee-andel? That will take some time to remember :lol: :wideeyed:

ETA: And Yolkboy, you tease! :tantrum: You've read stuff we haven't, garghhh! :P

Glad you enjoyed!

Ha, it was just a small passage I got to read! But one that was a surprise.

Can't wait until WoIaF is released.

Thanks for listening.

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Grrm called it "fake history". I was there. It's an actual quote.

Not sure you where your "quotes" come from.

Oh. Srry, didn't realize GRRM himself calls it that.

I'm actually going to save space by updating my original comment post (further up this page) with new questions as I listen to the podcast...

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Aenys veered away from battle, and was somewhat bohemian, again contrasting with Maegor. With Alyssa birthing six children, Maegor abandoned his wife and wed Alys Harroway. This was polygamous and shocked the kingdoms, Faith and everyone else – akin to incest. Aenys ordered him to give up his wife, fearing the Faith's reaction, but Maegor chose five years of exile in Pentos instead.

Thanks for the report. I just wanted to ask for clarification on one thing. A previous report suggested that Maegor "set aside" Ceryse Hightower and you say he abandoned her. I'm guessing their marriage was never annulled, because that would solve the polygamy issue. Do you have any idea why Maegor didn't get an annulment? I get that the High Septon was her uncle, and thus probably would have refused at first. You'd think he'd annul her marriage after it became clear Maegor was not going to give up Alys Harroway, once he was exiled.

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I wonder how many marriages it took before people started to realise the problem was Maegor not his wives. There must have come a point where people whispered the problem resided within him and not his wife/wives. Maybe after the third one?


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A previous report suggested that Maegor "set aside" Ceryse Hightower and you say he abandoned her. I'm guessing their marriage was never annulled, because that would solve the polygamy issue. Do you have any idea why Maegor didn't get an annulment? I get that the High Septon was her uncle, and thus probably would have refused at first. You'd think he'd annul her marriage after it became clear Maegor was not going to give up Alys Harroway, once he was exiled.

What was their interest? By 39, the deserted wife Ceryse was 37. Was she attractive for a second marriage, needing an annulment?

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What was their interest? By 39, the deserted wife Ceryse was 37. Was she attractive for a second marriage, needing an annulment?

She might not want or be able to remarry, but I would think she and her uncle would't want her to be married in the eyes of the gods and men to Maegor at that point. Like in our world a woman might divorce a cheating husband not because she has thoughts of remarriage, but just because she didn't want to remain married to someone who openly cheats on her. Plus it would make Maegor's marriage to Alys Harroway not polygamous.

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If I got it correctly, then Maegor abandoned Ceryse when he went into exile and took only Alys with him. My guess is that the High Septon, the Hightowers, and Aenys still hoped to set aside the marriage to Alys (or force Maegor to get rid of her, should he ever return). That's why they also tried to make Ceryse fertile.



That ended in 41 when the High Septon decided that the Faith would get rid of all the Targaryens, not just this polygamous prick, Maegor.


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Questions from Radio Westeros podcast:


  • Was it "Sargasso Saan" or "Salassor Saan"? You say in the podcast you have "Sargasso" written down - others in this thread said "Salassor".
  • So it's ABSOLUTELY confirmed, direct statement which you remember clearly, that Aenys had no sisters? (and that earlier report just got confused between Rhaena and Maegor?)

  • "Quentyn Qoherys (died 9 AC) his grandson Gargon practiced first night. A bride he took later let Harren the Red (alleged grandson of Harren the Black) through the gates of Harrenhal. Castrated Gargon and fed his genitiles to the dogs. Harren killed everyone in Harrenhal and then fled to the woods nearby. Later killed by (Bernard Brune?); Harren the Red was he first of the four false kings to rise but the last to be subdued." ---- Spelling of Quentyn and "Gargon" and "Bernard Brune" correct? Did Gargon directly succeed his grandfather Quentyn in 9 AC, or was his father Lord of Harrenhal as well?



  • Was Quentyn Qoherys master-at-arms of Dragonstone or castellan? I know he was a retainer of some kind...




  • Spelling question: "Harmon Dondarrion"? What was the name of the Princess of Dorne at the time, "Deriah"?




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