Reclining in Coach

[DanteGabriel]

No you are right it is completely important to bring a 4-year-old on a vacation he is not going to remember instead of leaving him with his grandmother.

You're very well informed about the situations of all traveling families. Good job ending discussion on this, btw.

May you one day end up with a baby who is inconsolable above 10,000 feet, with no child care options and a burning need to bring your family with you somewhere. And people just like you for three rows deep around you.

[Whitestripe]

I'm sorry about your father and the ordeal you had to go through. My post wasn't meant for such cases (and in such cases yeah its justified) and I don't think the majority of travelling children have such serious reasons to travel, at least not in my flights.

Thanks. He survived and is still going strong at 80. :)

However (and I really am not trying to be antagonistic) You don't know if the families are just going for a vacation jaunt or not. dalThor lives in Greece and his family lives in the US. He and Mash recently took their toddler twins to see his family... From Greece to Florida. It might have looked like a family jaunt, but was a necessary trip. My sister lives in California and her in-laws are in London. When she takes her children on an international flight, they aren't just going on vacation for the hell of it.

[Stannisaurus2]

You're very well informed about the situations of all traveling families.

I don't have to be informed about them because its not like i'm gonna do anything about it :rolleyes:.

Yes probably some (a few) of whom I have seen as tourists were not tourists. So what? It's not like I act on those assumptions.

Good job ending discussion on this, btw.

What can I say when people give you enough material to work with...

May you one day end up with a baby who is inconsolable above 10,000 feet, with no child care options and a burning need to bring your family with you somewhere. And people just like you for three rows deep around you.

And? At least unlike you I will recognize that (unless it was an emergency) I was the one being selfish and their uneasiness is justified

[Stannisaurus2]

Thanks. He survived and is still going strong at 80. :)

Ah, good to hear

However (and I really am not trying to be antagonistic) You don't know if the families are just going for a vacation jaunt or not. dalThor lives in Greece and his family lives in the US. He and Mash recently took their toddler twins to see his family... From Greece to Florida. It might have looked like a family jaunt, but was a necessary trip. My sister lives in California and her in-laws are in London. When she takes her children on an international flight, they aren't just going on vacation for the hell of it.

I am aware that I may sometimes mislabel someone as "tourist" but I don't think it matters since it doesn't really have any effect on them. I keep my assumptions to myself. And anyway my usual flight route, if you don't count students, is always 95% tourists which is why I am comfortable in making those assumptions.

[Elder Sister]

Stop hating on the babies and the parents who have to bring them. Seriously; what sort of selfish asshat complains about a crying baby on a plane?

Get a damn pair of headphones and get over it.

[dalThor]

No you are right it is completely important to bring a 4-year-old on a vacation he is not going to remember instead of leaving him with his grandmother.

It's completely important to travel with three year-olds when grandma will remember it. And yes, our destination was, oh God, Orlando. We were definitely selfish tourists.

I have to say that, with two mishaps, our 22 hour ordeals back and forth were relatively uneventful. This was largely due to the preparations my wife and I had made. We had bags of crap to keep them occupied and had started talking about flying months before they ever boarded their first airplane. A. had fallen asleep on the descent into Orlando and we had to wake him up as we were taxiing to the gate. He started crying and continued as we left the plane. Some asshat waiting in the gate said to him, "Don't cry, you're going to see Mickey!" (Poor kid, we didn't even go see Mickey.)

Considering we had two layovers both ways they were incredibly good and we were very proud of them. I'm glad we didn't offend anyone by taking our children to see their aging grandmother.

[Inigima]

I do expect parents to make a best-effort attempt to quiet their screaming kids, because a crying baby is SUPER ANNOYING. I recognize that it's not always possible, kids being what they are, but I expect them to try and be suitably embarrassed. It is regarded as obnoxious widely enough that it's common to buy drinks for the people around you by way of apology.

My brother and I traveled by air when we were less than a year old. I am told we were model citizens. By the time we were a few years old a plane ride was just another chance to read, so it wasn't a problem going forward.

[lady narcissa]

Noises such as babies crying do not bother me when flying because they can be easily blocked out with earplugs and/or headphones. Its when people start physically invading your extremely limited seat space (armrest wars, reclining seats, legs spread wide) or spilling their beverages on you that I get annoyed.

[Pendergraft]

So when my daughter was 10 months old and my son was not quite 3, my dad was diagnosed with a bladder tumor. He lives 3,000 miles away. Thinking that it might be the last Christmas we would have with him, we took the kids to Christmas at their house. I didn't fly anywhere again for three years after that. Horrible. I swore I wouldn't travel with the kids again until they were in high school, and the flight attendants actually congratulated us on how well-behaved our children were on the plane.

Unfortunately, if my kids are going to see their grandparents, we have to go to them. Traveling with young children is absolute hell. Not only do you have to worry a about all the shit you have to lug with you (car seats, diapers, sippy cups, toys...) you also have to endure the judgement of every single passenger when your kid isn't a perfect angel on the plane. A three hour delay is a pain in the arse for a grown up traveller. It's an absolute nightmare for a parent. I would seriously rather slit my wrists in the bathroom than take a baby on a plane, but sometimes, you have to.

Dude, my kids are elementary school age and I still don't like to travel with them. It disrupts their schedule, makes them cranky and stresses me out. You haven't lived until you miss the last flight of the evening (due to delays) and you've got to figure out what to do with a 5 and 7 year old over night.

Had the same situation, I was living in Toronto at that time, my Dad had a massive heart attack and in critical condition. I was rushing to get flights out of the TO to get to Guam as fast as possible. Its 23 hour flight with 2 stop overs Vancouver & Korea, incidentally I was also afraid Canadian Immigration would stop me from leaving because my documents for permanent residence was still under process. Checked in at the gate and requested to be seated nowhere near kids, since I'm under a lot of stress and didn't want to put myself in any situation that would add to that. Low and behold I get seated 4 rows away from twin babies, directly in front of the divider to the business section. One baby for each parent, which looked to me newborns at least 6 months old. I asked to be moved or get bumped to business class if there was any seat available since I had silver elite status. But the flight was full and was told they can check if the 2nd leg of the flight will have any opening for me. This confirmed to me that these twins will be traveling all the way to Korea. The entire flight from TO to Vancouver, both babies we're crying bloody murder, the flight attendants requested the parents to separate the babies on each side of the Boeing 747. The second leg of the flight nothing changed, both babies crying in unison, until they get fed and we have about 10-20 mins of silence and then it goes again. Then the parents would walk up and down the aisle thinking they can rock them to sleep, but nooo two shrieking babies after the other on each side of the plane like a crescendo getting louder and louder as they get close and pass you by. It was impossible to sleep or relax not even with regular headphones or two glasses of rum and coke. Then when you thought you were out of the woods and they were finally quiet and you can squeeze a blink, one baby cries and then the other soon after. People started complaining in business class and our cabin but what could the flight attendants really do? It felt like a 24 hour flight instead of 13 hours, everyone was haggard and couldn't wait to get off the plane after that. The flight attendants we're apologetic when we were getting out of the plane and passengers making snark comments as they pass. As for me, I decided to invest in a noise canceling Bose headphones before I got into another flight again, so far its been great!

[Cuellar]

I don't get all the recliner hate. I travel probably 100,000 miles a year, am a big guy, and usually recline my seat. Pretty much Delta, AA, and United suck across the board, so if you don't want the person in front of you to get up in your business, book a different airline. I almost always will either get an economy plus seat (status or pay for it out of my own pocket), because I know how bad flying is. If you pay $2 for your airline seat, of course it is going to suck. You get what you pay for, and if you want the privilege of someone in front of you not leaning into your space, BOOK YOUR ASS UP FRONT. Economy plus for transcons can be around $50 extra a pop, otherwise anywhere from $20-50.

Yes my legs get crushed if someone reclines their seat, but I've found if you don't stick your baggage in front of your seat (or put it BEHIND your legs instead), you can stretch out your legs pretty easily.

You guys should check seatguru.com on the airplane seating BEFORE you select seats. You'll know if your seat has a window (some don't), whether they recline, and any other issues that make for a miserable plane. It makes a huge difference if you employ a little strategy as well, and try to select airplanes that aren't horrible or that aren't quite as filled. Sometimes it's worth it to pay the extra $10 to be on an empty plane or in a bulkhead seat. My mom for example always gets sick on small planes, so I purposely spend extra to book her on a 747 instead of a regional jet. Hell, bring a neck pillow, earplugs and an eye mask so the screaming kids don't bother you either.

Random other tip, if you have an airline credit card, they usually give you priority boarding (so you can actually put your suitcase in the overhead), AND free luggage checking (saves you paying). Now days since no one checks luggage, your luggage actually comes out extremely fast.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Secret to flying and enjoying.it no matter what:

Step one: recline your seat

Step two: get drunk. If you don't drink, eat a cannabis-laden caramel prior approx 2 hours prior to takeoff (at the security.check or baggage.check)

Step three: blast some sweet, sweet tunes on your baby-cancelling headphones.

Step four: you are an airplane superhero and everyone loves you.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Pretty sure you need to do step two before step one.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Pretty sure you need to do step two before step one.

Well the numbers.don't really matter much as.long as.you're thorough and committed to being an an awesome traveller.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I just think it's best to already be drunk when you board.

[Hans Gruber]

Stop hating on the babies and the parents who have to bring them. Seriously; what sort of selfish asshat complains about a crying baby on a plane?

Get a damn pair of headphones and get over it.

People who dislike wailing noises and children in general.

I have an extrme dislike of flying and like to sleep through the entire flight if I can, screaming kids arn't helpful in that regard, thankfully valium and business class are.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Larry,

Anytime I drink an alcoholic beverage on a plane I get a raging headache.

[sologdin]

babies on planes. heh. between the engine, wind, and air pressure, isn't it basically impossible to hear anything anyway?

[Shryke]

I never knew people thought reclining was something some people thought you shouldn't do. I see most people recline on flights and no one ever complains.

I'd get up and remove the plastic crap from the back of my seat if someone pulled this knee defender shit on me.

[Isis]

I'm totally baffled by why people would complain to air stewards about another passenger's baby crying. What do they expect as a response? That the steward will go and politely ask the baby to stop crying? Or that the infant will be removed from its parent and stored in the hold for the remainder of the flight?

Seriously, how stupid are these people?

[Little Miss Sunshine]

As a former flight attendant, I was not troubled at all by crying babies who are uncomfortable due to the flight (seriously, if it's a pain for adult ears, imagine what's like for a baby!).

On the other hand, I did have a huge problem with parents who refuse to control their children to the expense of safety regulations - I still remember a flight to a holiday destination where a huge family was refusing the fasten one of the kid's seat belt for take-off and landing because "she cries and screams if we do so, can't you see that, you idiots?!" and then was passing her around (i.e. above rows) during taxiing - during which, no matter what people think, a million things can go wrong and passengers are still required to have their seat belts fastened!

I would like also to point out that, although (I repeat) I am not bothered by crying babies that are uncomfortable during the flight, not everyone can resort to earphones due to health issues (e.g. tinnitus). Ear plugs are another matter, though :)

(EFG)