Daily Facts of Ice and Fire

[Lord Varys]

Aegon started the war, that much is clear. He had reason to declare war on Argilac, but he also manipulated him into being offended by offering Orys' hand to Argella, and wanted to have a pretext to declare war.

The other kingdoms had not wronged him at all, as far as we know.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Considering it, it was a bit strange. We have an older man, who's strength is failing, who is aging, and he sees his own kingdom in danger, because he becomes less capable of defending it, while his enemy grows stronger. He knows of this man, who owns a huge dragon, and offers his daughter in marriage to this man, who already has not one, but two wives. Obviously, what he thought to win here, was a good match for his daughter, and a guarantee that there would be someone left to help his daughter defend his kingdom when he died.

But Aegon declined. That's not the worst thing. That's part of the gamble that is making an offer. Someone can say yes, but they can also say no.

Instead of wanting nothing to do with Argilac, Aegon offers Orys to Argella in marriage. Aegon's rumoured brother (and brothers, generally, have reason to stick together). So Aegon offers in marriage his close friend, and rumoured brother, and Argilac says no.

That isn't the worst part either. What's bad about the way Argilac says no, is that he cuts off the hands of the envoys.. Which Aegon has every right to see as an attack.

So when did Argilac ever think it was a good idea to insult a man who's family owns three huge dragons, where you own an army of men who are very much capable of burning to death quickly?

Argilac wasn't in a good position to argue. He wanted a buffer between the Stormlands, and the Riverlands, and Aegon offered him a way. Argilac would have gotten what he wanted (a husband for his daughter, protection of his Kingdom). But Aegon's offers, despite fulfilling Argilac's needs, were not good enough in Argilac's eyes. That's what was happening.

[RumHam]

But that isn't a guarantee. Who is this Orys? Is he blood kin to Aegon? What loyalty does Aegon owe him? Argilac would be much better looking for another Prince, even if its a second or third son knowing that their father or brother would be obligated to help. The claim over the Crownlands is no bad thing, you have the army of the Stormlands behind Argella along with what you can muster to kick the Hoares out.

My understanding is that the Storm King proposed an alliance sealed with marriage, and all Aegon changed in his counter-proposal was who would be doing the marrying.

Edit: He also asked for more land.

[Lord Varys]

Argilac seems not so much as 'the Arrogant but 'the Stormy'. A man who is easily provoked, and easy to answer (imagined) insult with an insult of his own. Aegon seemed to have counted on that. But there cannot be any doubt that Aegon used the whole thing just as a pretext. He would have attacked anyway.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Argilac seems not so much as 'the Argilac' but 'the Stormy'. A man who is easily provoked, and easy to answer (imagined) insult with an insult of his own. Aegon seemed to have counted on that. But there cannot be any doubt that Aegon used the whole thing just as a pretext. He would have attacked anyway.

Exactly. Obviously Argilac was hot headed and foolish, but Aegon wasn't giving him a counter offer to be nice. We know he had been planning his attack on Westeros for several years prior to the invasion. It's possible he was anticipating Argilac's reaction so that he'd use it as a justification for his entire conquest.

[Veltigar]

The more apt comparison is to biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and each has been against the international norm since World War I. So yeah, that's a long way of saying Aegon's actions aren't really that defensible, or at least there's no way of not calling him a warlord.

Please, that comparison of dragons to nukes should really be stopped. If dragons are the equivalent to anything in our real world, than it's fighter aircraft. They share a lot more advantages and disadvantages with each other than dragons and nukes.

[King Aegon The Conqueror]

Please, that comparison of dragons to nukes should really be stopped. If dragons are the equivalent to anything in our real world, than it's fighter aircraft. They share a lot more advantages and disadvantages with each other than dragons and nukes.

I feel you but when GRRM himself calls the dragons are the ASOIAF's equivalent of nuclear deterrents then you as a reader we must all accept it. Arguing against the other is not going to get any of us anywhere sadly

[Veltigar]

I feel you but when GRRM himself calls the dragons are the ASOIAF's equivalent of nuclear deterrents then you as a reader we must all accept it. Arguing against the other is not going to get any of us anywhere sadly

I take it you have never heard of 'La mort de l'auteur' then?

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Aegon started the war, that much is clear. He had reason to declare war on Argilac, but he also manipulated him into being offended by offering Orys' hand to Argella, and wanted to have a pretext to declare war.

The other kingdoms had not wronged him at all, as far as we know.

Exactly, the provocation of a provocation. What did House Gardner do, send the feet? Did he end up with the material for a frankenstein envoy? Why blame Argilac for doing exactly as Aegon expected when he sent the reply? The Targs were bad, even the glorious Visenya who made bad look good. They wanted, they had means, they massacred to get it.

[Dofs]

Please, that comparison of dragons to nukes should really be stopped. If dragons are the equivalent to anything in our real world, than it's fighter aircraft. They share a lot more advantages and disadvantages with each other than dragons and nukes.

The point is how much damage can a dragon inflict on his enemies. You can't compare a dragon with a fighter aircraft today because a dragon is much, much more dangerous to people who can fight only with swords and bows than an aircraft today to today's army. If you have a nuke today, you pretty much win. If you have a dragon in a medieval time, you also pretty much win.

[Veltigar]

The point is how much damage can a dragon inflict on his enemies. You can't compare a dragon with a fighter aircraft today because a dragon is much, much more dangerous to people who can fight only with swords and bows than an aircraft today to today's army. If you have a nuke today, you pretty much win. If you have a dragon in a medieval time, you also pretty much win.

Lol, have you been following the conflicts in the Middle-East? Tell me, how many American plains did IS shoot out of the sky? How many of Assads plains did the FSA manage to take down? The answer is close to zero. Unless your army has anti-aircraft set up, you can't hope to take those damn jets down. Just like on Planetos you need Scorpions to do real damage to dragons or, if you're lucky, a great archer might take one out.

And nukes don't give you immediate victory. America has nukes, but that isn't stopping IS and others to attack their interests. Russia has nukes and they are currently beating the Ukranians, but they do that by using conventional weaponry. Nukes are a pretty pis poor weapons, to messy, plus you can't really do anything with the land you bomb. Aegon's dragon torched the place, but they don't make areas uninhabitable, the environment quickly restores itself (hell, people have been living in Harrenhal for 300 years after the fire melted its stones).

[RumHam]

The point is how much damage can a dragon inflict on his enemies. You can't compare a dragon with a fighter aircraft today because a dragon is much, much more dangerous to people who can fight only with swords and bows than an aircraft today to today's army. If you have a nuke today, you pretty much win. If you have a dragon in a medieval time, you also pretty much win.

Tell that to Rhaenys and Meraxes...

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Ok well then what's the deal with the name Baratheon, is it the Valyrian word for bastard, or is he simply from a minor Valyrian house ala Qoherys, Velaryon and Celtigar?

[RumHam]

Ok well then what's the deal with the name Baratheon, is it the Valyrian word for bastard

This can't be the case, as it was only rumored that he was a bastard. Also can you imagine any legitimized bastard in Westeros taking the last name "Bastard?"

[Dofs]

Lol, have you been following the conflicts in the Middle-East? Tell me, how many American plains did IS shoot out of the sky? How many of Assads plains did the FSA manage to take down? The answer is close to zero. Unless your army has anti-aircraft set up, you can't hope to take those damn jets down. Just like on Planetos you need Scorpions to do real damage to dragons or, if you're lucky, a great archer might take one out.

And nukes don't give you immediate victory. America has nukes, but that isn't stopping IS and others to attack their interests. Russia has nukes and they are currently beating the Ukranians, but they do that by using conventional weaponry. Nukes are a pretty pis poor weapons, to messy, plus you can't really do anything with the land you bomb. Aegon's dragon torched the place, but they don't make areas uninhabitable, the environment quickly restores itself (hell, people have been living in Harrenhal for 300 years after the fire melted its stones).

Your point about US and Russia is funny. If Aegon didn't use the dragons as US and Russia don't use their nukes, he would have conquered nothing. And if nukes make the areas where they are used uninhabitable, what are millions of people doing now in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Silly me, so minor minor Valyrian family name then.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Silly me, so minor minor Valyrian family name then.

It's one of the small things I look forward to finding out in the world book.

[Moondancer]

Legend has it that Rodrik Stark won Bear Island back from the ironborn in a wrestling match #FactsofIceandFire

[Free Northman Reborn]

Moondancer.

Why the question mark?

Bear Island was originally ruled by the Stark vassals, House Woodfoot. Then at some point in fairly recent times - likely in the last 1000 years (which is recent in the North's context), the Ironborn conquered it. This might even have happened after Brandon the Burner destroyed the Stark's naval strength, thus leaving their Sunset Sea holdings vulnerable to the Ironborn.

More recently, Rodrik Stark won it back in the wrestling match, and gave it to House Mormont.

EDIT

My rough guestimate for the chronology of the above would be:

The Woodfoots rule Bear Island since the early days of the North. At some point - long before the Andals arrive - they are conquered by House Stark and incorporated into the Kingdom of the North.

Around 700 years ago King Brandon the Burner burns his ships, leaving the North's Sunset Sea holdings vulnerable.

Shortly thereafter House Hoare captures the Iron Isles from House Woodfoot.

Around 500 years ago, King Rodrik Stark wins the island back in a wrestling match, and gives it to the Mormonts. This is also the time the Mormonts come into possession of the Valyrian steel sword Longclaw, signifying that this may coincide with some great achievement or honor that was bestowed upon them.

[Moondancer]

I didn't know about house Woodfoot! :) Thanks!