The Expanse (spoilers for books 1–4)

[Larry of the Lawn]

Are the worth reading, I though leviathan took forever to pick up its pace only when we got to Eros did it get good. Is book 2 a slow burn like this or is it firing in all cylinders from the get go?

I think they're very much worth reading, but ymmv. Personally I enjoyed all four have them, although I had a couple of issues with the third book that bothered me the first time through, but I felt were markedly improved on a reread.

Also you might be interested in checking out the short fiction that's been released between the books. Check Abraham's website for the list of them, there's also Drive, which takes place in the same universe but a few generations before the events of Leviathan. I think it's only available in a collection, forget the name but it has some other good stories in it too.

[Happy Ent]

Next book is imminent. I don’t have the energy to re-read the last book, but could somebody provide a summary of the major plot? I’ll have a go, probably incorrectly remembered, just so show what I’m looking for:

Eons ago, the advanced space-faring civilisation P (for “Protomolecule”) dominated hundreds(?) of worlds, linked by worm-hole like portals all connected via a central hub. This central hub is known as “the slow zone” to the in-universe humans.

Hundreds of millions years ago (?), P sent a probe into the system around Sol. The probe contained the protomolecule, a piece of advanced technology. It is plausible that the purpose of this probe was to land on Earth and exploit whatever matter it found there to build another portal, thereby linking Sol to the rest of P civilisation. We, as readers, have no information about whether or not the intentions of P were hostile, or if such a moral valuation even makes sense.

At some time (?) a conflict erupted between P and some other civilisation (E, the Enemy). This led to the end of P (?). (Did the war also end E?) It had some consequences for the central hub that I have forgotten. Somebody says something about something being scared, but I forget the details. (Maybe Holden when he is inside the sphere in the centre of the hub?)

Another world that was part of P is the planet called Ilus(?) by some in-universe humans. P contains planetary defence mechanisms (set up by P?) in order to ?. It also contains remnants of E technology, probably dating from the time of their conflict. Both technologies are dormant (?) at the time humanity makes planetfall. P technology wakes up (as a defence mechanism against the humans?). E technology also plays a role, see first few posts in this thread. Plausible hypothesis: the Millerconstruct purposefully activates E technology to defeat the P technology, so that humanity can live on the planet.

[Rhom]

I'd say that's a reasonable approximation.

[red snow]

thanks for the summary. For some reason I failed to pick up on the enemy tech on ilus.

I guess the enemy doesn't necessarily have to be a different species but the implication was that it apparently destroyed the proto-molecule empire and may still be out there.

While I'm impressed by the ever increasing scale of the books I have to say my heart lies more in the human side of the story. I hope they maintain the focus on this moving on and don't get swept away in an epic battle with god-like beings.

[Larry of the Lawn]

thanks for the summary. For some reason I failed to pick up on the enemy tech on ilus.

I guess the enemy doesn't necessarily have to be a different species but the implication was that it apparently destroyed the proto-molecule empire and may still be out there.

While I'm impressed by the ever increasing scale of the books I have to say my heart lies more in the human side of the story. I hope they maintain the focus on this moving on and don't get swept away in an epic battle with god-like beings.

I feel pretty good about the focus staying on the human part. In part 4 we see humans continuing to kill each other over resources that are likely as good as unlimited. Then there's the last part where Avarsarala's musing that the Martian's no longer need all those nukes, but someone's still going to want them..

[HairBearHero]

Did anybody else get a Halo vibe from the last book? Long dead, awe-inspiringly advanced race blowing up entire star systems to prevent the spread of an empire-destroying enemy?

[red snow]

I feel pretty good about the focus staying on the human part. In part 4 we see humans continuing to kill each other over resources that are likely as good as unlimited. Then there's the last part where Avarsarala's musing that the Martian's no longer need all those nukes, but someone's still going to want them..

And the whole thing about Mars seems to be keeping the focus on humanity too. The blurb for book 5 suggests we'll see the solar system fall-out from all this too as I guess Belters don't necessarily have to scrape by in zero g anymore either. They could even find planets with g that allows them to live there.

It's more that the story could spiral out. It may be better if the other races are all dead. Automated systems are ok in terms of slow zones and stuff. If the authors keep the epic stuff as catalysts for human drama/society I'm happy.

[Larry of the Lawn]

And the whole thing about Mars seems to be keeping the focus on humanity too. The blurb for book 5 suggests we'll see the solar system fall-out from all this too as I guess Belters don't necessarily have to scrape by in zero g anymore either. They could even find planets with g that allows them to live there.

It's more that the story could spiral out. It may be better if the other races are all dead. Automated systems are ok in terms of slow zones and stuff. If the authors keep the epic stuff as catalysts for human drama/society I'm happy.

Very much agree, and I hope that's the case. Or at least if the only life that's encountered is like the invasive eye-algae type.

[HairBearHero]

And the whole thing about Mars seems to be keeping the focus on humanity too. The blurb for book 5 suggests we'll see the solar system fall-out from all this too as I guess Belters don't necessarily have to scrape by in zero g anymore either. They could even find planets with g that allows them to live there.

It's more that the story could spiral out. It may be better if the other races are all dead. Automated systems are ok in terms of slow zones and stuff. If the authors keep the epic stuff as catalysts for human drama/society I'm happy.

My guess would be that you'll see colossal intra-societal scraps as well, similar to those shown in (I think) Gods of Risk - "we've spent generations terraforming/surviving in zero G/leading a massively-regulated existence, and you QUITTERS just want to go exploring?"

[Spaßvogel]

I've actually decided to fill in the next couple weeks with a re-read of the series. Problem is now that I've burned through the first two books really quickly. I'm curious about the hints that the authors have dropped in various interviews about plot seeds planted in all four books paying off in book 5. There's a podcast on YouTube also where one of the guys goes into depth about why the titles were chosen. It was a fascinating discussion actually.

I would also agree with everyone about Bobbie's POVs. She's a great character, one of the deepest of the entire cast, and I looked forward to her voice a lot in book 2. I also appreciated her short-story. (As others have mentioned, they're worth the $2-$3 that they cost).

Are there any dangling threads from the four books that come to mind?

First one I thought of was the protomolecule sample that Fred still has, but I saw it mentioned in one of the book summaries. Wonder what else there is.

[red snow]

My guess would be that you'll see colossal intra-societal scraps as well, similar to those shown in (I think) Gods of Risk - "we've spent generations terraforming/surviving in zero G/leading a massively-regulated existence, and you QUITTERS just want to go exploring?"

Yeah, I can see the militant side of the belter independence group possibly turning on its own if they go searching solid ground. The Mars lot will essentially be a look at how the effect is when decades/centuries have been put into living on an inhospitable planet. I'm curious as to how it affects earth. On one hand I can see the impact being the least considering people have been leaving Earth from the very start. While leaving for another planet is easier, there's still risk involved in getting there so I can imagine most will stay where they are with the usual amount of emmigration. Unless Ty/Daniel throws a spanner into Earth's workings. Otherwise it's more of a political power play in terms of a land grab for Earth.

It feels like they have an entire book there and I think that's what a lot of Nemesis games will touch on from the blurb.

I also realised that when selling the series to TV they probably had to outline things. I guess "turning into an epic galaxy spanning war with extraterrestrial gods" may not have been a selling point. Then again Babylon 5 was able to pull it off 20 years ago so it's really a matter of how those things unfold in terms of budget/effects.

[The Drunkard]

Anyone have any ideas about the title? I only know of the movie, but all the others have had some sort of mythological or historical meaning.

Did anybody else get a Halo vibe from the last book? Long dead, awe-inspiringly advanced race blowing up entire star systems to prevent the spread of an empire-destroying enemy?

Initially I felt the protomolecule was quite similar to the Flood. Zombie-like, a desire to accumulate biomass, some sort of hivemind/growing intelligence thing going on (I half thought that some kind of Gravemind thing would emerge from Venus).

[HairBearHero]

Anyone have any ideas about the title? I only know of the movie, but all the others have had some sort of mythological or historical meaning.

Nemesis was a Greek goddess who dealt out retribution to those who slighted the pantheon.

I'm curious as to how it affects earth. On one hand I can see the impact being the least considering people have been leaving Earth from the very start. While leaving for another planet is easier, there's still risk involved in getting there so I can imagine most will stay where they are with the usual amount of emmigration.

I'd imagine it would actually lead to a massive wave of emigration - previously the only options were to go to inhospitable, militarised Mars or the even worse outer planets/Belt. Suddenly you've got Earth-like planets without all the restrictions - will be interesting to see who ends up going though.

[Happy Ent]

Nemesis and Leviathan should be the concepts most immediate to even a readership not schooled in the classics, since both words appear in the modern English vernacular. I don’t believe that the authors want us to think of Hobbes in relation to Leviathan—it’s the biblical sea monster instead.

Caliban is the monster from Shakespeare’s Tempest, often used as a stand-in for modern AI: The servant who cannot be controlled by its masters. Abaddon I had to look up; a bottomless pit and realm of destruction (much like Hell) in the Old Testament.

[unJon]

Apparently Nemesis and Roman Games are connected: https://books.google.com/books?id=-innYh2yO48C&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=nemesis+games&source=bl&ots=KxXtAaIwpy&sig=8WcAkawmKUtzgVeh6edTs6Ri9uw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KmdcVY7fGo-gyQTipYE4&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=nemesis%20games&f=false

Sorry don't know how to make a pretty link on iPhone.

[HairBearHero]

Nemesis and Leviathan should be the concepts most immediate to even a readership not schooled in the classics, since both words appear in the modern English vernacular. I don’t believe that the authors want us to think of Hobbes in relation to Leviathan—it’s the biblical sea monster instead.

Caliban is the monster from Shakespeare’s Tempest, often used as a stand-in for modern AI: The servant who cannot be controlled by its masters. Abaddon I had to look up; a bottomless pit and realm of destruction (much like Hell) in the Old Testament.

To round out the set, Cibola was a mythological city of gold, similar to El Dorado.

[williamjm]

thanks for the summary. For some reason I failed to pick up on the enemy tech on ilus.

If I remember correctly the 'enemy' technology is encountered near the end of the book when Elvi and PseudoMiller are exploring the industrial complex and find something that PsuedoMiller can't even perceive is there but Elvi can see.

[Darth Richard II]

Did anybody else get a Halo vibe from the last book? Long dead, awe-inspiringly advanced race blowing up entire star systems to prevent the spread of an empire-destroying enemy?

If you mean Revelation Space/Gateway vibe, then, yes. ;)

[RedEyedGhost]

What does nemesis mean? Bricktop knows.

If I remember correctly the 'enemy' technology is encountered near the end of the book when Elvi and PseudoMiller are exploring the industrial complex and find something that PsuedoMiller can't even perceive is there but Elvi can see.

Exactly.

[Spaßvogel]

Just reached book 3 in my re-read. During my initial reading of the series, this book took me the longest to finish, I'm curious to see how it will go now. I know you're supposed to dislike the "Melba" character, but it really made those POVs a slog to get through. She gets away with so much stuff that it strains credulity at times. When her first POV popped up in the book, I actually considered skimming it or skipping it.