LordManderlyAsDragonRider Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I never noticed that Benjen had to have joined the Night's Watch sometime after Mance deserted, around late 280s, early 290s. Mance Rayder came to Winterfell when Jon and Robb were still young boys during the tenure of LC Qorgyle who died in 288AC... since Jon remembers the visit and was old enough to play a prank, it probably happened close to 288 AC -- making Jon and Robb around 5 years old when Mance visited. Benjen never saw Mance...and Mance never saw Benjen. Mance explicitly says that one of his purpose for traveling to Winterfell the second time around was to get a measure of Benjen Stark... Where was Benjen during Mance's first visit? and why did he join the watch so late? It's been assumed that he joined after Robert's Rebellion, out of guilt or because Ned had an heir with Robb.... but, why the delay? Did he join after or before the Greyjoy rebellion?...Did he only join after Bran's birth? ...this would imply that Jon and Robb probably knew Benjen quite a bit better than expected...than I expected, either way...I have always wondered about this too!It seems to me that the Stark children all know Benjen fairly well. Jon knew him in sight and they seem very comfortable around him. So Benjen must have been a regular visitor at Winterfell, which doesn't add up to the " a man of the Night's Watch" have no family motto...maybe they let Benjen have a close tie with the Starks because they are such strong allies of the Night's Watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random girl from westeros Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I have always wondered about this too!It seems to me that the Stark children all know Benjen fairly well. Jon knew him in sight and they seem very comfortable around him. So Benjen must have been a regular visitor at Winterfell, which doesn't add up to the " a man of the Night's Watch" have no family motto...maybe they let Benjen have a close tie with the Starks because they are such strong allies of the Night's Watch?Perhaps Benjen was the connection between the Starks and the Night Watch, maybe Lord Commander Mormont understood that who better to convince or to keep good relationship with the Stark than another Stark, we all know that the NW depends a lot on high lords of the realm.I think Jon mentions that the NW always buys or ask for supplies to other regions, Benjen, as a educated highborn could would serve as a representative of the NW for negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Benjen joined months after Ned returned from Roberts Rebellion, so some time in 284 AC. That's no assumption, GRRM has said it is so. Mance left the NW much later , as Jon can remember him.Why Benjen didn't know him... Mance lived at Shadow Tower, IIRC. Benjen at CB. That's why they never met. And when the LC came to visit Winterfell, Mancr apparently came from Shadow Tower to travel with him (and I doubt he was the only one), while Benjen doesn't seem to have been allowed to travel with the LC thanks, must have missed that SSM... still, a bit strange that Jon be so 'intimate' with Benjen, no? It's like they know each other quite well...but maybe, they don't and 14 year old Jon just thought he knew Benjen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 thanks, must have missed that SSM... still, a bit strange that Jon be so 'intimate' with Benjen, no? It's like they know each other quite well...but maybe, they don't and 14 year old Jon just thought he knew Benjen.... I definitely had the experience, as a kid, of idolizing older relatives I didn't see that often. Possibly it was even fed by not seeing them that often. I just thought they were so cool and was practically a barnacle stuck to their leg when I did see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I am still a believer that Benjen joined the NW for a very specific reason. He did something or knew about something and didn't tell. Maybe he knew Lyanna ran away willingly and wasn't kidnapped. Could have prevented a war by telling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 "Lord Slynt," Tyrion called out, "I believe you know Ser Jacelyn Bywater, our new Commander of the City Watch.""We have a litter waiting for you, my lord," Ser Jacelyn told Slynt. "The docks are dark and distant, and the streets are not safe by night. Men."As the gold cloaks ushered out their onetime commander, Tyrion called Ser Jacelyn to his side and handed him a roll of parchment. "It's a long voyage, and Lord Slynt will want for company. See that these six join him on the Summer's Dream."Bywater glanced over the names and smiled. "As you will.""There's one," Tyrion said quietly. "Deem. Tell the captain it would not be taken amiss if that one should happen to be swept overboard before they reach Eastwatch." [...] "Can we keep them on those oars for a few years, see how they fancy it?" He smiled. "No, my sister would be distraught to lose such treasured guests. Inform Ser Jacelyn. Seize the man they bribed and explain what an honor it is to serve as a brother of the Night's Watch. And have men posted around the Moonrunner, in case the Redwynes find a second guard short of coin." CoK, chapter 8, Tyrion. Where did the men Tyrion send along with Slynt end up? Who are they? And what about the guard the Redwyne twins bribed? How many Lannister loyalists did Tyrion send to the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I definitely had the experience, as a kid, of idolizing older relatives I didn't see that often. Possibly it was even fed by not seeing them that often. I just thought they were so cool and was practically a barnacle stuck to their leg when I did see them. Yes, that's true... I am still a believer that Benjen joined the NW for a very specific reason. He did something or knew about something and didn't tell. Maybe he knew Lyanna ran away willingly and wasn't kidnapped. Could have prevented a war by telling? Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell. Maybe Rhaegar did send a message to Winterfell, not knowing that Rickard wasn't at Winterfell, but riding south... So Benjen might have received the message instead...he probably couldn't have reached Brandon in time, but that wouldn't have stopped him from feeling guilty...And after Rickard's and Brandon's murder war was inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 thanks, must have missed that SSM... still, a bit strange that Jon be so 'intimate' with Benjen, no? It's like they know each other quite well...but maybe, they don't and 14 year old Jon just thought he knew Benjen.... Well, Benjen seems to have been allowed to visit Winterfell, so perhaps it was just through those visits... We know the Stark children never went to the Wall. Jon isn't allowed to visit his family when he has been at the Wall shortly, but I got the feeling that that was because he was a recent recruit... Had Jeor remained LC for years after, Jon most likely would have been allowed to visit. Mormont frowned through his thick grey beard. “Snow? Oh, the Stark bastard. I think not. The young ones need to forget the lives they left behind them, the brothers and mothers and all that. A visit home would only stir up feelings best left alone. I am still a believer that Benjen joined the NW for a very specific reason. He did something or knew about something and didn't tell. Maybe he knew Lyanna ran away willingly and wasn't kidnapped. Could have prevented a war by telling? My personal theory? Benjen was send a message from Lyanna explaining how she wasn't kidnapped, but Brandon and Rickard were already on their way to Riverrun, so Benjen send the message to them, but the message did not reach in time to prevent Brandon from rushing south, and thus could not prevent Rickard from going to KL, which got both men killed. Benjen couldn't deal with that, nor with all the consequences it had (a war, Lyanna dying), so he left to do something he seems to have had on his mind anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 My personal theory? Benjen was send a message from Lyanna explaining how she wasn't kidnapped, but Brandon and Rickard were already on their way to Riverrun, so Benjen send the message to them, but the message did not reach in time to prevent Brandon from rushing south, and thus could not prevent Rickard from going to KL, which got both men killed. Benjen couldn't deal with that, nor with all the consequences it had (a war, Lyanna dying), so he left to do something he seems to have had on his mind anyway. Nice one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuvuuia Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Clayton Suggs, it rhymes with thugs, and character-wise he is a thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mee aar dun wee wee Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 “It was just a lie,” he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. “I can’t fly. I can’t even run.” “Crows are all liars,” Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. “I know a story about a crow.”Is Nan psychic or has bran told her about his coma dream?Eta from bran 4 in game of thrones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Darwin Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I always assumed he told her about his dream. The two of them are stuck together in a room, it seems pretty logical Bran would tell her about his dreams to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 He told Luwin, so surely he told Old Nan. From Game 53 : "You are a surpassing clever boy when you work at it, Bran. Have you ever thought that you might wear a maester's chain? There is no limit to what you might learn." "I want to learn magic," Bran told him. "The crow promised that I would fly." Maester Luwin sighed. "I can teach you history, healing, herblore. I can teach you the speech of ravens, and how to build a castle, and the way a sailor steers his ship by the stars. I can teach you to measure the days and mark the seasons, and at the Citadel in Oldtown they can teach you a thousand things more. But, Bran, no man can teach you magic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 thanks, must have missed that SSM... still, a bit strange that Jon be so 'intimate' with Benjen, no? It's like they know each other quite well...but maybe, they don't and 14 year old Jon just thought he knew Benjen....I have always felt that Benjen was around for Jon and Robb's early childhood before he made his decision to leave for the wall. I just assumed he felt bad for his nephew Jon and kept him close knowing the truth of his parentage the last piece of his sister. I also agree that he was a regular envoy of the Wall to trade and collect supplies especially where he was a volunteer and not a criminal, this is probably why Mance comes south he was no criminal either I doubt that guys sent to the Wall as punishment are allowed to come south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 It was just a lie, he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. I cant fly. I cant even run. Crows are all liars, Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. I know a story about a crow.Is Nan psychic or has bran told her about his coma dream?Eta from bran 4 in game of thronesOh my. That's curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Maid Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I completely love this thread. I'm going to start a re-reading soon, so I'm sure I will find more things I didn't notice before. I love how Martin's books have so many details that the first time you read them you don't give them enough importance and after reading the next books (and a re-reading) you just realize how important those details were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hello all, new to the boards. This is interesting, because I think the whole quotation has more going on than originally appears. First, what's humorous is it seems that although Dolorous Edd was supposed to be Iron Emmett's "second in command", he is supplanted by Black Maris, either willingly or unwillingly. That's how I originally interpreted that line. But I think the whole "serving under him" might be a double entendre, too.Also, Edd refers to a woman "Nettles" and her joke about his looking like a mule...this sounds very flirtatious, to me. I took it to mean that Edd, at least, has found a girlfriend, but it's possible that Iron Emmett and Black Maris are together, too. Pretty ironic that for thousands of years the Night's Watch has disallowed females joining, but as soon as Jon allows them in, the men who end up working with them seem to be MUCH happier :-) For whoever wondered whether heart trees in various godswood eventually took on the look of their lords...it sure seemed that way, but the only other reference to a "face" is the one at Storm's End, which was said to look stern and sort of angry...don't have the reference with me, but I was surprised it wasn't a mirthful look, considering how the Baratheons are always described as lusty, laughing men. Maybe it comes from the Durrandons.Are u sure that Nettles isn't referring to her and her sisters looking like Edd ? He says I swear I never knew there mother I took it as they thought they were his daughters or some type of kin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Creeping Knight Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The rumours of a "large wolf" roaming the Riverlands was a contrast to Arya who is a "little wolf" roaming the Riverlands at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The rumours of a "large wolf" roaming the Riverlands was a contrast to Arya who is a "little wolf" roaming the Riverlands at the time. And that large wolf would be Nymeria :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Creeping Knight Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 And that large wolf would be Nymeria :)Yeah thats what I was driving at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.