DaveSumm Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I like Routh, that's about the only thing that interests me about the spin off. But it is hard to picture how you do something interesting with that suit for 20+ episodes when literally any scene with Iron Man looks better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Flow Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yeah.... My opinion seems to be the reverse of most people's. I thought season 1 was the best and I liked it when the show was grounded and dark. Ollie killed people which provided high stakes. They could have maybe had him slow his roll a little bit so that when he killed it had impact. This whole, "I won't kill" stuff is BS... especially when Diggle goes to fight a bunch of unarmed thugs with an assault rifle. The atom suit looks stupid. The sad thing is, I heard the costume designer on a podcast and I was afraid he might dislocate his shoulder while patting himself on the back.Oh well... I'm a DC comics fan but Marvel has been absolutely running Digital Media (with the exception of cartoons.) I can't wait for the HfH/Defenders stuff to start dropping on Netflix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I actually thought the best string of Arrow episodes was the start of season 2. I thought things went downhill once the show returned from its midseason break. I don't mind any of the effects on either Arrow or Flash. I don't think they're overtly bad, and I'm not going to go as far as saying they look great. I just think they serve their purpose. And, IMO, the writing isn't suffering because of the effects budget. Pads and pens cost next to nothing. Movies are always going to look better, but I think the attempt should still be there when it comes to stretching what your show's boundaries are. Could Arrow be a great show, just staying in a very grounded and practical lane? Sure. But, let's be honest. Who doesn't want to see the bigger guns on television at some point? Should we not put Superman on TV again because the effects would never look as good as they do on the big screen? I think it's a dangerous mentality. It's like saying you never want to eat pasta again because you went to Italy and know nothing will ever live up to the authentic stuff. You can have a good time going to Walt Disney World. You can have just as good of a time going to the local park down the street. It's all about tempering expectations. Some might call it settling for less, I call it not setting yourself up for constant disappointment and enjoying different things in different contexts. Atom being so derivative of Iron Man doesn't bother me. Superheroes are ultimately all derivative. Everyone has their own version of another company's hero. Christ, we talk about how derivative Ollie is of Batman all the time, and we're talking about two characters owned by the same company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I actually thought the best string of Arrow episodes was the start of season 2. I thought things went downhill once the show returned from its midseason break. I would mostly agree with that. The best string of Arrow episodes started about halfway through Season 1 and ended somewhere in the middle of Season 2. Tight, efficient plotting and some great fight sequences can make up for some cringey writing and questionable acting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Atom being so derivative of Iron Man doesn't bother me. Superheroes are ultimately all derivative. Everyone has their own version of another company's hero. Christ, we talk about how derivative Ollie is of Batman all the time, and we're talking about two characters owned by the same company. I'd say Batman and Arrow were always pretty derivative of the rich man non powered vigilante that's everywhere. The difference in the show is that Arrow also takes a lot of Batman's supporting cast. In the case of Atom we are talking about a character who has nothing in common with Iron Man and making him appear to be Iron Man. Blue Beetle at a stretch could have been Iron Man (or maybe better Steel, Rocket Red or Lex Luthor). It just seems a rather pointless use of a character. It would be like going to see Ant-man later in the year and discovering he can shoot laser beams out of his eyes or is ruler of Atlantis. Or discovering Ra's al ghul is actually a shape changing god of mischief (that's why he lives so long) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I'd say Batman and Arrow were always pretty derivative of the rich man non powered vigilante that's everywhere. The difference in the show is that Arrow also takes a lot of Batman's supporting cast. In the case of Atom we are talking about a character who has nothing in common with Iron Man and making him appear to be Iron Man. Blue Beetle at a stretch could have been Iron Man (or maybe better Steel, Rocket Red or Lex Luthor). It just seems a rather pointless use of a character. It would be like going to see Ant-man later in the year and discovering he can shoot laser beams out of his eyes or is ruler of Atlantis. Or discovering Ra's al ghul is actually a shape changing god of mischief (that's why he lives so long) I get it, but either way, people would be saying Beetle is the knockoff Iron Man. Ultimately, it seems like people want the derivative hero which makes the most sense, but that still doesn't negate the fact that we'd be getting DC's version of Iron Man in a show. Why they chose to use Atom over BB is a different argument. As he's been presented, the Atom isn't so totally different -- his suit still relies on the white dwarf star. Ultimately, the comparison to the changes in power set you used doesn't really apply, IMO, as I feel it's an overstatement. Atom still requires external means to use his abilities, and something tells me he'll eventually shrink before all is said and done. I think the producers ultimately wanted to create additional visual interest to the character by making his powers result from an entire suit, as opposed to a belt. There's nothing to say he can't program his suit in the future to shrink. As Johns is the creative head of DC and also overseeing the multimedia versions of the characters, I imagine the comic version of Atom will be altered to be more like the show, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I get it, but either way, people would be saying Beetle is the knockoff Iron Man. Ultimately, it seems like people want the derivative hero which makes the most sense, but that still doesn't negate the fact that we'd be getting DC's version of Iron Man in a show. Why they chose to use Atom over BB is a different argument. As he's been presented, the Atom isn't so totally different -- his suit still relies on the white dwarf star. Ultimately, the comparison to the changes in power set you used doesn't really apply, IMO, as I feel it's an overstatement. Atom still requires external means to use his abilities, and something tells me he'll eventually shrink before all is said and done. I think the producers ultimately wanted to create additional visual interest to the character by making his powers result from an entire suit, as opposed to a belt. There's nothing to say he can't program his suit in the future to shrink. As Johns is the creative head of DC and also overseeing the multimedia versions of the characters, I imagine the comic version of Atom will be altered to be more like the show, anyway. If he shrinks it won't be so bad. Otherwise having the Atom as Iron Man and claiming it's not that different seems more of a stretch than my examples. The Flash got struck by lighting so it's ok for him to be the Green Lantern? I don't think so. Arrow was stuck on an island so we'll have him fight with guns is more in the ballpark of an update but would still have us asking "why call him Arrow". They have characters they could make into Iron Man - use them. I may wind up enjoying this version of the Atom but it still irks me when they needlessly use characters and then ditch the thing that makes that character, that character in terms of powers. Changing the Atom comic into Iron Man would just be a convenient retcon and would result in the loss of an interesting (if not successful) character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If he shrinks it won't be so bad. Otherwise having the Atom as Iron Man and claiming it's not that different seems more of a stretch than my examples. The Flash got struck by lighting so it's ok for him to be the Green Lantern? I don't think so. Arrow was stuck on an island so we'll have him fight with guns is more in the ballpark of an update but would still have us asking "why call him Arrow". They have characters they could make into Iron Man - use them. I may wind up enjoying this version of the Atom but it still irks me when they needlessly use characters and then ditch the thing that makes that character, that character in terms of powers. Changing the Atom comic into Iron Man would just be a convenient retcon and would result in the loss of an interesting (if not successful) character. I think it's strange that people actually think there won't come a point when he'll shrink. We've only seen him take flight so far. I guess my POV is that I never thought they weren't getting to a point when Atom will shrink. All the supplementary stuff is just supplementary stuff. I just think a form of armor is easier for people to digest than a belt. And, if you're going to have a suit of tech, you might as well have it do other stuff. I think it's less drastic than saying it's equivalent to Ant-Man shooting eye beams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I think it's strange that people actually think there won't come a point when he'll shrink. We've only seen him take flight so far. I guess my POV is that I never thought they weren't getting to a point when Atom will shrink. All the supplementary stuff is just supplementary stuff. I just think a form of armor is easier for people to digest than a belt. And, if you're going to have a suit of tech, you might as well have it do other stuff. I think it's less drastic than saying it's equivalent to Ant-Man shooting eye beams. Fingers crossed he starts shrinking before the end of the season. I realise I probably sound a hypocrite as I was the one complaining being able to shrink is a crap power. The curse of being a comic reader, I guess :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know ATOM, can he grow as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Fingers crossed he starts shrinking before the end of the season. I realise I probably sound a hypocrite as I was the one complaining being able to shrink is a crap power. The curse of being a comic reader, I guess :P I researched it just know, out of fear I was coming off like a douche. I spotted an interview with Routh, where he seemed like he was trying to temper expectations over him shrinking. Alas, seems like we might be in for a wait. I just can't envision a scenario where it won't happen. Fingers crossed on this end as well. I think they're probably waiting until they can find a story where it'll work, without coming off cheesy obligatory giant pencil! I imagine it's hard writing a story about a shrinker. Ant-Man benefits from having his whole movie based around the ability. His villain shrinks. BlackBear, he could grow at one point. I dunno about the current continuity. I'm behind on comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGuy Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I don't know ATOM, can he grow as well? I don't remember him growing. IIRC, along the lines of trying to make shrinking a useful power, his size-shifting did allow him to manipulate his density for super-strength or to glide through the air. He could ride electrical fields to travel through phone lines for transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'm hoping that the shrinking comes as a result of the suit acting in an unintended manner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I don't know ATOM, can he grow as well? Only to his original size :P It does make me wonder whether we'll see Ant-man (or especially the Hank Pym one) do the giant man in the new film. I researched it just know, out of fear I was coming off like a douche. I spotted an interview with Routh, where he seemed like he was trying to temper expectations over him shrinking. Alas, seems like we might be in for a wait. I just can't envision a scenario where it won't happen. Fingers crossed on this end as well. I think they're probably waiting until they can find a story where it'll work, without coming off cheesy obligatory giant pencil! I imagine it's hard writing a story about a shrinker. Ant-Man benefits from having his whole movie based around the ability. His villain shrinks. BlackBear, he could grow at one point. I dunno about the current continuity. I'm behind on comics. No douchery, just two geeky forum folk "discussing" incredibly important matters :) From the new updtates regarding the team spin-off sounds like it's going to be a time-travel show with Rip Hunter/booster gold (possibly an amalgamation). This might sadly explain why Caity Lotz is in it. Maybe he picks her up before she was shot or she was working with him at some other point in time? Also explains why Victor Gerber and not the other half of firestorm are mentioned. I do recall his character being very interested in time although I can't remember if he said anything suggesting he had travelled through time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It does make me wonder whether we'll see Ant-man (or especially the Hank Pym one) do the giant man in the new film. The thing that always annoys me about Ant-Man growing is that when small he keeps his normal strength (so proportionally gets stronger.) But he doesn't get weaker when he grows, he gets stronger (although it does strain his system and movement.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The thing that always annoys me about Ant-Man growing is that when small he keeps his normal strength (so proportionally gets stronger.) But he doesn't get weaker when he grows, he gets stronger (although it does strain his system and movement.) Never thought about that but good point. I think in the Ultimates they placed a limit on his growth by saying his bone structure could only support a certain weight which only makes sense if he gains mass. Hulk does it all the time though so it's a thing in Marvel comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hulks mass comes from ambient Gamma radiation (apparently there's a lot just hanging around, I imagine the Marvel Universe has a lot of cancer victims.) Pym does lose mass when he gets smaller, he weighs what you'd expect for the size he is, but retains the same bone and structural strength he had before he shrank. If he weighed the same there'd be no way for him to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I usually nod off during the Arrow flashbacks, but I was shaken to coherence at the sudden appearance of Shado?! Whoa. I dunno where in the convoluted hell they are going to go with this, but I can't even pretend to be mad. I loved the actress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrick Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I... don't know what to say. Can't anyone stay dead... Shado. Now Slade looks like even more of an asshole. Hopefully, they come up with a kickass explanation for why she's alive, but right now it just looks like typical comic book bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 It was a relatively solid episode. Not the best. Solid. I'm not 100% on Batman's relationship to Ra's in terms of the offer to become the next Demon's Head, but I know it's something that hung in the background for the longest time too. The best part of this though is they're not going to drag out the identity of the new, deadlier Arrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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