red snow Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Arrow Season 4: Orange is the New Green. Even better Okay... I like Arrow fine and I used it as an example of how DC owned small screens while Marvel owns the cinema. Then came Daredevil. I know it's not fair to compare the two because Arrow is on a network like the CW but to be honest it's like Andy of Mayberry vs The Wire. Arrow started with a tone that was more comparable to Daredevil. They are very different beasts though and from what I've seen of Daredevil it benefits massively in the pacing (and not having to always have flashbacks or 22 episodes). I think you are right with saying it's more a case of network vs cable though. Then again even the "banter" in Devil is more slick. Competition is good though and I suspect Daredevil will cause Arrow and Flash (and Gotham) to up their games as comparisons are inevitable. And comic fans are vicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I think Arrow and Flash are at a severe disadvantage with 22 episodes. That throws off pacing, adds ridiculous and unnecessary plot elements and extends the story well beyond where it needs to be. Not to mention Daredevil likely has a higher budget per episode as a result to being on Netflix and having less episodes in general. I get the comparison and agree that Daredevil is the better show but even with the same writers, I don't think Arrow would have been any better than it is if they produced it on the CW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Since I'm not sure I'll ever see Daredevil, since I find the Netflix model of dropping all episodes at once of a show to be counter productive in many ways, it will be interesting to see how the networks adjust, if at all. Would shows like Arrow and Flash vendor from analyst episode orders? Likely, but it might be more likely to see a trend of something akin to Agent Carter and Shield for the networks. Give a show Season A and Season B and intersperse a mini Series in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I think Arrow and Flash are at a severe disadvantage with 22 episodes. That throws off pacing, adds ridiculous and unnecessary plot elements and extends the story well beyond where it needs to be. Not to mention Daredevil likely has a higher budget per episode as a result to being on Netflix and having less episodes in general. I get the comparison and agree that Daredevil is the better show but even with the same writers, I don't think Arrow would have been any better than it is if they produced it on the CW. Almost but I think CW would also interfere. I'm sure the lame unrequited love in Arrow is almost mandated by CW as it happens in so many of their shows. A bit like HBO with nudity. Netflix doesn't seem to be as adamant about any of those things. Netflix is probably a bit like "image" comics in the sense the creators make the show and they host it. So while Daredevil may not look as good on CW with the same creative team I still think there'd be more barriers. If it was on NBC, I'd say it would be pretty similar to netlflix based solely on how Hannibal has turned out. Since I'm not sure I'll ever see Daredevil, since I find the Netflix model of dropping all episodes at once of a show to be counter productive in many ways, it will be interesting to see how the networks adjust, if at all.Would shows like Arrow and Flash vendor from analyst episode orders? Likely, but it might be more likely to see a trend of something akin to Agent Carter and Shield for the networks. Give a show Season A and Season B and intersperse a mini Series in between. Yeah, I miss not being able to take part in the week to week discussions of weekly shows. Daredevil is a minefield with everyone watching at different rates. I do like the idea of half season arcs with a filler season in between. Some spin-off from Arrow/Flash could fit in between and allow the main shows to have more concentrated plots. Which i guess is what the new show will do. Then again there isn't really an excuse for why they can't be doing that right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 While I'm sure some of Arrow's stupidity is down to network interference, I don't believe they micromanage their shows to such a degree that it absolves the writers of blame.Since I'm not sure I'll ever see Daredevil, since I find the Netflix model of dropping all episodes at once of a show to be counter productive in many ways, it will be interesting to see how the networks adjust, if at all. Anybody who enjoys Arrow would probably enjoy Daredevil quite a lot. And considering the amount of content and the contract flexibility, I'm finding Netflix a rather good deal at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I might enjoy Daredevil. Hell, he was my first favorite comic. I don't enjoy the concept of Netflix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I might enjoy Daredevil. Hell, he was my first favorite comic.I don't enjoy the concept of Netflix.Are you not watching the show on principle, then? I understand not liking the Netflix MO, but if a show is good, then a show is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 While I'm sure some of Arrow's stupidity is down to network interference, I don't believe they micromanage their shows to such a degree that it absolves the writers of blame. Yeah but I still maintain that if Daredevil was on Netflix there'd be a lot more angst about Matt not getting the girl, the girl not getting Matt etc, etc. Most shows have those elements (they stand out like sore thumbs when forced) and a better writing team than the Arrow crew could probably make it less hammy. Although I think actors and their chemistry can make up for a lot in those situations too. Arrow is unlucky in that the writers/actors aren't stellar. The acting bit is partly CWs fault as they hire "young and good-looking" over skill. Basically the bottom line is Daredevil would be worse on CW and the Arrow would still be cheesy fun on netflix but with higher production values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I don't enjoy the concept of Netflix. The "concept of Netflix" to me is being able to watch a lot of content for a reasonable price without having to follow anybody else's schedule. It's what I've been waiting the entire media landscape to shift towards since first getting broadband access. The only downside with the current state of the market is that, thanks to antiquated distribution models holding back progress, content is scattered over a variety of platforms and occasionally not available at all, depending on which country you live in. As such, while I sympathise with the sentiment that releasing all episodes of a show at once may be somewhat detrimental to the parts of the experience that more or less require a more sedate pace of consumption, I feel that it is nonetheless important that this release model allows for me to go at my own speed, just as I can do with pretty much any other form of entertainment, instead of having my leisure time activities scheduled by some network's marketing department. Basically the bottom line is Daredevil would be worse on CW and the Arrow would still be cheesy fun on netflix but with higher production values. That sounds like a good summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Since I'm not sure I'll ever see Daredevil, since I find the Netflix model of dropping all episodes at once of a show to be counter productive in many ways, it will be interesting to see how the networks adjust, if at all. ....You might not watch a quality show because they drop all the episodes at once? There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know what to say. Are you not watching the show on principle, then? I understand not liking the Netflix MO, but if a show is good, then a show is good. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I do sometimes think the weekly release on amazon prime (at least in the UK) is a better model for new shows. Then again, maybe netflix thinks they get more new subscribers when they can get a whole season instantly than a constant trickle.I still think sustained hype around the show should market itself better than the done-in-one splash of Daredevil, That thread will be near dead in 4 weeks time and the same will be true in terms of general media coverage. People will be talking about Game of thrones for the next 10 weeks though. I certainly wouldn't not watch it because of this but maybe some feel like there's no point paying for a month subsription for a few days of viewing? I'm realising I've got enough to watch to keep me busy for a while though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I had a reply earlier. The 503 floob error ate it.Suffice to say, I prefer being able to talk about a show and dissecting it with others week to week. I really do feel it enhances the experience. I think weekly coverage and fan discussion/dissection can help a show chart a better course if it starts listlessly. Provided a show is given the time, of course. I get some prefer to digest their television differently. I won't ever tell you that you shouldn't enjoy what Netflix can do. I don't. It's a personal choice. I realize I'm likely in a minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 I had a reply earlier. The 503 floob error ate it.Suffice to say, I prefer being able to talk about a show and dissecting it with others week to week. I really do feel it enhances the experience. I think weekly coverage and fan discussion/dissection can help a show chart a better course if it starts listlessly. Provided a show is given the time, of course.I get some prefer to digest their television differently. I won't ever tell you that you shouldn't enjoy what Netflix can do. I don't. It's a personal choice. I realize I'm likely in a minority.Though long ago I would have been strongly in favor of what Netflix is doing, I agree with you on the joy of discussing a show on a weekly basis. Of course, if TV can adapt and improve their ways of providing us with quality shows, perhaps we can adapt as well on how we discuss them. In fact, the method this forum has used to handle spoilery discussions of the ASOIAF books, can be adopted to discuss shows that were released in their entirety. The one thing I want to see done away with are commercial interruptions. Channels like HBO shouldn't be the only ones doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 As always Jax, I understand what you mean. Still, Daredevil is a great show and ultimately, that's where most of my enjoyment comes from. The conversation is secondary to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I had a reply earlier. The 503 floob error ate it. Worst thing about a new GoT season. Suffice to say, I prefer being able to talk about a show and dissecting it with others week to week. I really do feel it enhances the experience. I think weekly coverage and fan discussion/dissection can help a show chart a better course if it starts listlessly. Provided a show is given the time, of course.I get some prefer to digest their television differently. I won't ever tell you that you shouldn't enjoy what Netflix can do. I don't. It's a personal choice. I realize I'm likely in a minority. I totally get the preference, and that nobody gets to tell anyone what to enjoy goes without saying (as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, obviously...), but in this case it seems to me that a. there's a relatively easy solution to the problem, by simpy agreeing to a discussion format beforehand (again, all the choices are up to the consumer) and b. your complete rejection of the format seems to imply you have never discovered a show years after its first airing and enjoyed it despite not being able to discuss it on a weekly basis. Considering that I've done that many times, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowKnight Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Here's a pretty great promo for both Arrow and The Flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Here's a pretty great promo for both Arrow and The Flash. I saw this yesterday. Cracked me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Maybe Jax is happy to watch it afterwards but doesn't want to pay netflix? That's reasonable. The Daredevil forum quickly became too much hassle to properly engage in discussion on the episodes. I'll probably go to the full season spoiler thread once I'm done. So in that sense I really do agree with Jaxom. Not to the point of not watching it though.A lot of shows I prefer to just watch in blocks eg Person of Interest, Justified and Americans and I don't really miss out on the discussion. I guess Arrow/Flash threads are just fun to take part in so I watch them weekly (although is suspect it is the "brain-off" plots that also justify a weekly watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Worst thing about a new GoT season. I totally get the preference, and that nobody gets to tell anyone what to enjoy goes without saying (as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, obviously...), but in this case it seems to me that a. there's a relatively easy solution to the problem, by simpy agreeing to a discussion format beforehand (again, all the choices are up to the consumer) and b. your complete rejection of the format seems to imply you have never discovered a show years after its first airing and enjoyed it despite not being able to discuss it on a weekly basis. Considering that I've done that many times, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that.I tend to categorize shows discovered after the fact differently. Finding something in syndication doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed. It's just a different animal. I came late to the Closer, getting into it in syndication and then bring there for the last season and a half, and this on to Major Crimes. Of course is a show that doesn't garner a lot of talk. I actually have the first two seasons of House of Cards. Watched four of them so far. Then all of the other stuff I enjoy came back on and I haven't been able to go back to it. I like it. I do. I can't for the life of me think of how to have a decent discussion about it though as I'm aware of how some things do end up due to the prevalence of information or there. And here? Start a beginners thread to discuss it and is impossible to keep riff raff out. Discussing shows after the fact is like talking about a book series in a lot of ways. Look at ASOIAF. How many of us would love to still talk about the books but find it impossible to do so North of the Wall on this very Forum? Maybe we need a new topic for this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Maybe we need a new topic for this discussion? It's an interesting discussion and one we've had a few times in various threads. I'm not sure we've ever had a consolidated one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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