Arrow Season 3 continued (spoilers)

[The BlackBear]

I get a lot of the Laurel hate, she's self righteous, selfish and kind of shit. But usuallyThea pisses me off more, she's so damn melodramatic about people lying to her, and to some extent that's justified by her family history - but half the time there's good reason for a lie and she just ignores it. It's hypocritical, and I'm glad they did her reaction to Oliver's reveal the way they did.

Why did Oliver need to keep his Arrow identity a secret from her? It put her at risk from villains who know who Oliver/Arrow is. Slade Huntress etc. Her knowing she might be a target would help her.

She kind of needs to know about the killing Sara thing, because I can't believe it's not going to come up when they go to fight Ras and the League. Better to be accepted early on than come up at an inopportune moment.

Slade is still alive on the island, not knowing about him again puts her at risk.

She's actually been very forgiving of the secrets.

[Jaxom 1974]

Hey, at least they sorta acknowledged that Thea isn't supposed to be exactly as good as she's gotten in a meta sorta way...

[Winterfell is Burning]

Hey, at least they sorta acknowledged that Thea isn't supposed to be exactly as good as she's gotten in a meta sorta way...

Well, she's got genetics on her side. And clearly Ollie is going easy on her.

[red snow]

I didn't mind the episode but then I like the actor who plays Slade. I got the impression he was slightly less insane so I look forward to him becoming an ally if his new show doesn't work out. I liked the mirroring of the flashback vs the present in the sense of island vs starling city but the flashback was largely pointless other than showing us LAurel's dad is also a nasty drunk.

Killing the drug dealer was hilarious.

Tommy Merlin seemed to be struggling at getting back in character.

The omega virus needs to be shamelessly shoehorned into the main plot sooner or later or it'll be even more pointless than currently appears. It'd be nice if Ra's had at least been portrayed as an eco extremist here (like in the 90s cartoon) and was planning on using the virus to depopulate earth or something.

It was a cruel tease to say someone else was in the prison as I suspect they don't have a clue and just want to have us speculate until they figure out who. Unless I'm missing something.

[Jon AS]

It was a cruel tease to say someone else was in the prison as I suspect they don't have a clue and just want to have us speculate until they figure out who. Unless I'm missing something.

That should be Captain Boomerang from earlier in the season. Obviously they didn't want to pay the actor for a cameo.

[Quoth]

Good ep last night. Yay! Felicity and Palmer getting busy! But "BOO!" to the Atom suit/flight.

Disappointed in Felicity. She should have known that the secret to getting past a scientist's mental block and getting a scientific breakthrough is getting the scientist laid...

[red snow]

It's funny how I'd forgotten how Arrow is essentially Batman to the point where the closing revelation really shouldn't have been a surprise. But when it happened I quietly (but acceptingly) groaned. The groans at seeing the iron man atom costume had no upside though. I was expecting it to look like the beetle costume (now they've admitted that's who they initially intended) but then it turns out it is an unashamed iron man rip off,

The flashback was essentially a gun-fight, right?

Then there's the whole Merlin training thing. It never made sense to me as Olly can beat Merlin, Merlin is scared of ra's so why should he be able to help? Then it turns out Merlin can't even take down Nyssa. Essentially the training was an utter waste of time. Diggle with a gun was more useful against the league of shitsassins.

It was fun watching Laurel be stupid again though and also have the audacity to be indignant with secrets after the shit she just pulled on her dad. Again, I was in full agreement with Olly telling her off. If she wanted to kill Merlin surely doing so while watching him train (like at the start of the episode) was the best way of getting him. But it's ok as she's supposed to be reckless,

Arsenal is proving to be super nice and patient even when trying to share someone's grief he is constantly told "well my case is worse",

All nitpicks aside the episode was dumb fun and felt like it was going somewhere which is what I'm mostly after in this show - pacy, fun (and a bit dumb)

[Knight of Ashes]

It's funny how I'd forgotten how Arrow is essentially Batman to the point where the closing revelation really shouldn't have been a surprise. But when it happened I quietly (but acceptingly) groaned.

Then there's the whole Merlin training thing. It never made sense to me as Olly can beat Merlin, Merlin is scared of ra's so why should he be able to help? Then it turns out Merlin can't even take down Nyssa. Essentially the training was an utter waste of time. Diggle with a gun was more useful against the league of shitsassins.

It was fun watching Laurel be stupid again though and also have the audacity to be indignant with secrets after the shit she just pulled on her dad. Again, I was in full agreement with Olly telling her off. If she wanted to kill Merlin surely doing so while watching him train (like at the start of the episode) was the best way of getting him. But it's ok as she's supposed to be reckless,

)

I thought Laurel's reaction to Ollie lying to her was more about the ease in which he was able to do it. Might not have been as easy for her with her dad.

Also, I don't think he's in a position to lecture Laurel on recklessness either considering the way he went back to Ra's without anything resembling a plan other than having Diggle as back-up. (Also, he hasn't finished training under a guy he's able to beat so he could take on a guy he couldn't).

I just think, in this ep anyway, it wasn't just Laurel who had a monopoly on stupid.

[red snow]

Olly isn't utterly guilt free in that department but he does have a)7 years of training under his belt and b) the element of surprise at attacking Nanda Parbat. Well the 30s of surprise it bought him. Olly was also in a catch-22 scenario if the only way he could rescue Merlin was by completing his training with Merlin but I agree on that whole premise being wobbly.

She also seemed to get completely into the groove of lying to her dad when she started pretending to be her dead sister although I grant she was cut up the first time she did that.

Then we have Thea's actions at the end of the episode...

At least Arsenal seems rational and Diggle even had a sit-down with his wife, discussed the reckless mission and got permission before going. So it looks like some characters can behave rationally. Maybe they all just need to have sex with Felicity as it seems to help said person think straight afterwards?

So, what do you think the chances are of Olly's flashback buddy getting to be the new Ra's when the season pans out?

[Knight of Ashes]

Olly isn't utterly guilt free in that department but he does have a)7 years of training under his belt and b) the element of surprise at attacking Nanda Parbat. Well the 30s of surprise it bought him. Olly was also in a catch-22 scenario if the only way he could rescue Merlin was by completing his training with Merlin but I agree on that whole premise being wobbly.

She also seemed to get completely into the groove of lying to her dad when she started pretending to be her dead sister although I grant she was cut up the first time she did that.

Oh, I had a point (I was kinda shooting in the dark with that one, since I only started watching Arrow regularly recently, after The Flash started) :P

[Jon AS]

Such a mixture of complete idiocy ('Hey Diggle, how about the two of us attack the League of Assassins in their stronghold in order to save the guy who brought us into conflict with them in the first place?') and some surprisingly decent moments. Who would have thought Roy would manage to take the spot of most rational and reasonable character?

Is the plot of Oliver being offered the spot as Ra's successor the most shameless theft of a Batman plot, yet?

And speaking of shameless: they aren't even trying to give the Atom suit anything that would make it not look like a complete Iron Man rip-off, are they?

Also: given the casual manner in which Ra's implies he's hundred's of years old, surely they have to do something with the Lazarus Pit at some point in this arc?

And finally: could they please settle on a pronounciation for Ra's' name? For the record: I prefer the one from the Nolan movies.

Apparently the CW is also planning another spin-off featuring, amongst others, Brandon Routh and... Caity Lotz? What? I'm very much of the opinion that killing off Sara was a bad idea and wasted plenty of potential (just imagine how much more interesting it would have been if we could have gotten some of her flashbacks in the League instead of being limited to Oliver's Hong Kong adventures this season), but surely having it turn out that she's not actually dead would undercut what little value this plot had? And introducing an identical doppelganger seems like a pretty bad idea, too.

[Jaxom 1974]

So that wad the Lazarus Pit Ra's wad lunging in at the beginning, right?

I have no issues with roping of the Batman stuff. It's been the modus operandi of the show since the get go, some I'm riding it out.

I wouldn't be surprised is the power of the Pit isn't demonstrated to Oliver by bringing back Sara. That being said, I dying think bringing her back undercuts the overall story, but it's taken too long to get there.

I reserve judgement on Atom at this point. Hard to complain about it being an Iron Man rip off when it's been obvious that was what was being designed.

[Mexal]

So that wad the Lazarus Pit Ra's wad lunging in at the beginning, right?

I have no issues with roping of the Batman stuff. It's been the modus operandi of the show since the get go, some I'm riding it out.

I wouldn't be surprised is the power of the Pit isn't demonstrated to Oliver by bringing back Sara. That being said, I dying think bringing her back undercuts the overall story, but it's taken too long to get there.

I reserve judgement on Atom at this point. Hard to complain about it being an Iron Man rip off when it's been obvious that was what was being designed.

I could see them bringing back Sara, but only if the spin off with Atom goes into production.

As for the Batman stuff, I'm fine with it too. I didn't expect that to be honest so was surprised.

[Jon Flow]

I think that the pool that Ras' was lounging in wasn't a Lazarus pit. It's too close and it's side-effects too closely mirror Miracu (Sp?) Besides... if you notice, Ras' asked Ollie to "...be the next Ra's Al Ghul." Kind of makes me think that in this universe Ra's Al Ghul is a title and not a name. That would totally eliminate the need for a Lazarus Pit.


On the Laurel hate.... Well I understand it in the sense that her character has been poorly serviced. So many times her agency has been sacrificed to turn her into a plot device. I do like the actress though. She's able to slog through some of the series worst dialogue without making me want to throw my remote.

Finally, I think the ATOM storyline would have been a lot cooler if it was the Blue Beetle as initially planned.

[Jon AS]

I think that the pool that Ras' was lounging in wasn't a Lazarus pit. It's too close and it's side-effects too closely mirror Miracu (Sp?) Besides... if you notice, Ras' asked Ollie to "...be the next Ra's Al Ghul." Kind of makes me think that in this universe Ra's Al Ghul is a title and not a name. That would totally eliminate the need for a Lazarus Pit.

When talking to Merlyn, Ra's talked about meeting a guy in the 1850s, and when he duelled Oliver he said nobody had challenged him in 60 years. He's either really old or completely delusional.

Now that I think about it, it could actually be kind of funny if the League was really a kind of new age cult founded by Ra's some thirty or fourty years ago.

[Martini Sigil]

Sooooooooo........ Ras al Ghul = Dread Pirate Roberts?

....Nyssa is uber giggity

[Corvinus85]

I think that the pool that Ras' was lounging in wasn't a Lazarus pit. It's too close and it's side-effects too closely mirror Miracu (Sp?) Besides... if you notice, Ras' asked Ollie to "...be the next Ra's Al Ghul." Kind of makes me think that in this universe Ra's Al Ghul is a title and not a name. That would totally eliminate the need for a Lazarus Pit.

I still think there is a Lazarus Pit. Ra's told Merlyn of a magician he met in the 1800s and that he met him 50 years later. I doubt he was recounting the story of a predecessor and identifying himself with that Ra's. Also the Mirakuru may have been first developed by someone who had found a Lazarus pit.

[red snow]

I wouldn't be surprised is the power of the Pit isn't demonstrated to Oliver by bringing back Sara. That being said, I dying think bringing her back undercuts the overall story, but it's taken too long to get there.

Almost certainly and as an incentive from Ra's to Olly.

I think that the pool that Ras' was lounging in wasn't a Lazarus pit. It's too close and it's side-effects too closely mirror Miracu (Sp?) Besides... if you notice, Ras' asked Ollie to "...be the next Ra's Al Ghul." Kind of makes me think that in this universe Ra's Al Ghul is a title and not a name. That would totally eliminate the need for a Lazarus Pit.

I still think there is a Lazarus Pit. Ra's told Merlyn of a magician he met in the 1800s and that he met him 50 years later. I doubt he was recounting the story of a predecessor and identifying himself with that Ra's. Also the Mirakuru may have been first developed by someone who had found a Lazarus pit.

I agree - I think the pool we saw was a homage rather than the L-pit. It's probably in a mine in nanda parbat but not in the form of a bath tub.I also agree that it would be far more organic to link miracuru to the lazurus pit. As you say they have similar properties although it seems Ra's is quite with it so he either conquered the delusions or we've yet to see him act insane.

The miracuru could be a non-Flash explosion vehicle for other powered individuals if the Miracuru/lazarus has been around a few centuries and generated mutations in the descendants of those who used it.

[Jon Flow]

Yeah... I for one am not excited about the FLASH. Grodd looks like crap. When making a T.V. show that runs 20+ episodes a year for a network like the CW, there is a finite amount of attention that can be paid. I'd rather see that effort targeted at the writing and performers. To be honest, if I want to see some dude fly around in armor I'll go see Ironman where the special effects have their own team and millions of dollars to spend on it. I hate to say it, but with HD widescreen tvs the disparity in quality between television and movies is VERY noticeable.

Do us all a favor... jettison the dumb Atom storyline and maybe focus on salvaging the season's main plotline.

[red snow]

I think when the show started and was relatively grounded it looked pretty damn slick. Adding the more wacky elements makes it easier to notice the cracks. This season has had some truly awful green screen moments of training on the island/mountain.The fight choreography is usually pretty good by TV standards though. I guess money is being diverted to the ever growing cast.

I genuinely don't know what CW are thinking with the Iron Man suit. Or, more accurately, I know what they are thinking but I'm offended by the notion the audience would be that easily swayed.