WHEEL OF TIME officially optioned for television

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, Astromech said:

They should have Thom Merrilin sing a song about it when he first visits Emond's Field as a gleeman.

Liking that; similar to scenes like in "Reign of Fire" where they act out scenes from star wars for the kids; or better yet, like Harry Potter telling the story of the 3 brothers

[Myrddin]

4 hours ago, Astromech said:

They should have Thom Merrilin sing a song about it when he first visits Emond's Field as a gleeman.

Sing me a song, of a lad who is gone
Say that that lad, be I
Tortured of soul, he left on a day
Side of the mount, to cry

Billow and blow, lightning below
Blood running through her hair
All that was good, all that was fair
All that I am, despair

Sing me a song, of a lad who is gone
Say that that lad, be I
Tortured of soul, he left on a day
Side of the mount, to cry

[Corvinus85]

3 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Sing me a song, of a lad who is gone
Say that that lad, be I
Tortured of soul, he left on a day
Side of the mount, to cry

Billow and blow, lightning below
Blood running through her hair
All that was good, all that was fair
All that I am, despair

Sing me a song, of a lad who is gone
Say that that lad, be I
Tortured of soul, he left on a day
Side of the mount, to cry

It would be awesome if Bear McCreary is the composer for the show, and his wife sings a song or two.

[Myrddin]

@Corvinus : agreed. Bear would be great. Been a fan of his since BSG and keep seeing his name everywhere now.

You know, I started typing up that version of the boat song as a joke, but by the time I finished it, I started liking the concept. Use the main theme song to tell a cryptic story (like the prologue does) with no context. Then as the seasons go on, the (new) viewers revisit that song's meaning with the new information until eventually they realize its the ballad of the Dragon, sung before and is now being sung again, and will be sung until it is forgotten, only to be remembered and sung again with the turnings of the Wheel.

But I do have a love/hate relationship with show theme songs when sung. I love Outlander's song. Mysterious and evocative. But most show songs flop and try too hard. Shannara (hated), Versailles (hated at first but it grew on me), Vikings (perfect).  now I can't cite the bad ones... 

[Astromech]

25 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Sing me a song, of a lad who is gone
Say that that lad, be I
Tortured of soul, he left on a day
Side of the mount, to cry

Billow and blow, lightning below
Blood running through her hair
All that was good, all that was fair
All that I am, despair

Sing me a song, of a lad who is gone
Say that that lad, be I
Tortured of soul, he left on a day
Side of the mount, to cry

Haha. I like it. Or throw in the prologue quote:

“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”

22 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

It would be awesome if Bear McCreary is the composer for the show, and his wife sings a song or two.

The Black Sails opening theme is one of my all time favs.

[fionwe1987]

17 hours ago, felice said:

Perhaps a double-length first episode? 12 chapters plus the prologue is a lot of material to cover, and I think less disposable than a lot of the content of later books.

A double feature could work. But I'm not sure what works best as an end point, before chapter 10. Sure, they could end with Rand escaping his farm with Tam injured, but what comes before just doesn't feel like enough for the first episode.

The books have the luxury of introducing Two River's government system, hints about the wider world, etc. but those won't translate into screen as anything more than dialogue. If there's too much of that, followed by a Trolloc attack, I think it makes for a poorly paced episode. So I feel jumping to them leaving the Two Rivers, and doing some of the character work for Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve and Thom later, makes sense.

That said, there's no way they wouldn't do the Prologue. That would be immensely self-defeating. The Prologue is what allowed me to move past the obvious LotR-homage that the first few chapters were. It promised... more. And its an explosive opening, probably one of the best Epic Fantasy prologues ever. They'd be complete morons to move it to later.

I think they start with it as a cold open. I think a voiceover makes sense, and so what if they have to show advanced tech? That's what makes the whole thing look different. I think they should spend a significant amount of cash making the CG here look great. Do that, and you've attracted a decent crowd already. And LTT's death, and a voiceover talking about the turning of the wheel, and the return of the Dragon can nicely segue into the credit sequence, which will obviously have a wheel-theme.

Then you launch with the wind, ages coming and going and so on, by the same voiceover. Leads you nicely to Rand walking down the road and seeing the Myrdraal.

The early chapters have a lot of visual flair, and they could do far worse than to follow RJ's playbook.

[Werthead]

One possibility to save time: have Rand and Tam stay in Emond's Field. The Trollocs attack, Tam tries to get Rand to safety and they get jumped by Narg on the edge of town. Rand had told him a few days earlier about the Myrddraal, which is why Tam has his sword with him. Tam is injured, Rand drags him back to the inn and Tam blurts out the stuff about the mountain and finding the baby.

This way you lose a lot of time travelling to and from the farmhouse, the expense of building the farmhouse set and you actually see the big (ish) battle in Episode 1 rather than hearing about it afterwards or cutting away from Rand's story to it (which reduces the intensity of Rand's story).

[felice]

3 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

A double feature could work. But I'm not sure what works best as an end point, before chapter 10. Sure, they could end with Rand escaping his farm with Tam injured, but what comes before just doesn't feel like enough for the first episode.

The reveal of Rand's origins seems like a good point to split a double-length episode for reruns.

3 minutes ago, Werthead said:

This way you lose a lot of time travelling to and from the farmhouse, the expense of building the farmhouse set and you actually see the big (ish) battle in Episode 1 rather than hearing about it afterwards or cutting away from Rand's story to it (which reduces the intensity of Rand's story).

Saving the expense of the farmhouse might make sense, but I think the show really does need to give the other characters a share of the limelight right from the start. The series as a whole is very much an ensemble piece, not just the story of Rand. Perrin in particular returns to the Two Rivers later, so establishing his home and family should be a priority, and Mat, Egwene, and Nynaeve also need to be presented as protagonists in their own right, not just people Rand knows.

I'd have Tam and Rand attacked by themselves on the road to the farm, if the farm itself isn't affordable. Perhaps open the second half of the episode with the attack on the village, which we definitely should see.

[williamjm]

3 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

That said, there's no way they wouldn't do the Prologue. That would be immensely self-defeating. The Prologue is what allowed me to move past the obvious LotR-homage that the first few chapters were. It promised... more. And its an explosive opening, probably one of the best Epic Fantasy prologues ever. They'd be complete morons to move it to later.

I think they start with it as a cold open. I think a voiceover makes sense, and so what if they have to show advanced tech? That's what makes the whole thing look different. I think they should spend a significant amount of cash making the CG here look great. Do that, and you've attracted a decent crowd already. And LTT's death, and a voiceover talking about the turning of the wheel, and the return of the Dragon can nicely segue into the credit sequence, which will obviously have a wheel-theme.

I agree, the prologue is the obvious place to start. It's what makes the beginning of the story interesting. I like the idea of seguing between the prologue as shown in the books and Thom telling the end of the tale to the youngsters of Emond's Field, it would be an easy way of showing the passage of time between the prologue and the start of the story.

[fionwe1987]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

One possibility to save time: have Rand and Tam stay in Emond's Field. The Trollocs attack, Tam tries to get Rand to safety and they get jumped by Narg on the edge of town. Rand had told him a few days earlier about the Myrddraal, which is why Tam has his sword with him. Tam is injured, Rand drags him back to the inn and Tam blurts out the stuff about the mountain and finding the baby.

This way you lose a lot of time travelling to and from the farmhouse, the expense of building the farmhouse set and you actually see the big (ish) battle in Episode 1 rather than hearing about it afterwards or cutting away from Rand's story to it (which reduces the intensity of Rand's story).

Good idea, but I also like the other idea of having them attacked on their way back from EF to their farm. 

33 minutes ago, felice said:

The reveal of Rand's origins seems like a good point to split a double-length episode for reruns.

Saving the expense of the farmhouse might make sense, but I think the show really does need to give the other characters a share of the limelight right from the start. The series as a whole is very much an ensemble piece, not just the story of Rand. Perrin in particular returns to the Two Rivers later, so establishing his home and family should be a priority, and Mat, Egwene, and Nynaeve also need to be presented as protagonists in their own right, not just people Rand knows.

I'd have Tam and Rand attacked by themselves on the road to the farm, if the farm itself isn't affordable. Perhaps open the second half of the episode with the attack on the village, which we definitely should see.

I agree we should see the attack on the village. Especially showing Perrin and the Luhhans, and his parent's place getting attacked, and his concern for them. That adds crucial motivation to his actions in whatever Season they have him returning to the Two Rivers. 

Showing Egwene's relationship with Rand and Nynaeve is also crucial. The Rand-Egwene dynamic is a huge driver of Rand's suspicion of Moiraine, so it needs to be emphasized.

But, I don't think any of this per se needs a double feature. 

You can do the prologue in about 10 minutes, then a 3-4 minute scene of Rand and Tam seeing the hooded horseman. Then 10 minutes where Perrin, Rand, Mat and Egwene talk about the horsemen with the village elders, and Moiraine gets introduced. Next scene, the Fain comes in, and you also introduce Thom. Maybe have them enter town together. That's another 5 minutes, totaling 30.

Next, you have Rand and Tam leaving town, and getting attacked on the way, while simultaneously, you have the attack on the village, which focuses on the Inn (so Moiraine, Thom, Egwene) and Perrin's family. These scenes can alternate with each other, and then you have Rand dragging Tam back, and learning of his birth, while maybe Moiraine and Lan talk of the three boys, and wondering if they're safe, and which of them was born on Dragonmount... and credits roll.

It seems workable within an hour, to me.

25 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I agree, the prologue is the obvious place to start. It's what makes the beginning of the story interesting. I like the idea of seguing between the prologue as shown in the books and Thom telling the end of the tale to the youngsters of Emond's Field, it would be an easy way of showing the passage of time between the prologue and the start of the story.

It should be Tam, not Thom, if they go this route. Thom himself is an outsider, and if you start off with him telling the story, its harder to make him seem suspicious, as he should be.

Plus, the alternate prologue to EotW actually has Tam telling Lews Therin's true story to the boys and Egwene, so it would be a nice callback to that.

[williamjm]

7 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

But, I don't think any of this per se needs a double feature.

The concept of a double feature seems a bit old-fashioned in the era of binge watching anyway, particularly if Amazon release the entire season at once.

Edit: the board seems determined to embed my reply into the quote below.

Quote

It should be Tam, not Thom, if they go this route. Thom himself is an outsider, and if you start off with him telling the story, its harder to make him seem suspicious, as he should be.

Plus, the alternate prologue to EotW actually has Tam telling Lews Therin's true story to the boys and Egwene, so it would be a nice callback to that.

Good point, I think using Tam does work better. It also gives an opportunity to introduce Tam, there will be plenty of opportunities to get to to know Thom later in the series.

[fionwe1987]

35 minutes ago, williamjm said:

The concept of a double feature seems a bit old-fashioned in the era of binge watching anyway, particularly if Amazon release the entire season at once.

Edit: the board seems determined to embed my reply into the quote below.

Yeah, if Amazon do release the season at once, then episode 1 can be whatever it wants to be. They should really treat each season as one long movie.

[Werthead]

Episode 2 will be called Shadow's Waiting and will be written by Amanda Kate Shuman, who has worked as a producer on Berlin Station and a script editor on The Blacklist.

If Episode 2 takes them up to the end of Shadar Logoth storyline, that suggests they're aiming to tell all of The Eye of the World in 6 episodes. That to me suggests they're aiming to do the first two novels in Season 1.

[Corvinus85]

They can certainly skip over much of the Baerlon stuff. Nynaeve can catch up to them on the road when they make camp. The only question is Min, whether or not she'll be introduced at this stage.

But it could be that episode will only have them arrive in Shadar Logoth, and the escape from it will be in the following episode. 

[The Anti-Targ]

The only question I have is will Rand be a polygamist in the show? I'm sure he'll get with them all as the story progresses, but probably sequentially rather than concurrently.

[Myrddin]

10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The only question I have is will Rand be a polygamist in the show? I'm sure he'll get with them all as the story progresses, but probably sequentially rather than concurrently.

He'll be like James Bond with a new girl friend in each season. Except all the Bond Girls show up for the last act...

#aaawwwwkwwwwaaaaarrrrddddd

[Corvinus85]

10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The only question I have is will Rand be a polygamist in the show? I'm sure he'll get with them all as the story progresses, but probably sequentially rather than concurrently.

I suspect the bond will be formed with all three.

[Werthead]

16 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The only question I have is will Rand be a polygamist in the show? I'm sure he'll get with them all as the story progresses, but probably sequentially rather than concurrently.

To be fair, it's kind of like that in the books. He hooks up with Elayne, then Aviendha and then Min and only once (at the bonding session, which is less fun than it sounds) are all four of them in the same room at the same time alone together after that point. Kind of like RJ went to the edge of something a bit kinky and then backed off on it, perhaps realising he wasn't going to be able to depict it without it being puerile and too much of an obviously male fantasy.

[Myrddin]

Given they feel emotions through the bond, it could enter Sense 8 levels if they wanted to push the boundaries.

[red snow]

Given Amazon clearly wants a GOT, I wonder which show between this and Conan is most likely to get the sex scenes? I'd hope lord of the rings was off limits as it seems an almost asexual world (usually due to lack of female characters and homosexuality bring too taboo at the time). Conan seems the best candidate but that's probably down to  me comparing it with soartacus. Although any show where sense8 scenarios could occur must have at least implied sex going on.

I'm happy with just a well made show but I find it hard to believe there won't be the mythological on set advisor from GOT suggesting "this scene could use some nudity' if they are trying to distill factors that GOT is known for.

Onto actual adaptation matters. Is the first book relatively easy to adapt in terms of cost? I'm thinking with LOTR that for other fantasy shows to get past pilot/season 1 will need to be relatively cheap to make. If the show gets an audience they can always expand the budget but a really expensive first season could out Amazon off or make less willing to renew without a great reception