U.S. Politics - Indiana is super awesome

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Should they? No. Can they? They can certainly try, and just like the pizza place up above, I would hope their business quickly fails and is forced to shut down.

More specifically - if an identical business operated in the United States, do you think that it should be against the law for them to serve exclusively Muslim clients? Should a Christian be able to successfully sue them for refusing to serve them?

And to be clear - I'm not trying to pick a fight either way. Commodore posted the link and basically cried hypocrisy. I strongly suspect that just about everyone's position in this thread is going to remain consistent on these issues regardless of whether the business is a discriminatory pizza parlor or a Muslim-exclusive photography service.

[SkynJay]

Anyone? A cop, firefighter, EMT?

The only vet in town, the major grocery store of the area, etc.

We have been through it already. It is idiotic and luckily most places the law disagrees with that nonsense.

[Swordfish]

Double.

Perhaps commodore or someone else has an example of something similar in the US that'd be a bit more relevant?

http://gazette.com/expansion-of-religious-rights-in-colorado-discrimination-cases-fails/article/1547648

In another case, a Colorado man filed complaints against three bakeries that refused to make a Bible-themed cake with religious scripture. One of the bakers, Marjorie Silva, owner of Denver's Azucar Bakery, said she refused to make the cake because she considered the Bible scripture and images the man wanted to be hateful toward gays. Those cases are being reviewed by Colorado's Civil Rights Division.

Read more at http://gazette.com/expansion-of-religious-rights-in-colorado-discrimination-cases-fails/article/1547648#LdXhmfxmfUtAvKcA.99

Not entirely the same though, since it's the message on the cake that she found objectionable, and not the demographic of the customer.

On the flipside, the willy week did this interesting exercise, and it ended pretty predictably:

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-20698-the-cake-wars.html

[all swedes are racist]

http://gazette.com/expansion-of-religious-rights-in-colorado-discrimination-cases-fails/article/1547648

Not entirely the same though, since it's the message on the cake that she found objectionable, and not the demographic of the customer.

A rather significant distinction, I'd say.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

http://gazette.com/expansion-of-religious-rights-in-colorado-discrimination-cases-fails/article/1547648

Not entirely the same though, since it's the message on the cake that she found objectionable, and not the demographic of the customer.

On the flipside, the willy week did this interesting exercise, and it ended pretty predictably:

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-20698-the-cake-wars.html

I wonder what type of party you would bring a Bible-themed cake with homophobic scripture frosting to.

"Happy birthday, son! Remember, if a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death! Who wants the slice with extra Leviticus!?"

[Swordfish]

I wonder what type of party you would bring a Bible-themed cake with homophobic scripture frosting to.

A tea party... Naturally......

[Cuellar]

In other news...

An interesting take on wealth inequality...

https://medium.com/the-ferenstein-wire/a-26-year-old-mit-graduate-is-turning-heads-over-his-theory-that-income-inequality-is-actually-2a3b423e0c

But of course, we have top preserve all those pretty, pretty buildings, so..... Even if he's right, I'm not sure there's much to be done about it.

I read that article as well, and it is pretty interesting. The problem with housing wealth is that it is not specifically transferable unless you sell your expensive house and move to a lower cost area.

I totally agree with the NIMBY argument, this sort of attitude holds back progress across the country and creates a ton of waste. Case and point is 2 major freeways in LA where they don't connect and miss each other by about 2000 ft (210 and 110). Fucking asshats in Pasadena refuse to let them connect, instead creating massive traffic via alternative freeways. Sometimes I wish we had a little Beijing in us where we just made shit happen if it needs to happen. The development process in the US is fucked up, and too painful. It's way too easy for 1 idiot to stop development for bullshit reasons (or just cause delays).

[Swordfish]

A rather significant distinction, I'd say.

is it though? so if I, as a straight man, went into a bakery and tried to get them to create a wedding cake with two men kissing, they could refuse because they don't disagree with my lifestyle, just what i want them to put on the cake? Even if they were willing to make me any other type of cake?

[Durckad]

The front page of their website clearly says that they are a "boutique photography company catering exclusively to Muslim clients."

Now, I get that this business is not even in North America. But I am somewhat curious as to whether people in this thread think that a business catering "exclusively" to Muslim clients should be allowed to operate in the United States.

I don't see that anywhere on the page, but like the crimson crustacean, I'm looking on my phone and it appears some parts of the page aren't loading correctly.

If it's true, then yeah, I wouldn't support that.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Anyone? A cop, firefighter, EMT?

Government services are obviously different, since everyone pays taxes

[SkynJay]

Government services are obviously different, since everyone pays taxes

And the rest? The last hotel in town with occupancy? The only large animal vet in a ten fifty mile radius? The only non 7-11 grocery store in walking distance?

[Fragile Bird]

Re the British Muslim photographer. I assume what he really wanted to express was "specializing" in Muslim weddings, but the idea of exclusiveness sounds so much more posh.

If anyone wants to file a complaint against him, all he needs to do is set out his photographic standards - he takes pictures of men, she takes pictures of women, and they don't take pictures of men and women together. If you are Christisn and want wedding photographs like that, go ahead and hire us.

[paddington]

That Msuslim photographer should have every right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. As should a gay photographer who despises Christians, or a Christian who despises gays

So everyone has the right to refuse everyone else. Which wouldn't effect me too much being white and straight, but would everyone that wasn't. It would be the majority refusing to give service to whatever minority they didn't like.

The muslim Photo studio is breaking the law if they refuse servce based on religion. Why they haven't been is because nobody been that bothered about it, because theres plenty of people to photo christian weddings.

[Crazydog7]

I honestly don’t know what my feelings are about this. The good news is that the “anonymous” guy who called the radio show has been found

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html

Now I normally think that Yelp is the kind of thing that is absolutely not necessary but in this case I will make an exception.

The thing that makes me the most angry about all of this other then Indiana bigotry dressed up as religious freedom are all of these corporations who want to be seen as LGBT friendly when you know that’s bullshit all they want is to build a little goodwill so they can get more access to LGBT dollars. So their cynicism annoys me but at least all of this has lead to three days worth of the governor of the state cap in hand before the cameras going “No no we don’t have institutionalized homophobia in this state what the law really means is……”

[Fragile Bird]

Just got home, turned on the tv to CNBC, and saw the announcement that the Governor of Arkansas has sent the bill that was like Indiana's back to the legislature for revision. Walmart had asked him not to sign it.

[BloodRider]

And here we go with GA:

http://i.imgur.com/orgqmM2.png

[Crazydog7]

Just got home, turned on the tv to CNBC, and saw the announcement that the Governor of Arkansas has sent the bill that was like Indiana's back to the legislature for revision. Walmart had asked him not to sign it.

And isn't a statement from a corperation so much more effective then a statement from a large group of voters? Sad but true.

[Seli]

is it though? so if I, as a straight man, went into a bakery and tried to get them to create a wedding cake with two men kissing, they could refuse because they don't disagree with my lifestyle, just what i want them to put on the cake? Even if they were willing to make me any other type of cake?

That is a completely different situation though :)

That is them being offended, not the client being offensive as in the other case.

[all swedes are racist]

is it though? so if I, as a straight man, went into a bakery and tried to get them to create a wedding cake with two men kissing, they could refuse because they don't disagree with my lifestyle, just what i want them to put on the cake? Even if they were willing to make me any other type of cake?

Yes, it very much is.

The difference being refusing to service an idea or message as opposed to a person (or at least an aspect of their personhood).

I'm not sure about your example because I'd imagine a lot of assumptions (I'm no lawyer, but if they refuse because of the assumption you are gay -- or your cake is for a gay couple -- you'd have a better chance of bringing a successful suit.)

[Ramsay Gimp]

And isn't a statement from a corperation so much more effective then a statement from a large group of voters? Sad but true.

Or it could be that the majority of Arkansas voters actually support the bill, hence it passing the legislature in the first place