"Hey Robert, Lyanna didn't want to be with you"

[Jon's Queen Consort]

If we think that Lyanna willingly left with Rhaegar and Ned knew about it, how come Ned never told Robert that Lyanna didn't like him?

The times Robert brough up the matter of Rhaegar kidnapping her, Ned just stands there.

What's the deal with that? I don't see the point of hiding this from Robert. It could've even helped his friend to accept and move on.

Robert has depression something like that would most probably make him worse rather than help him. Also Robert never believed that Lyanna loved him, he love her and it happens that some people just love others without expecting anything.

[Liaraeyne]

If it got known that Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly, it might bring the Stark family in danger. Robert is not the most reasonable man. Eddard was wise not to tell Robert.

I doubt Robert would believe it at all actually. He is deluded when it comes to Lyanna.

[Crippledtank]

He only asked for Robert's head when talks of rebellions were made.

I am not blaming the North for what happened. I am only saying that if you take Lyanna out of the picture than the Baratheons had very little reason to fight the war. May I remind you who made the Baratheons lords of Storm's end in the first place

I'm pretty sure I read that Jon arryn started the rebellion instead of slaying ned as Robert.

If you take lyanna out of the equation then no one has any reason to be in the rebellion (Rickard & Brandon don't go to KL)

Aegon made orys baratheon lord of storms end by marring him to the daughter of the stormsend who took thier words and sigil out of respect and that was nearly 300 years ago.... I think good old Robert is more worried about lyanna (who he loves) and ned who he saw as a brother than the event that happened 300 years ago...

You can't expect Robert to be great-full to someone who wants him dead because of what his great great great great ...... Great grandfather did.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

C´mon folks, without Orys, Aegon would not be king of westeros... he was his only true friend, half-brother and more importantly the Overall Commander of his ground troops... he would not win Westeros just with his sisters and 3 dragons, it´s not enough...

Orys was awarded with what he deserved and Aegon would probably give him more if he asked...

Lyonel's rebellion might have been too much but we still have to read more about it... but Robert's?? Unless Jon gave both his "kids" heads to Aerys, it was bound to happen, and with 100% good reason for it

Edit: Regardind the topic, yeah it might have been difficult for Ned to tell his best friend that after her death... but why didn´t Lyanna spared an hour of her time to tell Robert... "i don´t love you, find another"... Bob with his pride would soon find another bride, he was LP and one of the most handsome guys in the kingdoms, and both would be happy... for the life of me, i can't see why not tell him... it's not like he would hammer her head in front of Ned and yell... "WHY YOU NO LOVE MEEEEE"

[Jon's Queen Consort]

C´mon folks, without Orys, Aegon would not be king of westeros... he was his only true friend, half-brother and more importantly the Overall Commander of his ground troops... he would not win Westeros just with his sisters and 3 dragons, it´s not enough...

Orys was awarded with what he deserved and Aegon would probably give him more if he asked...

Lyonel's rebellion might have been too much but we still have to read more about it... but Robert's?? Unless Jon gave both his "kids" heads to Aerys, it was bound to happen, and with 100% good reason for it

Seeing how Lyonel risked in order to help Egg and Dunk I believe that he had every right to be pissed off with Eggs hypocrisy

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Seeing how Lyonel risked in order to help Egg and Dunk I believe that he had every right to be pissed off with Eggs hypocrisy

No doubt, but i want to learn all the details in Dunk & Egg to judge better the situation... maybe Egg would've given Rhaelle´s hand to his son without a rebellion... but yes no conflict between Targs and Stags was EVER started by a Baratheon... it´s seems the Targs like to mess up with the Stags just for shits and giggles :dunno:

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

First of all, I refuse to believe Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar willingly. I am firmly convinced that she was kidnapped against her will. Sadly, this means that Jon Snow is in all likelihood a child of rape.

Not substantiated by the textual evidence, sorry.

Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because of prophecy, and presumably managed to convince her of its importance ("no babe, you don't understand, we need to have sex for the greater good of the realm"). Him being the most handsome man in the world probably didn't hurt though.

We don't know yet what Lyanna told Ned when he came to ToJ, and whether she only begged him to keep Jon's identity secret for his safety, or explained something about prophecy aswell. Either way, Ned is likely very sad and conflicted about the whole thing, and doesn't feel like joining Robert's Rhaegar-roasting.

I don't remember reading it anywhere, but I feel like Lyanna liked Robert back. Something Rhaegar told her made her change her mind.

Hey, your crackpot is as good as mine, I guess... although there's no evidence in the story that Lyanna liked Robert. She was critical of his behavior at best.

I'm pretty sure I read that Jon arryn started the rebellion instead of slaying ned as Robert.

If you take lyanna out of the equation then no one has any reason to be in the rebellion (Rickard & Brandon don't go to KL)

Aegon made orys baratheon lord of storms end by marring him to the daughter of the stormsend who took thier words and sigil out of respect and that was nearly 300 years ago.... I think good old Robert is more worried about lyanna (who he loves) and ned who he saw as a brother than the event that happened 300 years ago...

You can't expect Robert to be great-full to someone who wants him dead because of what his great great great great ...... Great grandfather did.

Is everyone forgetting that Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen? He's 1/4 dragon himself.

Seeing how Lyonel risked in order to help Egg and Dunk I believe that he had every right to be pissed off with Eggs hypocrisy

No, he didn't. Here are three reasons why:

--It wasn't Egg who offended Lyonel, it was his son.

--It wasn't as if Egg let Duncan get away with it without punishment. The Prince of Dragonflies was disinherited for marrying Jenny instead of the Baratheon girl. It wasn't as if there were no consequences.

--The Storm Lord wasn't the only LP offended. None of Egg's children other than Rhaelle went along with their arranged marriage... and guess which House got her? Gee, I wonder what her life was like...

[WSmith84]

He only asked for Robert's head when talks of rebellions were made.

I am not blaming the North for what happened. I am only saying that if you take Lyanna out of the picture than the Baratheons had very little reason to fight the war. May I remind you who made the Baratheons lords of Storm's end in the first place

Sorry, but that's just untrue. After burning Rickard and Brandon Stark, Aerys sent a raven to Jon Arryn demanding the heads of Robert and Ned Stark. So Robert had every reason to fight without Lyanna.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

If we think that Lyanna willingly left with Rhaegar and Ned knew about it, how come Ned never told Robert that Lyanna didn't like him?

The times Robert brough up the matter of Rhaegar kidnapping her, Ned just stands there.

What's the deal with that? I don't see the point of hiding this from Robert. It could've even helped his friend to accept and move on.

Ned also loves Robert as a brother and he eventually realised that the only thing that kept him relatively sane is his memory of killing Rhaegar and "avenging" Lyanna. Robert defeating Rhaegar is like a 40 years old former jock remembering his glory days in high school. You can't tell him "btw, you were never good: the coach ordered everybody to let you win". You would destroy him, specially if that's the only thing they have. Whether you think he was right or not (I think he was not), Ned only wanted to protect Robert.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

No, he didn't. Here are three reasons why:

--It wasn't Egg who offended Lyonel, it was his son.

Egg made the marriage pack not Duncan.

--It wasn't as if Egg let Duncan get away with it without punishment. The Prince of Dragonflies was disinherited for marrying Jenny instead of the Baratheon girl. It wasn't as if there were no consequences.

Yada yada yada Duncan did what he wanted to do in the end.

--The Storm Lord wasn't the only LP offended. None of Egg's children other than Rhaelle went along with their arranged marriage... and guess which House got her? Gee, I wonder what her life was like...

Other than her father using her as an object because his own inability as both a parent and a King I don't see why Lyonel had to be bad for her. The fact that Egg used his only obedient child as he pleased proves how hypocritical he was. He should had either free all of them from their betrothals or made them wed who they supposed to.

No doubt, but i want to learn all the details in Dunk & Egg to judge better the situation... maybe Egg would've given Rhaelle´s hand to his son without a rebellion... but yes no conflict between Targs and Stags was EVER started by a Baratheon... it´s seems the Targs like to mess up with the Stags just for shits and giggles :dunno:

I agree. But it seems to me that the Targs like to mess up with everyone because they felt like it and that is exactly why the Targs were overthrown.

[The silver dragon]

C´mon folks, without Orys, Aegon would not be king of westeros... he was his only true friend, half-brother and more importantly the Overall Commander of his ground troops... he would not win Westeros just with his sisters and 3 dragons, it´s not enough...

Orys was awarded with what he deserved and Aegon would probably give him more if he asked...

Lyonel's rebellion might have been too much but we still have to read more about it... but Robert's?? Unless Jon gave both his "kids" heads to Aerys, it was bound to happen, and with 100% good reason for it

Edit: Regardind the topic, yeah it might have been difficult for Ned to tell his best friend that after her death... but why didn´t Lyanna spared an hour of her time to tell Robert... "i don´t love you, find another"... Bob with his pride would soon find another bride, he was LP and one of the most handsome guys in the kingdoms, and both would be happy... for the life of me, i can't see why not tell him... it's not like he would hammer her head in front of Ned and yell... "WHY YOU NO LOVE MEEEEE"

1.) ground troops did not win that war.

2.) it was enough to subdue the lords of the soon to be crown lands, enough to to cow the queen mother shara into submission of he vale.

enough to break harren, enough to win the field of fire and enough to make torren realize he was fucked.

all in all the three dragons were enough to rout any army and destroy any castle.

#aegon would still be king.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

all in all the three dragons were enough to rout any army and destroy any castle.

Dorne and Princess Meria say hi!

[Crippledtank]

1. Not substantiated by the textual evidence, sorry.

Hey, your crackpot is as good as mine, I guess... although there's no evidence in the story that Lyanna liked Robert. She was critical of his behavior at best.

2. Is everyone forgetting that Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen? He's 1/4 dragon himself.

No, he didn't. Here are three reasons why:

--It wasn't Egg who offended Lyonel, it was his son.

--It wasn't as if Egg let Duncan get away with it without punishment. The Prince of Dragonflies was disinherited for marrying Jenny instead of the Baratheon girl. It wasn't as if there were no consequences.

--The Storm Lord wasn't the only LP offended. None of Egg's children other than Rhaelle went along with their arranged marriage... and guess which House got her? Gee, I wonder what her life was like...

1. It's supported in text in TWOIAF that lyanna was ABDUCTED.

(I believe when we get more details it wit be so black and white but I get frustrated when people just say "lyanna happily went" without any evidence except ned acknowledging that Rhaegar wouldn't frequent brothels.

2. Yes but if you 4th cousin asked your father figure to kill you, you wouldn't just go "lol family first" not even sure why you brought that up

[myhousigilisthehousecat]

Oooooh there was a moment aGoT in the chapter where Ned and Robert are in the crypt together. They're talking about Lyanna and Ned says "Lyanna was...fond of flowers" with a big ominous pause like that, like he was considering finishing that sentence in a different way, like "just not that into you" or "wildly in love with Rhaegar"

[Annara Snow]

1. It's supported in text in TWOIAF that lyanna was ABDUCTED.

It's also supported in text in TWOIAF that the Others are nothing but a MYTH, that Rhaegar's children were murdered by either Aerys or Elia (who presumably went on to rape and kill herself), and that Robert's reign was the most GLORIOUS eva.

I believe when we get more details it wit be so black and white but I get frustrated when people just say "lyanna happily went" without any evidence except ned acknowledging that Rhaegar wouldn't frequent brothels.

There's more evidence than that. Like Ned saying Lyanna was wilful and had wolf blood and it lead her to an early grave. And Lyanna clutching the withered and dead blue roses as she was dying, the same flowers her room was full of, the same type of flowers Rhaegar once gave her when he crowned her QOLAB.

But hey, maybe Ned was just a victim-blaming, rape apologist asshole who thought his sister was responsible for getting kidnapped and raped, and that going to brothels is worse than being a rapist (even with his own sister as a victim). And maybe Lyanna just liked to keep remembrances of her dead kidnapper/rapist. After all, what's the evidence of Ned's opinion and Ned's memories compared to the evidence of Robert's belief and the official history by Maester Yandel?

[Winter's Knight]

Can we please drop the idea that RR was for Lyanna? Nobody went to war for her-hell Robert didn't even go to KL for her.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Can we please drop the idea that RR was for Lyanna? Nobody went to war for her-hell Robert didn't even go to KL for her.

We don't know, we have no idea what Rickard was planning but still, Lyanna and Rhaegar were those who created a chain of reaction that ended up at Rebellion.

[Winter's Knight]

We don't know, we have no idea what Rickard was planning but still, Lyanna and Rhaegar were those who created a chain of reaction that ended up at Rebellion.

Oh sure, but that doesn't mean anything.

Like say I flirt with a married woman at a bar, and her husband finds out, takes out a hit on her father, and her family then attack him in turn, causing a decade long feud that with civil blood makes civil hands unclean-it's still not my fault her husbnd acted in completely irrational manner even if it was my actions that set the whole thing off.

Wars are not Rube Goldberg machines.

[Dolorous22]

I don't see the point of hiding this from Robert. It could've even helped his friend to accept and move on.

Robert Baratheon's rage would of blinded him to all reason in my humble opinion. There's no telling how he'd react and personally think that it was best to let him 'believe' whatever he wanted and what he wanted was to villainize Rhaegar.

[Winter's Knight]

Robert Baratheon's rage would of blinded him to all reason in my humble opinion. There's no telling how he'd react and personally think that it was best to let him 'believe' whatever he wanted and what he wanted was to villainize Rhaegar.

Idk,I mean Robert already seems to know.

Rhaegar ... Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her.