[BOOK SPOILERS] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[The Kind Nihilist]

I think they love shock more than D&D than GRRM and GRRM mentions cannibalism how many times in ADWD? It is mentioned already in the prologue, a Bran chapter, Stannis army and the Frey pies.

So because they are D&D they would probably mention cannibalism.

The problem is however who would they put in the pies? I think they didn't cast any Frey, ... so I probably think it would not happen.

The very large possibility we would not get these quotes makes me enraged and :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

LOL. Amazing. Laughed. I think you find the "dodge"-look of Sansa. Something everybody was looking for but not a lot of people found it.

But really amazing. I would like more chapters of Brienne Thug.

Trust me, it took some time, had to go frame by frame...

Oh there's comedy gold this season in GoT... I expect to have 'Porne - Chapter 1: The Brothel's Bouncer' ready in a few days...

[Tijgy]

Those books were not particularly slow, but rightly in a sense, the calm before the storm. There was a lot more character study offered, how the pieces remaining playing affected the larger picture, motivation, some histories considered. After the constant war in previous books, a calm in the maelstrom, or the eye of the hurricane, that swept through Westeros, Essos.

DD have mucked up on certain settings, choosing, shock, nudity. Over showing some of those war ravaged, mentioned landscapes, rivers of blood, rumble, ruins, the consequences of war throughout the realms, mainly the Riverlands. Ignoring settings like the Ironmoot. Poverty, disease. Why her people cry to her as their mother, not as their savior. Ignoring certain politics the linked motivation behind the characters. Choosing descriptions of vulgarity over depth.

Some of the series staged attempts have looked so trivial, this episodes execution, season 4's ending, the hammiest of crucifixions, amongst many other attempts which have lost screen impact. Mance's burning he probably will have been gagged, but come on. Scaling down size, mainly armies, where CGI should have been adopted a lot more.

The bold one is indeed a pity because it was one of the reasons GRRM wrote the books. He wanted to show the cruelties, ... of war to his readers as a pacifists. That unlike many literature, tv, ... war is not something romantic but actually something very dreadful.

But still... my memory might desert me

Did they try to show the effects of the war on the common folk during the story line of Arya and Hound in season four. (I really don't remember anything what happened to them in S4.)

And season 2 or 3 you had the scene of Brienne and Jaime attacked by the mean Stark Soldiers (they are so named in the In Memoriam video; I am really upset about Baratheon Soldier # 680 ;-) No really, I get tears every time I watch this from the moment they show Rodrik Cassel and Maester Luwin; they should have given more time to Yoren)

Trust me, it took some time, had to go frame by frame...

Oh there's comedy gold this season in GoT... I expect to have 'Porne - Chapter 1: The Brothel's Bouncer' ready in a few days...

LOL, Amazing work!

[Paid Debt Lannister]

I haven't checked the casting threads... Is there any news of actors from the Riverlands/Iron Isles arcs returning or being cast for this series?

As far as I followed the Casting thread, there was no news of Riverlands, Ironborn or BwB castings at all. No news of Michelle Fairley either 😭

[StepStark]

Film Critic Hulk did a great review on Feast. Here's what he had to say about Jaime's arc which is pretty accurate and seems to explain just why the writers have him going Dorne to actually do something worthwhile instead of going to the Riverlands where he barely does anything at all:

That is most probably the worst review of anything I ever read. This Hulk person too often seems like D&D and I wouldn't be surprised at all if D&D in fact read this "review" and took at as the gospel. And the review is so appalling that I think everyone should read it and see where D&D are most probably coming from with their misunderstanding of the material they adapt:

https://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/tag/brienne-of-tarth/

In the review Hulk is in fact inconsistent with himself all the time. For example he says Cersei's arc should have been condensed from ten to for chapters but Hulk doesn't understand that practically means that some of the things would have to be told about instead of shown. But when he comes to Sansa he starts attacking Martin for telling Littlefinger's plan instead of showing it. In fact what he hated for Sansa he wanted for Cersei. And than there are some things he simply doesn't understand at all like that Jaqen is the one who is now Pate or that Greyjoys are very much present for the last third of the book but not directly instead we are being told about their actions and even more importantly it drives Loras actions. And he never understood any of themes Martin established in any of the books. Hulk's idea is that all of that was simply for the shock and nothing else which really is why he likes the show more than the books most probably because D&D looks like agree with him all the way. And whats also funny is that all those writers that Hulk said he liked, like Joyce and Faulkner and Pynchon, he says something like it is ok when they do what Martin is doing but it is not ok when Martin is doing the same thing, and he says like they do that for their themes, but Hulk really missed all of Martin's themes in all four books so he really isn't someone who is to be believed about anything about that. And when he talks about the first three books its obvious he doesn't understand the building up at all. All he wants is action action action and nothing else. And then at the end he says that the show has bigger emotional impact then the books which is the most ridiculous. Is it possible that tv critics think this way too and that is why they keep hailing the show even now?

[Duckface]

Little bit off topic here

In the second trailer called The Wheel we see a lot of masked people (Sons of the Harpy). Why are they so many and why are they openly confronting Unsullied? It will be interesting to watch how it plays off. Here is the link just in case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Bo89m2f6g

[Johnsmith]

The bold one is indeed a pity because it was one of the reasons GRRM wrote the books. He wanted to show the cruelties, ... of war to his readers as a pacifists. That unlike many literature, tv, ... war is not something romantic but actually something very dreadful.

But still... my memory might desert me

Did they try to show the effects of the war on the common folk during the story line of Arya and Hound in season four. (I really don't remember anything what happened to them in S4.)

And season 2 or 3 you had the scene of Brienne and Jaime attacked by the mean Stark Soldiers (they are so named in the In Memoriam video; I am really upset about Baratheon Soldier # 680 ;-) No really, I get tears every time I watch this from the moment they show Rodrik Cassel and Maester Luwin; they should have given more time to Yoren)

LOL, Amazing work!

The Ayra / Hound sceen from last season, shock value showing the Hound's nature, more reasons why Arya would build up. The farmer had helped to later, because there are wolves vs sheep. Although it did show a ruined shack, a poor farmer open to ambush, anarchy, as the result of war. Although this must have caused that region to up and disappear. I think better sceens would have been from previous seasons with the Brotherhood.

The point largely is shock and nudity over the depth of the literature. Often also choosing vulgarity as offered description depicting characters.

[Ran]

FCH is often on point with his comments about film, but you're right, as an admirer of a lot of his film reviews I found him really working extra hard to force GRRM into a pigeon hole. He admires him solely as a "narrative daredevil", and if he isn't doing that (says FCH) he sucks. Which is silly. He insists on GRRM producing the exact same story he produced before, which (as someone suggests in comments) seems incredibly "Hollywood" of him. So it's no surprise he thinks the show is so great, when it's paring away theme and character nuance and depth and instead focusing itself on plot momentum. It does feel passingly strange for him to name himself a fan of some great literary authors and then seem entirely unwilling to engage with AFfC on that level.

One notices that the initial supportive comments had him responding with typical enthusiasm... and then later, when people start giving him some serious pushback (along the same lines as you do, StepStark), he disappears entirely. A shame.

[Tijgy]

Little bit off topic here

In the second trailer called The Wheel we see a lot of masked people (Sons of the Harpy). Why are they so many and why are they openly confronting Unsullied? It will be interesting to watch how it plays off. Here is the link just in case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Bo89m2f6g

Why? I don't know. Because they are more daring than their book counterparts of because they were masks.

I understand why they use the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons and Tyrells from a trailer perspective but if Dany uses it her storyline I believe it makes no sense why she also mention Tyrell.

First of all, how would she know the Tyrells are one of the major factions? And if she mentions the major factions and know what they are, why would she use the Starks?

I think it would make more sense if she would mention the houses who "betrayed" the Targ. Those are indeed Baratheon, Starks, lannisters and .... Arryn. Not the Tyrells; they supported the Targ, no?

Edit: But I should probably wait to criticize (or admire) this before I see it in which context Dany says it.

@ JohnSmith thanks be clarifying it about Hound, ...

[Shinjinobrave]

Right, busy week, what did I miss? Have we summoned a shadow-baby to take care of D&D yet? :leer:

[Julia Martell]

Right, busy week, what did I miss? Have we summoned a shadow-baby to take care of D&D yet? :leer:

Watch that line you’re toeing, my friend...

Yeah, I think the consensus is: We didn’t like this episode very much.

[Steelborn]

In the review Hulk is in fact inconsistent with himself all the time. For example he says Cersei's arc should have been condensed from ten to for chapters but Hulk doesn't understand that practically means that some of the things would have to be told about instead of shown. But when he comes to Sansa he starts attacking Martin for telling Littlefinger's plan instead of showing it. In fact what he hated for Sansa he wanted for Cersei. And than there are some things he simply doesn't understand at all like that Jaqen is the one who is now Pate or that Greyjoys are very much present for the last third of the book but not directly instead we are being told about their actions and even more importantly it drives Loras actions. And he never understood any of themes Martin established in any of the books. Hulk's idea is that all of that was simply for the shock and nothing else which really is why he likes the show more than the books most probably because D&D looks like agree with him all the way. And whats also funny is that all those writers that Hulk said he liked, like Joyce and Faulkner and Pynchon, he says something like it is ok when they do what Martin is doing but it is not ok when Martin is doing the same thing, and he says like they do that for their themes, but Hulk really missed all of Martin's themes in all four books so he really isn't someone who is to be believed about anything about that. And when he talks about the first three books its obvious he doesn't understand the building up at all. All he wants is action action action and nothing else. And then at the end he says that the show has bigger emotional impact then the books which is the most ridiculous. Is it possible that tv critics think this way too and that is why they keep hailing the show even now?

You were spot on, my friend.

[StepStark]

FCH is often on point with his comments about film, but you're right, as an admirer of a lot of his film reviews I found him really working extra hard to force GRRM into a pigeon hole. He admires him solely as a "narrative daredevil", and if he isn't doing that (says FCH) he sucks. Which is silly. He insists on GRRM producing the exact same story he produced before, which (as someone suggests in comments) seems incredibly "Hollywood" of him. So it's no surprise he thinks the show is so great, when it's paring away theme and character nuance and depth and instead focusing itself on plot momentum. It does feel passingly strange for him to name himself a fan of some great literary authors and then seem entirely unwilling to engage with AFfC on that level.

One notices that the initial supportive comments had him responding with typical enthusiasm... and then later, when people start giving him some serious pushback (along the same lines as you do, StepStark), he disappears entirely. A shame.

I didn't even see the comments until you mentioned them but yes it really looks like Hulk is much more eager to answer comments that approve his review then comments that don't. And one more thing he keeps repeating how nothing happens in AFFC but even what he wrote about plot in AFFC is clearly much much more then "nothing happens". Hulk certainly has the strange definition of nothing.

[LadySoftheart]

Hulk certainly has the strange definition of nothing.

"Nothing is just nothing." :D

As for "nothing happens" - I'd be more convinced by this argument even though I adore Jaime's and Brienne's arcs in AFfC if there wasn't quite so many "nothing happens" scenes in the show itself. (Give me a dozen chapters of Jaime's memories of the past in exchange for one interminable beetle-scene, yes?)

[The Prince of Newcastle]

It really pains me to see Davos doing nothing in the show vs his more proactive and way more interesting role in the books and I really really like Liam as Davos .

No Manderlys sucks big time.

Frey Pies? Does anyone think it 'll happen?I mean the showrunners love shock, cannibalism is very shocking.

Sansa is going to feed those 3 girls Ramsey had to him and his dad I reckon.

After some rape cos DRAMA

[Prince Lou of House Reed]

Edmure went to go live on a farm, it's okay!

[Daphne of House Vakarian]

Sansa is going to feed those 3 girls Ramsey had to him and his dad I reckon.

After some rape cos DRAMA

That could be possible .

OR We could get Bolton Pies, since the Freys have seemed to disappear into the ether.

[The Agency of Sansa Stark]

I was disappointed in the way Ellaria was portrayed. They should have made her more fiery and vindictive.

Loved her thinly veiled threat to Doran, showing him for how weak he really is.

[Dofs]

Like several others here, the whitewashing of Cersei is really starting to affect my enjoyment of the show. It's been happening from the start, but at first I understood and liked the attempts at making her less one-dimensionally evil. However, now other characters and the world itself are being rewritten purely to make her more sympathetic, and that's going too far for me. For my own amusement, I'm making a list of all the ways the show has made Cersei less ruthless/cruel/amoral/evil, going back to the start. I know I'll forget some, so if anyone remembers an instance I missed, please point it out. While I thought some of the earlier things actually improved her, much of the later stuff is just ridiculous IMO.

• Genuinely loves her children, instead of thinking of them as ways for her to wield power.

Recognizes how awful Joffrey is, doesn't stupidly hate Tommen for not being as 'bold' as Joffrey, cares deeply about Myrcella.

Far less emphasis on her having sex with men other than Jaime.

Her indifference/lack of concern about Sansa's feelings is replaced with seemingly genuine concern; she hasn't ranted about how 'wonderful' she was to Sansa.

Didn't have many of the moments from ACOK/ASOS showing her poor political skills (scenes which foreshadowed how awful she'd be as queen). Instead of her nearly wrecking morale at Blackwater by ordering Joffrey out of battle, he chooses to run away himself.

She ordered the alchemists to make massive quantities of wildfire, which proves essential to winning Blackwater. Tyrion, who came up with the idea in the books, is initially doubtful of the idea in the show.

Cleared of trying to assassinate Tyrion during Blackwater; Joffrey did it.

Didn't have Robert's bastard children hunted and executed; Joffrey did it.

Lannister gold mines have run out (how did Tywin not prepare for this? How has word not gotten out about that?), presumably so that it won't be her fault when the Iron Bank doesn't get paid.

She doesn't hold Jaime's injury in contempt; she even kisses his fake hand at the end of season 4.

She doesn't drive Jaime away with her behavior (he goes to Dorne to follow her wishes); she is portrayed in the right for criticising him for not being involved in their children's lives (i.e. the sane thing) and not protecting them (how are Tommen and Myrcella's situations his fault?). Then again, considering the show meant for us to be impressed by her threatening to go public with the incest...

Kevan goes from a rational observer pointing out her massive inadequacies to a sexist caricature.

She hasn't stacked the small council with incompetent toadies. Certainly she isn't going to trust a ridiculously expensive fleet to someone because he's good looking.

Taena Merryweather presumably isn't in the season, meaning Cersei isn't going to fully trust someone who is almost certainly spying on her.

Cersei's extreme distrust of Margaery looks a lot more sane seeing how this season is playing up Margaery's ruthlessness and playing down the kindness.

Nice list, but there are some inaccuracies, if I remember everything correctly. For the bold:

1) Cersei ordered Joffrey to go back in the show as well.

2) It was Cersei's idea to use wildfire in the books as well, she was just doing nothing to actually prepare soldiers to use it.

3) Cersei doesn't really drive Jaime away to Riverlands with her behavior (if that's what you meant), she just ordered him to go there and Jaime actually didn't want to leave.

4) She kinda did stack the council with incompetent toadies in the show, didn't she?

And you forgot one of the most vile, basically Ramsay-level things she was doing in FFC. Sending people to Qyburn for no reason.

[Le Cygne]

Jaime wanted to "winkle Tommen from her clutches before the boy became another Joffrey" although he reflected that he liked being away. Before he left, they had some very nasty exchanges, something had to give...

Ha ha ha, Gwendoline Christie thinks Brienne is "the most accomplished swords-person in the whole of Westeros" (and the fact that the Hound was weakened by the bite is never mentioned again):

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/tv/game-of-thrones-gwendoline-christie-talks-briennes-journey-in-season-5/

[teemo]

What happened to the Blackfish? Have we seen him since the RW? I can't remember.