Seli Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Charles Stross has pointed out it is quite likely that without stretching the rules too much the whole Discworld 'series' can be nominated for a Hugo as a single completed work. Although I personally think that is probably breaking the spirit of the rules a bit too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjax451 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Charles Stross has pointed out it is quite likely that without stretching the rules too much the whole Discworld 'series' can be nominated for a Hugo as a single completed work. Although I personally think that is probably breaking the spirit of the rules a bit too far. Ugh. I was not happy about the campaign that led to a similar nomination for Wheel of Time. Best novel should be best novel. I love Pratchett, but I don't think he would have been happy with a nomination for Discworld as a completed work, or would have agreed to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Ugh. I was not happy about the campaign that led to a similar nomination for Wheel of Time. Best novel should be best novel. I love Pratchett, but I don't think he would have been happy with a nomination for Discworld as a completed work, or would have agreed to it. Wheel of Time at least told a single story arc, so it in my mind fits the idea behind the rule. Discworld on the other hand doesn't seem to fit that. And I also don't think Pratchett would have been really happy about the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 This is a terrible idea. Most Discworld novels have nothing in common except the setting. Completely different characters and plotlines. What's next - let's nominate all 1,000 (or whatever number they are by now) Star Wars novels for best Novel? Yes, I know Star Wars novels aren't as good as Pratchett's, but they are just as eligible by this logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I'm reading The Mechanical now. It is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Nominating Discworld would raise an interesting technical point: if you can't nominate a multi-book work where one part has been nominated, what about one where one part was nominated but the nomination was declined? Does the declined nomination count? In any case, the relevant bit of the WSFS constitution is: 3.2.6: Works appearing in a series are eligible as individual works, but the series as a whole is not eligible. However, a work appearing in a number of parts shall be eligible for the year of the final part. It was stretching a point to say that the Wheel of Time was a 'work appearing in a number of parts' rather than a 'series'. It would be absurd to claim that Discworld was. It's a series, or actually, a collection of different series with a common setting. There's no over-arching plot, no unifying theme, nothing that fits with the notion of it being a single work published in parts. If the Hugo committee were to accept a nomination for Discworld under the above, they would essentially be invalidating the first sentence, because they would be accepting that any series at all qualifies as a 'work appearing in a number of parts' and the distinction drawn in the rule as written is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjax451 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Listen - I actually think the Hugos should have an award for completed series. I think it would acknowledge the difficulty of writing a complete series of books. It would be tricky how you define it, I suppose and I'm sure there are people who have better thoughts on this than I do (nevermind that changes to the Hugo awards are notoriously difficult to accomplish due to the way the rules are set). But Discworld isn't a single work broken into parts. Even the linked books (Witches, the "Making" books, the Watch, etc.) aren't a single work broken into parts. I'd oppose a similar nomination for the Culture novels of Banks. They're clearly not a single work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Listen - I actually think the Hugos should have an award for completed series. I think it would acknowledge the difficulty of writing a complete series of books. It would be tricky how you define it, I suppose and I'm sure there are people who have better thoughts on this than I do (nevermind that changes to the Hugo awards are notoriously difficult to accomplish due to the way the rules are set). But Discworld isn't a single work broken into parts. Even the linked books (Witches, the "Making" books, the Watch, etc.) aren't a single work broken into parts. I'd oppose a similar nomination for the Culture novels of Banks. They're clearly not a single work. There was a suggestion going round earlier this year for a Best Saga category, but most of the authors I saw tweeting about it were against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjax451 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 There was a suggestion going round earlier this year for a Best Saga category, but most of the authors I saw tweeting about it were against it. Yeah, I saw that as well...it's a non-starter for most authors and I understand why - it favors established authors over newer ones, it favors novels over short fiction writers, etc. Still...there has to be a way to honor writers who do both short ficition and stand-alone work, as well as people who do outstanding work within a saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Yeah, I saw that as well...it's a non-starter for most authors and I understand why - it favors established authors over newer ones, it favors novels over short fiction writers, etc. I'd say the opposite; moving some books by established authors out of Best Novel into Saga would open up more room for newer authors, and having two categories for novel-or-longer and three for shorter fiction is hardly unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Well, I plan to nominate this post I'm typing right now. Meta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Re-posting some stuff from before the Great Wipe in the hopes that it will re-invigorate discussion:David Selig Council MemberMembers10,210 postsPosted 23 September 2015 - 04:51 AMAliette de Bodard's novella The Citadel of Weeping Pearls, which was published in the latest issue of Asimov's, is really good. Pretty long too, 33K words, almost a short novel. Well worth buying this issues for it alone. Here's a free excerpt - http://www.asimovs.c...story-excerpt1/ I read Penric's Demon few days ago. I wasn't particularly impressed, frankly. Bujold is always a nice read, but this one really seemed a minor effort. Very nice premise, but it remains underdeveloped, and for a 100 page novella very little actually happens in it. It feels like the first few chapters of a novel, not a standalone work. But, of course, since it's Bujold, that doesn't matter much, it will be nominated no matter what. Edited by David Selig, 23 September 2015 - 04:57 AM.#114 Maester Llama Hedge KnightMembers312 postsPosted 23 September 2015 - 05:19 PMWell, is that really the case though? Bujold's fans have shown that they're pretty discerning in the past, no? In that they've gotten her stellar stuff onto the shortlist but not her stuff that's still fun but less substantial, I mean. Cetaganda wasn't nominated; I don't remember Diplomatic Immunity being nominated though I might be wrong about that; no Sharing Knife novel was nominated and neither was The Hallowed Hunt. I grant you that people might be more inclined to auto-vote for Bujold now that her new work is rarer though, I guess. Based on a first reading I feel very good about The Fifth Season. It does just sort of stop, but outside of that it's very very strong. I'm curious to see how / whether people take to Ian Mcdonald's new book Luna: New Moon, his first novel for adults in five years -- there's a new Ian Mcdonald novel, people! It is out right now! Celebrations!#115 David Selig Council MemberMembers10,210 postsPosted 23 September 2015 - 06:25 PMMaester Llama, on 23 Sept 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:Well, is that really the case though? Bujold's fans have shown that they're pretty discerning in the past, no? In that they've gotten her stellar stuff onto the shortlist but not her stuff that's still fun but less substantial, I mean. Cetaganda wasn't nominated; I don't remember Diplomatic Immunity being nominated though I might be wrong about that; no Sharing Knife novel was nominated and neither was The Hallowed Hunt. I grant you that people might be more inclined to auto-vote for Bujold now that her new work is rarer though, I guess.Well, they nominated the utterly mediocre Cryoburn and Captain Vorpatril's Alliance, the two latest novels of hers. I suspect The Sharing Knife books weren't nominated because of "romance cooties", which shouldn't be an issue now. Edited by David Selig, 23 September 2015 - 07:15 PM.#116 Darth Richard II Council MemberMembers3,416 postsPosted 23 September 2015 - 06:54 PMOr icky fantasy cooties.#117 voodooqueen126 Council MemberMembers3,215 postsPosted 23 September 2015 - 11:46 PMSo I finished Jo Walton's "The Just City" and couldn't sleep until I read "Philosopher Kings".It was so good and incredibly thoughtful and intellectual with fascinating characters.So now I am divided between Naomi Novik's Uprooted and Jo Walton's Just City.#118 Xray the Enforcer Claps on the Ones and ThreesBoard Moderators25,281 postsPosted 28 September 2015 - 07:14 AMFinished two novellas. Binti by Nnedi Okorafor was great at the beginning, but just totally went off the rails at the end.Witches of Lychford by Paul Cornell isn't much for plot (although I was quite charmed by the true banality of evil in this case), but I loved one of the main characters. The other two main characters suffered a bit in comparison, but they both managed to have interesting back stories and internal conflicts. Of the two, Witches of Lychford might get a Hugo nom from me. While I wish that the story hadn't been sewn up quite as neatly as it was, I would totally read a novel-length work with these characters. I really wanted to like Binti, but the end was so ham-fisted and cliche that I can't. And while the protagonist was interesting and the mid-section of the book pretty intense, I can't imagine trying to wade through a novel's worth of it. Edited by Xray the Enforcer, 28 September 2015 - 07:14 AM.#119 David Selig Council MemberMembers10,210 postsPosted 28 September 2015 - 10:48 AMBinti was pretty disappointing to me. Strong start and the heroine was quite interesting, but it gradually become worse and the ending was just terrible. The plot made very little sense. Spoiler Witches of Lychford was a lot better, but still not sure it's award worthy. Overall I am a bit disappointed with the novellas from Tor.com's Publishing so far. Hopefully K. J. Parker's novella, coming up next week, would be awesome. Edited by David Selig, 28 September 2015 - 12:12 PM.#120 Xray the Enforcer Claps on the Ones and ThreesBoard Moderators25,281 postsPosted 28 September 2015 - 12:04 PMDavid Selig, on 28 Sept 2015 - 4:48 PM, said:Binti was pretty disappointing to me. Strong start and the heroine was quite interesting, but it gradually become worse and the ending was just terrible. The plot made very little sense.The aliens managed to somehow board the ship our heroine was travelling on (how do you even do that during an interstellar travel?) without any of the passengers noticing it. Then her quasi-magical tool kept her alive somehow. And in the end nobody cared that the Meduse slaughtered a whole ship of people, they got what they wanted and that was it, nobody cared about the dead. sagewich SquireMembers212 postsPosted 29 September 2015 - 09:27 PMDavid Selig, on 25 Apr 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:Looking for this first thing tomorrow #122 HelenaExMachina Knight of the Pictionary TableForum Moderators8,298 postsPosted 02 October 2015 - 06:35 AMFinished Sorceror to the Crown, which is quite comfortably joining my nomination list. Doesnt seem to have had a lot of mention on the board but I thought it beautifully written with a nicely driven plot, interesting characters and handled the sexism/racism against the protagonists consistently throughout. A few minor issues but nothing i felt particularly hurt the novel.Next month i really ought to read so short fiction#123 Maltaran Campanological MastermindMembers19,167 postsPosted 02 October 2015 - 06:46 AMI'm definitely nominating Luna: New Moon, and I'm currently halfway through The Fifth Season, which will probably also go on my list.#124 Darth Richard II Council MemberMembers3,416 postsPosted 02 October 2015 - 04:17 PMHelenaExMachina, on 02 Oct 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:I approve this message!#125 Xray the Enforcer Claps on the Ones and ThreesBoard Moderators25,281 postsPosted 02 October 2015 - 05:20 PMcan you guys describe more about the book? What I've read online so far does not inspire confidence, and leads me to believe there be a fair bit of cliche in the story and character treatment? Would love some more info to make an informed decision.#126 HelenaExMachina Knight of the Pictionary TableForum Moderators8,298 postsPosted 02 October 2015 - 06:37 PMXray the Enforcer, on 02 Oct 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:I can try. Is there anything in particular you would like described in some detail?#127 Maltaran Campanological MastermindMembers19,167 postsPosted 03 October 2015 - 03:57 PMIf The Martian doesn't win BDP Long Form I will eat my hat.#128 williamjm Council MemberMembers7,547 postsPosted 03 October 2015 - 05:26 PMMaltaran, on 03 Oct 2015 - 9:57 PM, said:I'm not sure I'd make a statement like that until we've found out whether Star Wars will be any good. If it's even vaguely approaching the quality of the original trilogy then I suspect the power of collective nostalgia would mean it beats anything else even if the other films were better.#129 Xray the Enforcer Claps on the Ones and ThreesBoard Moderators25,281 postsPosted 03 October 2015 - 05:29 PMHelenaExMachina, on 03 Oct 2015 - 12:37 AM, said: Mostly concerned with the characters -- protagonists and antagonists. Are they plausible and fallible? Do they undergo real development (for good or ill) logically? Finally -- and this will be a deal-killer -- I see many people compare this to Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. How close is that semblance? Because I hated that book. Edited by Xray the Enforcer, 03 October 2015 - 05:49 PM.#130 Maltaran Campanological MastermindMembers19,167 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 04:17 AMwilliamjm, on 03 Oct 2015 - 11:26 PM, said: Oops. I'd forgot that was due this year, I was thinking the main competition would be Avengers.#131 HelenaExMachina Knight of the Pictionary TableForum Moderators8,298 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 05:20 AMXray the Enforcer, on 03 Oct 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:Ok, I'll try and answer the best I can. Although I can't help with your last question, since I haven't read Jinathan Strange and Mr. Norrell.I personally found the protagonists plausible, yes, and thought the book managed to keep the difficulties resulting from their gender/race running throughout the book in a way that felt believable for the setting that was used. It was, on occasion, done in a bit of a heavy-handed fashion, but more often than not the heavy-handed approach seemed intentional as a means of being humourous. Both protagonists have their share of flaws' and I would say yes, they do undergo some growth throughout the book. It's not a huge change, but I would say they both do. Antagonists is admittedly one of the weaker points of the books, mostly I think, because the issues a more a series of problems that are all related in some way (the various threads are eventually brought together in a satisfactory way). There is one, maybe two, that you could call main antagonists, and they get some development, but I was hoping for something a bit more.My favourite parts were probably the setting and understated humour throughout. The setting was Britain with magic, but done in a way that considered how that would relate to the relationship with government and politics, etc. Then there was the exploration of a London Debutante season, which I really rather enjoyed.I'm not really sure how helpful I've been, I'm generally not great at this sort of thing. If there is a sample anywhere you can read I might advise you try that, because I was impressed with the book more or less from the outset.#132 HelenaExMachina Knight of the Pictionary TableForum Moderators8,298 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 07:03 PMWasn't entirely sure where I should post this, but for anyone who enjoyed House of Shattered Wings by Aliette de Bodard she has some short stories in the same world for free on her website http://aliettedeboda...ngstars-shadow/plus a novella that is £0.99. And she is working on a sequel too, which I was pleased to hear.#133 David Selig Council MemberMembers10,210 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 07:08 PM^ The novella is pretty good, I read it a few days ago.#134 HelenaExMachina Knight of the Pictionary TableForum Moderators8,298 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 07:18 PMDavid Selig, on 05 Oct 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:Thanks, I'm going to give it a try I think. Having a read through the short stories now. That's the thing really, I enjoyed The House of Shattered Wings, but was more interested in what came before. Well, problem solved!#135 Darth Richard II Council MemberMembers3,416 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 07:48 PMSorcerer to the Crown is written in the same style as Strange and Norell/Souless/Austin erc.#136 Xray the Enforcer Claps on the Ones and ThreesBoard Moderators25,281 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 07:51 PMDarth Richard II, on 05 Oct 2015 - 01:48 AM, said: OK, but I did not at all feel that Strange/Norrell had any of the wit/brains/sarcasm of Austen. Like, it was so far below the quality of thought and prose of Austen as to not even be in the sport, let alone the same ballpark. So... Edited by Xray the Enforcer, 04 October 2015 - 07:52 PM.#137 Darth Richard II Council MemberMembers3,416 postsPosted 04 October 2015 - 07:55 PMActually I have yet to read Strange. I just know that type of prose turns some people off.#138 David Selig Council MemberMembers10,210 postsPosted 09 October 2015 - 06:41 PMLuna: First Moon by Ian McDonald. Really strong novel, I praised it a lot in the October reading thread. An additional plus is that it would probably make some of the Ultralibertarian weirdos among the Puppies mad since it shows what a terrible place for 95% of the population such a society would be. And is much better than Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, which has a somewhat similar premise. Novellette suggestion - All of the People in Your Party Have Died by Robin Wasserman.Yep. I didn't even want to get into all the things I didn't like about the story, but you've hit a number of them in that spoiler. I'm actually getting kinda mad just thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Can you edit that at all and remove profile pictures etc?On topic, not read any eligible stuff lately except The Rising, sequel to the Mechanical. Out of curiousity, can two books from the ssme author and series be nominated in the same year? Because both books have been released in 2015 (and both were hugo worthy imo though ymmv) and i was curious if there were any rules for this. And, out of the two, I thought The Mechanical the one most deserving of recognition. My list for best novel is at present ( not in preferential order, that is too hard to call!)1) The Fifth Season (which i actually think has a good chance of at least being nominated)2) Fool's Quest (though this is probably just my Hobb fanaticism)3) The Mechanical4) Sorceror to the Crown (which few others seem to like, oh well)5) I dont read much/any sci fi, so i fully expect to not have read many of the final nominees Has anyone got any predictions yet? Based on both merit of work and opinions expressed on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Sorcerer to the Crown should win all the awards, dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 On topic, not read any eligible stuff lately except The Rising, sequel to the Mechanical. Out of curiousity, can two books from the ssme author and series be nominated in the same year? Because both books have been released in 2015 (and both were hugo worthy imo though ymmv) and i was curious if there were any rules for this.I think it would be allowed, I'm not sure if that particular combination has ever happened but there have been cases of the same author with multiple nominations in the same category (can't think of any for the same series) and the TV nominations often have multiple episodes from the same season of Doctor Who a particular show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 My list is currently (and in no particular order of preference)The MechanicalLunaFifth SeasonNemesis GamesAncillary Mercy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Llama Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Re the question of two works from the same series / author making the shortlist, I'm no rules expert but I agree I can't see a reason why it isn't in theory possible in the novel category. It happened in I believe the short story nominations recently, with two works by Seanan McGuire, so it's not exclusively a best dramatic presentation thing by any means. What I don't think would be allowed in the case of Tregillis' Alchemy Wars is for the two books released thus far to be nominated together as one work, because for that to happen -- as in the case of Connie Willis' Blackout / All Clear a few years ago, which won -- the volumes have to be considered to make up a complete work, at least that's my understanding, and of course this is only two thirds of one since there's still one Alchemy Wars novel to come. I still think Stephenson's Seveneves is probably safely on the list, and while it wouldn't be my choice I'm okay with this, because it has parts that are really stellar. I agree that Fifth Season has a shot, which I'm very stoked about -- it's still almost certainly on my top five list -- and, though it's not in a subgenre that the Hugos generally seem to favour, Uprooted is popular enough that I think it might have a shot too, which makes me similarly happy. I wouldn't be surprised if Ancillary Mercy ends up with a third nomination for Leckie, though I think The Dark Forest earning a second nomination for Liu and Liu is even more likely [I haven't read the latter yet because Three-Body, while I see how it's quality, wasn't really my jam, but people seem to dig it.] I'm undecided on the rest of my list, though Liu's Grace of Kings is lingering with me a lot more than I expected, I admit [I may be totally misreading and I wouldn't bet on it but I think this might actually have an outside shot, because it's evolutionary and it's good / unique and people love them some Ken Liu.] The Water Knife is powerful, well-composed work, but I'm kind of hesitant because I'm not sure how much I actually *like* it. Robinson's Aurora is a book of two or three wonderful characters surrounded by talking cardboard heads, awash in a sea of textbook summary punctuated by moments -- some of them lengthy -- of incandescently good writing. Oh, Walton's The Just City is great with fewer caveats; might go for that. There's an embarrassment of choice, and I still have a number of big books to go. I can't quite love The Mechanical as much as some of y'all do even though I think Tregillis is great, because I found a lot of the secondary characters pretty flat and it took too long for me to become emotionally invested, which wasn't a problem I had with Tregillis' Milkweed books. However, I still found a lot to like about it and am optimistic about the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Valley Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 My list is currently (and in no particular order of preference)The MechanicalLunaFifth SeasonNemesis GamesAncillary MercyAncillary Mercy was awesome. I just got the Dark Forest and I am very happy that I'll be able to break that open this weekend. A couple of reviews from Chinese readers suggest that it outpaces Three Body Problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Godsgrace Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 At this moment my list is: Ancillary MercySevenevesThe Water KnifeNemesis GamesThe Dark Forest but I still see at my TBR list some books which may possibly make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 So while looking around to see what might be favourites to get a nomination I cle across This spreadsheet which has a list of many eligible works for nominations. Thought it might be handy for those like me who struggle to keep straight what they have read (or watched, since I notice some stuff in both of and SF I could happily nominate) that is actually eligible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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