NFL Draft: Every pick is a Pro Bowler!

[Jace, Extat]

You guys are gonna give my LoveRock an aneurism.

[lancerman]

It's totally within his right not to turn over his cell phone. It also makes him look shady as hell. Though in fairness, he's looked that way ever since his awkward press conference when this whole thing broke.

Also Brady is part of the organization, no? If Kraft intended to make good on "cooperating fully", he'd compel Brady to do so. I remember all the bluster put out by Kraft about how he'd demand an apology from the league if proven innocent. Feel like if anyone should be apologizing, it's him.

The report specifically goes out of it's way to absolve Kraft, Belichick, and the rest of the organization. It makes it very apparent that if something happened it was between McNally and Jastremski and that Brady might have been "generally aware". Which according to the report is based off Brady having an issue with overinflated balls earlier in the season. So there is a giant assumption of what he was generally aware of.

"We do not believe that the evidence establishes that any other Patriots personnel participated in or had knowledge of the violation of the Playing Rules or the deliberate effort to circumvent the rules described in this Report. In particular, we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated."

As far as Brady with his cell phone. He's a famous high profile celebrity who could have any of number of reasons for his agent and lawyer to tell him not give his phone to an investigator who has free range to publish his texts in a publically released document. He owns stocks in companies, has conversation with famous friends, is orchestrating endorsement deals, has personal matters, etc whatever. Hell he could even have a girl on the side or something for all we know.

So it's two equipment guys and one player who was "more probable than not generally aware" of that those guys were doing something.

[lancerman]

I keep seeing Pat's fans site that rule, and they are incorrect. The rule states that breaking the equipment tampering rule will result in a fine including, but not limited to 25k.

Well it's more the fact that it's an extremely low amount to specify, and if we go by precendents the last team that got flat out caught red handed (whereas there is no direct evidence here, just Wells making assumptions based off a lot of texts which he even admits to not having full context of) got essentially a warning with no punishment. And most instances have resulted in similar low scale punishments.

The 6-8 game rumor is several magnitudes higher than any precedents or written guidelines set forth.

[dbunting]

Dear Lord this is just ridiculous. Many QB's have said they do the same thing with balls, that it's not an advantage thing but a comfort level. His stats prove that it didn't give him an advantage. Slap him on the wrist if you have to and move on. If this was whoever plays QB for the Texans or Oakland no one would care and the story would have died last season. Treat everyone the same.

[lancerman]

Dear Lord this is just ridiculous. Many QB's have said they do the same thing with balls, that it's not an advantage thing but a comfort level. His stats prove that it didn't give him an advantage. Slap him on the wrist if you have to and move on. If this was whoever plays QB for the Texans or Oakland no one would care and the story would have died last season. Treat everyone the same.

See the problem is if you do that everyone's going to say, "see the league goes out of their way to protect the Patriots and the golden boy".

[Reny of Storms End]

Dear Lord this is just ridiculous. Many QB's have said they do the same thing with balls, that it's not an advantage thing but a comfort level. His stats prove that it didn't give him an advantage. Slap him on the wrist if you have to and move on. If this was whoever plays QB for the Texans or Oakland no one would care and the story would have died last season. Treat everyone the same.

Couldn't have anything to do with it happening during the AFC Championship game right? That couldn't be the reason this is a bigger deal than if a Texan or Oakland QB did it, whose teams missed the playoffs? No it's because Roger Goodell, the National Football League, and somehow the entire media industry dislike the New England Patriots.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I'm kind of enjoying some of the speculation regarding how this clusterfuck got started. One of the stories involves John Harbaugh listening in to Brady's postgame press conference. Apparently, the bit where Brady said "Maybe those guys gotta study the rulebook and figure it out" really honked Harbaugh off, and that resulted in him tipping Pagano off regarding the balls.

[lancerman]

Doubtful. Harbaugh went to bat for Belichick at the Pro Bowl, saying "no matter what happens he's still the greatest coach of our generation". Also Belichick was the one who suggested him to the Ravens. People buy into to much with these elaborate theories.

Regardless, I think we have a good idea that whatever happened the Colts had good reason to suspect something and tip off the league. It's just funny because reports are coming out that the Colts are pissed at the NFL for letting them play the first half with underinflated balls.

Anyways, this is pretty much what the general sentiment is right now. Brady already knows he's appealing whatever he gets, and his reps in the NFLPA are going to argue that there is no direct evidence that implicates him having knowledge of the balls being underinflated.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Yeah, it's just a story, but it's one I enjoy. The potentiality that Brady hung himself on his own petard with an ironic statement like that brings me joy.

[sperry]

And just when you think the NFL can't get any lower:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12866296/senator-jeff-flake-criticizes-national-guard-sponsorship-deal-nfl-teams

Turns out they get paid for their celebrations of the troops by the DoD. If the NFL were a villain in a novel, they'd be destroyed on this forum as a completely unrealistic black hat.

[Jaime L]

The report specifically goes out of it's way to absolve Kraft, Belichick, and the rest of the organization. It makes it very apparent that if something happened it was between McNally and Jastremski and that Brady might have been "generally aware". Which according to the report is based off Brady having an issue with overinflated balls earlier in the season. So there is a giant assumption of what he was generally aware of.

"We do not believe that the evidence establishes that any other Patriots personnel participated in or had knowledge of the violation of the Playing Rules or the deliberate effort to circumvent the rules described in this Report. In particular, we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated."

As far as Brady with his cell phone. He's a famous high profile celebrity who could have any of number of reasons for his agent and lawyer to tell him not give his phone to an investigator who has free range to publish his texts in a publically released document. He owns stocks in companies, has conversation with famous friends, is orchestrating endorsement deals, has personal matters, etc whatever. Hell he could even have a girl on the side or something for all we know.

So it's two equipment guys and one player who was "more probable than not generally aware" of that those guys were doing something.

You're misinterpreting the point I'm making. I'm completely with you that it's just Brady and the equipment guys who are guilty of doing it, not anyone else in the organization. I'm talking about after the investigation started.

Don't tell the league you're going to cooperate fully as an organization and then let the principal person being investigated not have to turn over the only thing that matters: the cell phone. Interviews with Brady are meaningless. It's like asking a defendant whether he did the cirme or not and hoping he self-incriminates. What matters is the evidence on his phone, in the same way most damning thing to come out of the investigation is the texts on the equpment guys phones.

And sure he may have valid reasons for not wanting investigators looking into his phone that have nothing to due with deflategate. But just be prepared for it to be treated like a guy refusing to pee in a cup for a random drug test. In that situation, guilt is presumed.

My principal issue remains the arrogance with which both Brady and Kraft have handled the situation. The kind of "how dare you investigate us over such a trivial rules violation" attitude. I'd just fine Brady for having these guys deflate footballs for him on multiple occasions, but I'd suspend him for refusing to cooperate with the investigation.

ETA: Though look at Roger Goodell waiting to see which way public opinion is blowing before deciding what the punishment is. He's so deathly afraid of screwing up again. Why is this guy still commissioner? He's been neutered of any possible ability to make decisions.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

My principal issue remains the arrogance with which both Brady and Kraft have handled the situation. The kind of "how dare you investigate us over such a trivial rules violation" attitude. I'd just fine Brady for having these guys deflate footballs for him on multiple occasions, but I'd suspend him for refusing to cooperate with the investigation.

ETA: Though look at Roger Goodell waiting to see which way public opinion is blowing before deciding what the punishment is. He's so deathly afraid of screwing up again. Why is this guy still commissioner? He's been neutered of any possible ability to make decisions.

Agreed on both points. Kraft and Brady can both EABOD.

And fuck Goodell as well. Talk about deflated balls. The Ginger Hammer, indeed.

[lancerman]

You're misinterpreting the point I'm making. I'm completely with you that it's just Brady and the equipment guys who are guilty of doing it, not anyone else in the organization. I'm talking about after the investigation started.

Don't tell the league you're going to cooperate fully as an organization and then let the principal person being investigated not have to turn over the only thing that matters: the cell phone. Interviews with Brady are meaningless. It's like asking a defendant whether he did the cirme or not and hoping he self-incriminates. What matters is the evidence on his phone, in the same way most damning thing to come out of the investigation is the texts on the equpment guys phones.

And sure he may have valid reasons for not wanting investigators looking into his phone that have nothing to due with deflategate. But just be prepared for it to be treated like a guy refusing to pee in a cup for a random drug test. In that situation, guilt is presumed.

My principal issue remains the arrogance with which both Brady and Kraft have handled the situation. The kind of "how dare you investigate us over such a trivial rules violation" attitude. I'd just fine Brady for having these guys deflate footballs for him on multiple occasions, but I'd suspend him for refusing to cooperate with the investigation.

ETA: Though look at Roger Goodell waiting to see which way public opinion is blowing before deciding what the punishment is. He's so deathly afraid of screwing up again. Why is this guy still commissioner? He's been neutered of any possible ability to make decisions.

I understand that, but what I'm saying is the report goes out of it's way to exonerate everyone but 3 people. And the alleged impeding in the investigation is one guy not going for a 5th or 6th interview, and Brady not giving over things he legally wasn't obligated to after being interviewed for hours and cooperating with everyone otherwise. Like yeah you can be suspicious of Brady for that, but there never should have been the expectation that they were going to be allowed to go through the guys personal texts and emails anyways. And they knew that going in. It's like saying we are going to convict a guy because he didn't let us search his house without a warrant. If like the report says, it was only these 3 guys, then any communication could have been gathered from McNally and Jastremski's end.

[Bronn Stone]

ETA: Though look at Roger Goodell waiting to see which way public opinion is blowing before deciding what the punishment is. He's so deathly afraid of screwing up again. Why is this guy still commissioner? He's been neutered of any possible ability to make decisions.

You ask the question then answer it all by yourself. A neutered commissioner is precisely what the owners want. A strong one would not do their bidding.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I understand that, but what I'm saying is the report goes out of it's way to exonerate everyone but 3 people.

Ask Sean Payton how that worked out for him...

[lancerman]

Ask Sean Payton how that worked out for him...

You know why that was different?

Because a year before they caught the Saints for Bountygate, they tipped off the organization that they were looking into them for that very reason. So even if you want to say Payton had nothing to do with it, he was aware that his team was suspected of it. So when it wasn't stopped, and continued under the DC working directly under Payton, he got a huge a punishment for negligence. Also there was some evidence that Payton did find out after and was trying to cover it.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

You know why that was different?

Because a year before they caught the Saints for Bountygate, they tipped off the organization that they were looking into them for that very reason. So even if you want to say Payton had nothing to do with it, he was aware that his team was suspected of it. So when it wasn't stopped, and continued under the DC working directly under Payton, he got a huge a punishment for negligence. Also there was some evidence that Payton did find out after and was trying to cover it.

Not saying Belicheck should be held responsible in the same manner, just saying it is a possibility given the precedent.

And before Rock pops in, no, I don't think the two situations are comparable in terms of severity.

[Maithanet]

You know why that was different?

Because a year before they caught the Saints for Bountygate, they tipped off the organization that they were looking into them for that very reason. So even if you want to say Payton had nothing to do with it, he was aware that his team was suspected of it. So when it wasn't stopped, and continued under the DC working directly under Payton, he got a huge a punishment for negligence. Also there was some evidence that Payton did find out after and was trying to cover it.

Also Bountygate was big enough, and over a long enough time period, that it is very reasonable to say that whether Payton knew or not, he should have known. In contrast, it's easy to imagine that Belichek had bigger things to worry about than these two ball boys.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Also Bountygate was big enough, and over a long enough time period, that it is very reasonable to say that whether Payton knew or not, he should have known. In contrast, it's easy to imagine that Belichek had bigger things to worry about than these two ball boys.

Very good point.

[Jaime L]

You ask the question then answer it all by yourself. A neutered commissioner is precisely what the owners want. A strong one would not do their bidding.

Could be, but if so they fucked up hiring him initially. He was the one coming down (overly) harshly on any team or player he felt was flaunting the rules. It was clear from the start he wanted to be an out front, activist commissioner in a way the shrewder, subtler Tagliabue did not. They all voted for this guy back in 2006, presumably because he presented a strong, competent face of the league. And they're all sticking with him even though he's the polar opposite of that now.