Small Questions v. 10100

[Mithras]

Wow, not having the app I had no idea Tywin and the Spicers pimped Jeyne like that. How sordid. What kind of god d@$!#d f$#&(@g mother does that to her daughter?

The question is, how did they do that?

"...And once my sister Rhae put a love potion in my drink, so I’d marry her instead of my sister Daella.”

“She was more than that. Half of Lannisport used to go to her for charms and potions. She was mother to a petty lord, a wealthy merchant upjumped by my grandsire. This lord’s father had found her whilst trading in the east. Some say she cast a spell on him, though more like the only charm she needed was the one between her thighs. She was not always hideous, or so they said. I don’t recall the woman’s name. Something long and eastern and outlandish. The smallfolk used to call her Maggy.”

And a further question is: How could Tywin know that the love potion would work? Did he witness the power of Maggy by his own eyes and believed that Sybelle could do the trade as well?

[Lost Melnibonean]

The question is, how did they do that?

"...And once my sister Rhae put a love potion in my drink, so Id marry her instead of my sister Daella.

She was more than that. Half of Lannisport used to go to her for charms and potions. She was mother to a petty lord, a wealthy merchant upjumped by my grandsire. This lords father had found her whilst trading in the east. Some say she cast a spell on him, though more like the only charm she needed was the one between her thighs. She was not always hideous, or so they said. I dont recall the womans name. Something long and eastern and outlandish. The smallfolk used to call her Maggy.

And a further question is: How could Tywin know that the love potion would work? Did he witness the power of Maggy by his own eyes and believed that Sybelle could do the trade as well?

There would have been no communication between Sybelle and Tywin to do this before Robb took the castle and afterward it would have been nearly impossible. I don't see how Tywin could be behind it. Who wrote this enrty in the app?

[Mithras]

There would have been no communication between Sybelle and Tywin to do this before Robb took the castle and afterward it would have been nearly impossible. I don't see how Tywin could be behind it. Who wrote this enrty in the app?

Tywin tried to return to his homelands to defend it from Robb but Edmure didnot let him pass in the Battle of the Fords. Then, Tywin had to retreat to Harrenhal. Since he could do nothing to help them, he should have expected many of the castles of his bannermen to fall to Robb. Crag was half a ruin and Tywin would not doubt that it would fall and Robb would take the Westerlings as hostages for a moment. So, a letter from Harrenhal to the Crag before it was taken at this moment works well.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Is there a thread dedicated to the Timeline of Major Events in order to discuss and classify the known history, similar to the famous timeline thread?

I think it is about time to do this and incorporate new TWOIAF data to the Wiki page I linked.

For example, I cannot find the exact quote where it is stated that Braavos was founded 500 years before Aegon's Landing as given in the Wiki page of Braavos.

"500 years before Aegon's Landing" means Braavos was founded 502 BC, nearly 800 years before present day.

That should be Aegon's Conquest, not Aegon's Landing.. Most mentions of Aegon's Landing on the wiki are supposed to be Aegon's Conquest..

I suggest make a thread on the wiki-forum, or discuss it through the discussion page on the wiki..

The question is, how did they do that?

"...And once my sister Rhae put a love potion in my drink, so I’d marry her instead of my sister Daella.”

“She was more than that. Half of Lannisport used to go to her for charms and potions. She was mother to a petty lord, a wealthy merchant upjumped by my grandsire. This lord’s father had found her whilst trading in the east. Some say she cast a spell on him, though more like the only charm she needed was the one between her thighs. She was not always hideous, or so they said. I don’t recall the woman’s name. Something long and eastern and outlandish. The smallfolk used to call her Maggy.”

And a further question is: How could Tywin know that the love potion would work? Did he witness the power of Maggy by his own eyes and believed that Sybelle could do the trade as well?

Who says it was a love potion? Robb was a young boy, Jeyne was a pretty young girl, the only one around (that's what Sybell and her brother took care off), closeby Robb enough to catch his eye, and be present when Robb needed someone's comfort...

There would have been no communication between Sybelle and Tywin to do this before Robb took the castle and afterward it would have been nearly impossible. I don't see how Tywin could be behind it. Who wrote this enrty in the app?

Ran and/or Linda?

[The_Crannogman]

Hey can someone help me out here.

I recall reading about a theory, I think on this site, which went along the lines:

1) the Wall will fall

2) that the CotF will warg/take control of the giants

3) That Tormund had some connection/meeting with the CotF due to his title of speaker to gods

4) That Tormund knows of the CotF plans to bring down the wall

Sorry if this doesn't help anyone narrow it down but I really want to refresh myself with the theory.

Thanks.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Tywin tried to return to his homelands to defend it from Robb but Edmure didnot let him pass in the Battle of the Fords. Then, Tywin had to retreat to Harrenhal. Since he could do nothing to help them, he should have expected many of the castles of his bannermen to fall to Robb. Crag was half a ruin and Tywin would not doubt that it would fall and Robb would take the Westerlings as hostages for a moment. So, a letter from Harrenhal to the Crag before it was taken at this moment works well.

Tywin didn't fall back on Harrenhal. Roose took it as soon as Tywin left. If he had Edmure's plan might have worked. Tywin abandoned the Red Fork to join Tyrell.

Are you sure Robb didn't capture the Cragg before Tywin left Harrenhal?

[The Wolves]

Did the Cannogmen always have a rivalry with the Freys?

[Archmaester Drew]

Did the Cannogmen always have a rivalry with the Freys?

Yes, but the Freys are not an old house, only about 800 years ago they first build the bridge and started charging tolls... :)

[Ramsay's Penguins]

So waht is actually up with the Faceless Men. They serve the god of death, the Many-Faced God, by the poison water stuff, and they also do assassinations for gold is what I understand, but one of their members seemed to worship the Red God (Lord of Light), and because Arya saved lives, he owes her deaths?

Does -Life (saving someones life)=Death for someone else? I thought "only death may pay for life" and that "all men must die"

[Jon Weirgaryen]

To answer the small question only: The faceless men are a cult in Braavos. Braavos knows many gods. The red god is associated with fire consuming life, so when Arya rescued the Braavosi cultist from the flames, he referred to the red god, she had stolen lives from. Heathens tend to acknowledge other gods, so did he. That's all.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Did the Cannogmen always have a rivalry with the Freys?

Rivalry? The Crannogmen are simply looked down upon, which is why there are those who don't always treat them with respect..

House Frey is relatively young.. 600 years, IIRC, so 'always' would be overstating it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

So waht is actually up with the Faceless Men. They serve the god of death, the Many-Faced God, by the poison water stuff, and they also do assassinations for gold is what I understand, but one of their members seemed to worship the Red God (Lord of Light), and because Arya saved lives, he owes her deaths?

Does -Life (saving someones life)=Death for someone else? I thought "only death may pay for life" and that "all men must die"

The Faceless Men honor all gods, but they notice that Death is present in all religions, so it is Him of Many faces they serve. That does not prevent them from giving other gods their due, and the red god has his due...

"A man pays his debts. A man owes three."

"Three?"

"The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names, and a man will do the rest."

He wants to help me, Arya realized with a rush of hope that made her dizzy. "Take me to Riverrun, it's not far, if we stole some horses we could - "

He laid a finger on her lips. "Three lives you shall have of me. No more, no less. Three and we are done. So a girl must ponder." He kissed her hair softly. "But not too long."

[RumHam]

Do we know the pretext Tywin used to resign as Hand? I thought it was poor health but can't find it. Also I'm a little confused as to when he actually resigned. I thought it was in reaction to Jaime joining the Kingsguard but the worldbook has him as the "former hand" before Harrenhal starts. I'm guessing he heard that Jaime was gonna be inducted to the Kingsguard and resigned before it happened at Harrenhal? If that's the case couldn't he have hastily married Jaime to Lysa or whoever before he was inducted to prevent it?

[Ser Leftwich]

Do we know the pretext Tywin used to resign as Hand? I thought it was poor health but can't find it. Also I'm a little confused as to when he actually resigned. I thought it was in reaction to Jaime joining the Kingsguard but the worldbook has him as the "former hand" before Harrenhal starts. I'm guessing he heard that Jaime was gonna be inducted to the Kingsguard and resigned before it happened at Harrenhal? If that's the case couldn't he have hastily married Jaime to Lysa or whoever before he was inducted to prevent it?

IIRC the order goes: Jaime in KL after the KW brotherhood, meets with Cersei. Cersei says she will get Jaime in the KG (!?!?!). Jaime goes back to CR. It was announced by Aerys. Tywin resigns takes Cersei with him from KL.

If Tywin was in KL and Jaime in CR, Tywin couldn't rush a wedding.

"A moon’s turn later, a royal raven arrived at Casterly Rock to inform him that he had been chosen for the Kingsguard. He was commanded to present himself to the king during the great tourney at Harrenhal to say his vows and don his cloak." - ASoS p. 156

As for the pretext, can't recall there being a specific one mentioned.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Do we know the pretext Tywin used to resign as Hand? I thought it was poor health but can't find it. Also I'm a little confused as to when he actually resigned. I thought it was in reaction to Jaime joining the Kingsguard but the worldbook has him as the "former hand" before Harrenhal starts. I'm guessing he heard that Jaime was gonna be inducted to the Kingsguard and resigned before it happened at Harrenhal? If that's the case couldn't he have hastily married Jaime to Lysa or whoever before he was inducted to prevent it?

Aerys announced Jaime's appointment to the KG publicly at court, and after he thanked him, Tywin pleaded illness, and asked leave to resign as Hand, to which Aerys agreed.. Jaime's actual joining of the KG happened later, at Harrenhal, but the announcement had officially been made before, and thus, Tywin could not marry Jaime off anymore (nor would he have been able to find anyone willing to agree to such a match anymore).

[Jon Weirgaryen]

@Ser Leftwich: almost there :)

A moon's turn later, a royal raven arrived at Casterly Rock to inform him that he had been chosen for the Kingsguard. He was commanded to present himself to the king during the great tourney at Harrenhal to say his vows and don his cloak.

Jaime's investiture freed him from Lysa Tully. Elsewise, nothing went as planned. His father had never been more furious. He could not object openly - Cersei had judged that correctly - but he resigned the Handship on some thin pretext and returned to Casterly Rock, taking his daughter with him.

ASoS 11 Jaime II

As for the pretext, can't recall there being a specific one mentioned.

...only that it was thin :)

Yet Grand Maester Pycelle tells us that when Aerys II announced Ser Jaime’s appointment from the
Iron Throne, his lordship went to one knee and thanked the king for the great honor shown to his
house. Then, pleading illness, Lord Tywin asked the king’s leave to retire as Hand.

TWoIaF: Aerys II

[RumHam]

Ah so it was a faked illness. Thanks folks.

[Dragon Seed]

The 3 dominate religions in Westeros are the Seven, Old Gods and Drowned God.

Why do people who worship the Old or Drowned Gods get punished for breaking the rules of the Seven Gods?

[RumHam]

The 3 dominate religions in Westeros are the Seven, Old Gods and Drowned God.

Why do people who worship the Old or Drowned Gods get punished for breaking the rules of the Seven Gods?

Well firstly while those are the three most popular, you have to realize that it's like 80% Seven, 15% Old, 5% Drowned. The North is the most thinly populated of the kingdoms and it's only major population center is actually a beacon of the Faith.

As for why they should have to follow the rules of the Seven, I don't think they did from Maegor until recently. Granted there was considerable overlap between the laws of the faith and the laws of the Seven Kingdoms. If there are laws that are Sevenish and clash with the old gods a lord who worships the old gods probably just wouldn't enforce them. A good example of this is the Ironborn attitude to slavery and polygamy. Both things are affronts to the faith and probably* illegal, but in practice they have existed under most lords of the Iron Islands. They just don't call it what it is.

*for polygamy, we know slavery is illegal.

[Dragon Seed]

Well firstly while those are the three most popular, you have to realize that it's like 80% Seven, 15% Old, 5% Drowned. The North is the most thinly populated of the kingdoms and it's only major population center is actually a beacon of the Faith.

As for why they should have to follow the rules of the Seven, I don't think they did from Maegor until recently. Granted there was considerable overlap between the laws of the faith and the laws of the Seven Kingdoms. If there are laws that are Sevenish and clash with the old gods a lord who worships the old gods probably just wouldn't enforce them. A good example of this is the Ironborn attitude to slavery and polygamy. Both things are affronts to the faith and probably* illegal, but in practice they have existed under most lords of the Iron Islands. They just don't call it what it is.

*for polygamy, we know slavery is illegal.

What about a situation like Margary Tyrell? If she worshiped the Old Gods could she tell the HS to bug off without fear of the crown? Or the HS demands you testify in a trial, can you refuse? Providing it wasn't a crime that breaks. the Kings Laws