Margaery incrimination too easy?

[Winter Rose Crown]

Cersei didn't commit adultery by bedding lancel, in the show she didn't do it until after Robert died. Incest could be a crime in the eyes of the seven but I doubt it as Aerys and Rhaella were brother and sister and they were married in a Sept. Eta: Tywin and Joanna were first cousins, so it isn't even uncommon.

Sleeping with Jaime would be adultery but if they prove that and prove her kids are jaimes then they also prove that Tommen isn't the rightful king and therefore his decree arming the FM isn't valid.

Soooo... They seem to have put themselves in an awkward place.

[Dofs]

It's remarkable that Margaery for all her scheming couldn't just convince Tommen to remove the Sparrow's right to bear arms. Unfortunately only Tommen's body was aged up and not his mind.

Hey, that's an insult to book Tommen! :closedeyes: The book Tomment has a much bigger backbone than his twice as old show version, for instance.

[Winter Rose Crown]

Oh, and olyvar's smirk makes me think he was promised immunity or a slap on the wrist by cersei or LF. Poor guy, he will not be smirking for long.

[Mindwalker]

Right... Look how easy it is to pass gun control in the USA. Or to restrict hunting in France (hell, each season there are probably more people shot than deer).

They are armed, issuing a piece of paper won't make their arms magically disappear.

A mace for corn stand?

Yeah, but this was not fucked up by him. This was fucked up a certain member of a certain noble house who had to jump the witness, making it nearly an admition of guilt.

Well, they don't have a King with absolute powers in the USA; democracy tends to complicate the process a lot. honestly, this comparison is not very useful.

I'm not sure I understand the Arthur reference in your previous post. No idea if he was weak in the situation you think of; Tommen certainly comes off weak.

>> Yes, tommen is not the knight in shining armor for the tyrell in distress, but why should he be...

Well, amongst other reasons...

- because his wife is in danger. His source for sex (a priority, as we know), for an heir (securing their hold on the crown)

- continued support of the Tyrell family (food, money, the Lannisters are broke... oh, and military support)

Btw., Marge is very popular with the population. she has been shown to be a regular Lady Di to the masses.

ETA: While it seems the King himself is not that popular, people shouting "abomination" etc. in the streets already...

[starklover]

There is no way Tommen is 18, no matter what bullshit the GOT-Wiki pulls out of their ass. DCC says he's playing a twelve year old and that's what I'm going with rather then some insane SORAS.

There's no way he's 12. 14-15 maybe but 12. How old is margaery in the show?

[Mindwalker]

There's no way he's 12. 14-15 maybe but 12. How old is margaery in the show?

So who is lying, the actor or the producers who (according to him) told him he is 12?

[starklover]

So who is lying, the actor or the producers who (according to him) told him he is 12?

How old is margaery if he is 12?

[Stonehearted Snake]

I don't think they have given Margaery's age in either the show or in any interviews. Which is interesting considering the scandal around their consummation in the media. Seems like someone should have asked that question!

As an earlier poster said, DCC has said he is playing a 12 year old so that at least is clear.

I've never seen the acronym SORAS before - love it!!!

[Stonehearted Snake]

Cersei didn't commit adultery by bedding lancel, in the show she didn't do it until after Robert died. Incest could be a crime in the eyes of the seven but I doubt it as Aerys and Rhaella were brother and sister and they were married in a Sept. Eta: Tywin and Joanna were first cousins, so it isn't even uncommon.

Sleeping with Jaime would be adultery but if they prove that and prove her kids are jaimes then they also prove that Tommen isn't the rightful king and therefore his decree arming the FM isn't valid.

Soooo... They seem to have put themselves in an awkward place.

Wow. Good points. Never thought about that before. Though I guess they will just make something up, the way they made up the charge of "buggery."

[TheKitttenGuard]

How old is margaery if he is 12?

She is about 24 years.

Yeah, the actor is 17-18 and the character is 12-13.

[Biglose]

She is about 24 years.

Yeah, the actor is 17-18 and the character is 12-13.

14 at best or it starts to colide with the age of his sibblings. (In the books he was 8-9 at the point)

So lets just take in their age differance (and at his age) and take another look at our hypocrazy on the last 6 pages. Stunning.

[Winter Rose Crown]

She is about 24 years.

Yeah, the actor is 17-18 and the character is 12-13.

isn't she only 16 in the books? Shes 14 in book 1. Why would they age her up to pedophile status?

[TheKitttenGuard]

isn't she only 16 in the books? Shes 14 in book 1. Why would they age her up to pedophile status?

Joffrey became 16 on the show and Margaery is older than Joffrey.

Also, they wanted Natalie for Margaery and can not realistically be a teenager.

[Winter Rose Crown]

Joffrey became 16 on the show and Margaery is older than Joffrey.

Also, they wanted Natalie for Margaery and can not realistically be a teenager.

that makes sense but honestly, if that actor who.plays tommen is supposed to pass for 12 then she could pass for 17/18.

I can't hate too much. I love Natalie as Margaery, so whatever they had to do to make that work.

[Johnsmith]

The lack of law is abhorrent.

The King is absolute, however the Faith Miltant has been activated making their power higher, but they weren't granted by the King.

The Faith Miltant are condemning homosexuality. Yet they accept a witness whose sole testimony is from a homosexual. that testimony is enough to convict high powers, and perjur the queen. How can this testimony be possibly considered as a righteous, or true? The concept is so ridiculously absurdly stupid. There would have to be other witnesses otherwise this trial is a complete mockery to any actual justice. Secondly why would that witness be allowed to go free, so why would he possibly confess? Justice would not be done. There ain't no deal absolving him unless he gets branded and that cannot happen because of his crime. Forced you say he works in a brothel.

In order to convict anybody of nobility at a trial, this would have had to have testimony from somebody of righteous or of noble standing, blessed by religion, god fearing. Further baring true witness under the laws of god. Which rules out the word of a peasant whose crime is of the same accusation. Ser brothel keeper would have been disembowled, hung drawn and quartered, having the four pieces of his body on each of the Spet corners while his guts flew a flag. Long before he bore false witness.

In case you haven't figured out Cersei downfall it is realy easy, Lancel gave the posion wine to Robert, she had sex with Lancel proving incest.

Margaery/Tommen age are irrelevant they both are at a TV age to rule

[ambi76]

If we go with the one season = one year (which often doesn't make sense story wise, I mean Gilly's baby is still a baby for example, but whatever):

Tommen: season 1 aged 8/9 ---> Season 5 going on 13/14

Myrcella: season 1 aged 9/10 ----> Season 5 going on 14/15

Joffrey season 1 aged 15---> Season 4 going on 19

Margaery: Who the fuck knows? But probably neither 16/17 years old like in the books nor 33 years old like Natalie Dormer but somewhere in the Willas age range of around 25.

Sex between first cousins is not a crime even with the Faith Militant, or half of Westeros would be in deep dodo (Rickard/Lyarra, Joanna/Tywin, Paxter/Mina etc.) so the Lancel/Cersei thing is really just fornication out of wedlock and conspirancy to commit murder.

[Dalpha]

The lack of law is abhorrent.

The King is absolute, however the Faith Miltant has been activated making their power higher, but they weren't granted by the King.

The Faith Miltant are condemning homosexuality. Yet they accept a witness whose sole testimony is from a homosexual. that testimony is enough to convict high powers, and perjur the queen. How can this testimony be possibly considered as a righteous, or true? The concept is so ridiculously absurdly stupid. There would have to be other witnesses otherwise this trial is a complete mockery to any actual justice. Secondly why would that witness be allowed to go free, so why would he possibly confess? Justice would not be done. There ain't no deal absolving him unless he gets branded and that cannot happen because of his crime. Forced you say he works in a brothel.

In order to convict anybody of nobility at a trial, this would have had to have testimony from somebody of righteous or of noble standing, blessed by religion, god fearing. Further baring true witness under the laws of god. Which rules out the word of a peasant whose crime is of the same accusation. Ser brothel keeper would have been disembowled, hung drawn and quartered, having the four pieces of his body on each of the Spet corners while his guts flew a flag. Long before he bore false witness.

In case you haven't figured out Cersei downfall it is realy easy, Lancel gave the posion wine to Robert, she had sex with Lancel proving incest.

Margaery/Tommen age are irrelevant they both are at a TV age to rule

People are looking too deep into this. First of all, for all they know, Olyver is just a squire who was practically forced into giving sex to Loras. That's basically what he was implying.

Second, why are people comparing this to our present justice system? Everyone on this show has made it clear that these people are fanatics who don't play by traditional rules. They now have power thanks to Cersei, so they can impose those flawed rules on others. That's the way it works. But even with their flawed rules, let's be clear, Loras wasn't found guilty yet. They just said it was enough to warrant a trial, and to be fair, if there is a witness to back up a charge, even in our system today, usually that warrants a trial. Margary lied in court, that's a serious offense. It doesn't warrant death, but again, we're playing by their rules now.

[Johnsmith]

People are looking too deep into this. First of all, for all they know, Olyver is just a squire who was practically forced into giving sex to Loras. That's basically what he was implying.

Second, why are people comparing this to our present justice system? Everyone on this show has made it clear that these people are fanatics who don't play by traditional rules. They now have power thanks to Cersei, so they can impose those flawed rules on others. That's the way it works. But even with their flawed rules, let's be clear, Loras wasn't found guilty yet. They just said it was enough to warrant a trial, and to be fair, if there is a witness to back up a charge, even in our system today, usually that warrants a trial. Margary lied in court, that's a serious offense. It doesn't warrant death, but again, we're playing by their rules now.

We aren't children the certificate is an R rating adult entertainment adult themes. We are intelligent enough to ask questions

Olyvar or whatever this fool's name is, he is not of noble standing, he hasn't been blessed knighted or coronated. Forced you say when he has been working within a brothel is an understatement. Is not evidence to convict any noble.

Medieval world, are medieval world, how was any inquisition conducted, how was any justice conducted within a feudal world?

There is no present justice system, but in order to bear gods testimony here. How is justice conducted. He would have been placed upon a rack his entrails wound out of his body until he confessed, in that confession he would have to accept religion. Maybe there is a chance through his tortured testimony after accepting religion, possibly would that be enough to convict Loras. Not Margaery that is absurd.

However what we are seeing here, is a false witness, bearing false trial. A witness admitting to the same crime, is no witness at all, even under their justice

Go to the tower of London what were the four corners used for, how did the inquistion of old gain testimony?

He willingly confessed why, his freedom a deal what, more ridiculousness because now they aren't being just? A hearing means what, a later trial by combat or Margaery by faith?

What are you talking about when using modern terms and thought?

Lancel works fine for Cersei because he is of nobility further blessed by the Faith. Olyvar is like so far screwed in every concept it makes zero sense. He would have required a confession born of faith through brimstone and death, before Loras is tried, many other witnesses or Loras testimony to convict Margaery.

[Winter Rose Crown]

John Smith, you're completely ignoring that this is a kangaroo court.

[Les Météores D]

The High Sparrow doesn't give a crap about proofs or counter testimony, he needed an excuse that's all. Also this wasn't a trial, Olenna and Margaery thought it was a formality Loras had to get through and that'll over quickly because they overestimated Cersei's intelligence. The writing was sloppy and the scene rushed, that's true. Spanish inquisition indeed.