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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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Sophie has two faces: weepy and angry. The problem is that they look the same (sometimes I don't know if she's angry because she's weeping or weeping because she's angry). Her face always looks like she's thinking about something else, especially when someone else is speaking in the scene, she zones out, she doesn't "feed" the actor opposite to her, IMHO. A perfect example is the inn episode where she meets Brienne. (But she always does this, this season has been a steady portrayal of her zoning out sessions). Her eyes are always starring into the distance and her face is wooden, like she's not really in that scene, like something way more interesting is happening just behind the camera or anywhere else on the set. She cries well though, that's the only time I think she concentrates on what's happening in the scene.

The biggest problem I have with the Kit criticism is that it ignores so many other things about the character he is portraying. And I don't think such a big issue can be made of his mouth not closing properly, everyone has their bad habits, I hardly find his the most objectionable. If I complained about mouths, Natalie would be at the top of my list--it doesn't matter what's happening, she's always smirking like she knows some great secret, or being openly deceitful. Lena does a half-smile that also undermines much of what she is conveying. Sophie, again, wooden as hell, and he shoulders are so stiff all the time. They all have their bad habits, Kit's is hardly the most glaring. IMO he does everything else so well, he captures Jon very well.

I disagree... Jon is not the most vivid character to portray, but Kit is making him even worse. And it is not just closing his mouth properly. It is also his constipated face when he acts "thinking", it is also his face that never changes. His facial expression is more basic than Henry Cavill's on Man of Steel. I will never forget how Lena ruined Joffrey's death scene with that God-awful fake-cry.

As for Sophie, this is the same as with Emilia, I am not sure that she is untalented, because she knows how to rock a scene and her facial expression is sometimes more expressive than half the cast's. But, I guess that it is the direction writers wanted for both of them. Sansa's lost deer look and Dany's dead face. Sometimes it is not their fault.

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Did anyone else get suspicious about the hooded man that was in the boat with Jon and the rest? I kept thinking at any moment he or it is gonna stab someone. His face was hidden and he was facing the sea.


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I disagree... Jon is not the most vivid character to portray, but Kit is making him even worse. And it is not just closing his mouth properly. It is also his constipated face when he acts "thinking", it is also his face that never changes. His facial expression is more basic than Henry Cavill's on Man of Steel. I will never forget how Lena ruined Joffrey's death scene with that God-awful fake-cry.

As for Sophie, this is the same as with Emilia, I am not sure that she is untalented, because she knows how to rock a scene and her facial expression is sometimes more expressive than half the cast's. But, I guess that it is the direction writers wanted for both of them. Sansa's lost deer look and Dany's dead face. Sometimes it is not their fault.

You and I will never agree. The difference between Sophie and the others is that the others are engaged in the scene. The only times I've thought Sophie to be even moderately talented is when she is crying, and as I've said--those are the only times I think she actually pays attention to what happens in the scene. Then again, it's very easy to confuse crying with moving/inspired acting, I still haven't decided if I appreciate her ability to cry (seemingly, at the drop of a hat) or if I actually think she acts well in those scenes. In the end all I can say is that she cries well.

I like Kit's face, it makes sense to me. And maybe I'm the only one, but I like his acting and think he does a good job. Emilia as well; it makes sense for show-Dany to be the way Emilia portrays her. It was clear from Season 2 that the showrunners wanted a badass ruler in Dany since, as JCRB once eloquently put it, these are the sort of powerful women D+D have opted to have on the show. Given her story on the show, and the events that have transpiered (such as burning a random slaver), it makes sense for Dany to be a stoic ruler who dares not reveal her true face, unless when in an intimate moment, which I think Emilia does well when in Dany-Daario/Dany-dragons/Dany-Missandei/Dany-Jorah/Dany-GreyWorm/Dany-Barristan scenes.

EDIT: I think Kit's face has more to do with something you personally dislike (about his habits), like me and Natalie Dormer's mouth and voice. But I can't label her a bad actress because I don't like the way her mouth moves the way it does, and ignore everything else. I squint when she is on screen and pretend someone else is Margeary, but I can still appreciate everything else she does.

Edited by Kyoshi

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You and I will never agree. The difference between Sophie and the others is that the others are engaged in the scene. The only times I've thought Sophie to be even moderately talented is when she is crying, and as I've said--those are the only times I think she actually pays attention to what happens in the scene. Then again, it's very easy to confuse crying with moving/inspired acting, I still haven't decided if I appreciate her ability to cry (seemingly, at the drop of a hat) or if I actually think she acts well in those scenes. In the end all I can say is that she cries well.

I like Kit's face, it makes sense to me. And maybe I'm the only one, but I like his acting and think he does a good job. Emilia as well; it makes sense for show-Dany to be the way Emilia portrays her. It was clear from Season 2 that the showrunners wanted a badass ruler in Dany since, as JCRB once eloquently put it, these are the sort of powerful women D+D have opted to have on the show. Given her story on the show, and the events that have transpiered (such as burning a random slaver), it makes sense for Dany to be a stoic ruler who dares not reveal her true face, unless when in an intimate moment, which I think Emilia does well when in Dany-Daario/Dany-dragons/Dany-Missandei/Dany-Jorah/Dany-GreyWorm/Dany-Barristan scenes.

EDIT: I think Kit's face has more to do with something you personally dislike (about his habits), like me and Natalie Dormer's mouth and voice. But I can't label her a bad actress because I don't like the way her mouth moves the way it does, and ignore everything else. I squint when she is on screen and pretend someone else is Margeary, but I can still appreciate everything else she does.

Oh, I am sure there are a lot of things we would agree.

When it comes to Sansa on screen, I have never thought of Sophie as the problem, but it has been writing every single time. I haven't seen Sophie in anything apart from Game of thrones, so I can't speak with total certainty whether she is bad actress. Her performance in GoT, in my book, doesn't make her.

But, Kit, I watched him. I had to endure Pompeii, and there it is blatantly obvious that he can't act. It is one face, mouth half-opened, lost deer look. In the scenes where he is supposed to be cool, he is not. He is pushing too far that "tormented soul' look and he is faking it. And worse, faking it badly.

Emilia, as I said, is not doing Daenerys justice. I agree JCRB and the direction taken for Dany's storyline, but from time to time, she has problems in giving anything to the role. Again, I am more inclined to believe that it is the direction, but I wouldn't actually call Clarke versatile in any way.

As for Dormer, she is just beautiful woman. As an actress, I am not that impressed. By anything she has done.

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I disagree... Jon is not the most vivid character to portray, but Kit is making him even worse. And it is not just closing his mouth properly. It is also his constipated face when he acts "thinking", it is also his face that never changes. His facial expression is more basic than Henry Cavill's on Man of Steel. I will never forget how Lena ruined Joffrey's death scene with that God-awful fake-cry.

As for Sophie, this is the same as with Emilia, I am not sure that she is untalented, because she knows how to rock a scene and her facial expression is sometimes more expressive than half the cast's. But, I guess that it is the direction writers wanted for both of them. Sansa's lost deer look and Dany's dead face. Sometimes it is not their fault.

:lol: so now I'm thinking he took his acting classes from watching Friends and doing

Joeys smell the fart acting

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:lol: so now I'm thinking he took his acting classes from watching Friends and doing

Joeys smell the fart acting

Oh, God, yes... Hahahahahahaha

Bingo, Helena :)

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....

Pros

.......

-Tyrion has finally met up with Dany. Yay? - more in Cons

Cons

-Tyrion might be drinking more than normal but he hasn't shown the audience just how low his self esteem goes. Oh sure he might complain about his family, but his dignity doesn't really begin to desert him the way it does in the books. I can understand why the showmakers chose not to make their Emmy-winner be a 'circus-freak', but that reeks somewhat of cowardice to me. Tyrion is my favorite character, and following him across the narrow sea in the books was a painful experience for me. I found myself embarassed for him, and ashamed of myself for feeling that way. Ultimately I could only appreciate the stark realism of the depths of shame and self-loathing a person is capable of, and the sense of hope that lingers when we know that a person is fundamentally bigger than their shortcomings or, more importantly, those imposed upon them by society. And what about the wit, the sarcasm? How, in any way, was Tyrion and Dany's meeting satisfying? Tyrion basically recited his and Dany's resumes, and then used the drama between Dany and Jorah as a springboard onto her small council. This was not a confluence of personality, rather than a convenient joining of plot devices - a slightly epic job interview. When Dinklage isn't voicing the words of Martin, his lines fall flat - no offense to PD, DBW, or DB, but Martin IS Tyrion. The strength, the frailty, the self-loathing, the escapism, the brilliance, the facade - it's all Martin. Who can capture that better than GRRM himself. I hope the showmakers and Dinklage figure out the magic formula, as they tread new ground.

...........

.

I agree very much with that part of your post. While I still think that Dinklage's performance is impressive I would have wanted to see the actor go all the road with Tyrion, it would have been outstanding. Only they did not let him. Edited by Woman of War

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I think Sophie and Kit are both excellent when the material given is good. Kit wasn't good in Season 2 and 3, but I think he nailed it in Season 1 and 4, and actually, I think he's giving one of the best performances of Season 5. His scenes in 5x05 were brilliant if you ask me.



Emilia...well, she's proven she can act, I think it's mostly a problem with the direction D&D want for Dany.


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Why are people making such a big deal out of the hooded figure in the boat? Could he/she not just be an extra?

Yes he could and he is. They did show his face at one point and it's just a guy. And not even the only hooded guy on the boat so.. Some of the wildlings just decided to wear hooded cloaks that day.

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Ratings were back up to 7.01 million for this episode. Hopefully this quiets the doubters who were arguing that last week's massive dip was anything other than the usual Memorial Day issue (I didn't watch that episode live either). There's obviously been some decrease this season (that article points out that this still isn't quite as high as episode 8 last season), but its not the death knell some were trying to make it out to be.


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Kit- I have actually grown to like him more in the past two seasons. It seems that many of the younger actors are for some reason defaulting to "no expression" face for their characters. This, to them, communicates strength. I do believe that Kit is better than Emilia, but is more a model/stuntman than an actor. Jon is not a terribly interesting character though, in my opinion, so it doesn't matter that he can't convey an array of emotions.



Emilia- I think she just thinks her poop don't stink and she is doing "nuanced" acting. Dany is in no way stoic and it is a horrible way to depict her character. We need to like Dany, especially since they keep killing all of the interesting, likable characters around her. I believe she is somewhat phoning it in and trying to act "strong." I don't know where emotionless = strong comes from, but I think that's the train of thought for many of these young actors.



Sophie- Actually, I hardly pay attention to her, but she doesn't really annoy me. I've always thought it was more of the writing than her acting, but I dunno. She's been playing "victim" for 5 seasons now and I think that's the writing's fault. She's probably just super bored with that characterization.



Maisie- I often find myself watching Maisie acting more than Arya being on screen, if that makes sense. She often takes me out of the scene because I see the actress and not the character. I dunno, this could just be me again and maybe I don't like, again, her "strong = emotionless" thing that she often does. I think she's just young and could be a lot better given years and practice. I think Maisie is 'sassy tomboy' in real life, and sometimes that conflicts with her trying to portray Arya's character in the show, and I think that makes sense.



Lena- I've honestly gotten tired of her "show no emotion" face. I understand that it is in character, sort of, but dammit can at least one character have some passion to them? Does every character have to resort to stoicism when confronted with a difficult situation? This is, of course, not related to her screaming scenes. She does those well, I think.



Dinklage- I think its the writing, and that maybe he is sort of one-note with his pessimistic-witty acting style for Tyrion. I remember Tyrion really getting on my nerves in ADWD though so it could just be the one-dimensional nature of his writing for this show. He is a fun actor and has a great role in Tyrion. I love him as it even if he does get old to me now and again.


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I honestly think bashing on Emilia and Kit's acting is just a fashionable thing.

Lena either whispers or screams, or says everything through clenched teeth. It's annoying as hell.

Peter and that horrible accent, and the overacting. Just horrible.

Sophie...where to begin...I cringe when Sophie is on screen.

Iwan was absolutely horrible this episode, classic b-grade movie villain, and he is always praised here.

Many other horrible actors on this show.

I honestly think at this point, people don't think their posts about the show are complete unless they bash Kit and Emilia, even when they do well. Kit was excellent this episode, the saving grace at this point.

I actually think for a first timer, Sophie is nailing 98% of her character, everything up to this year has been primarily from Sansa's thoughts where Sophie had to use body language and facial expressions to convey her thoughts.

Emila's a bit flat for me on some scenes.

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Yes! Not only that but the boat was just...there. waiting. Alone. One random boat left, with some random "hooded man" doing nothing. Also, ww can jump off mountain tops but swim 20 feet, nope. Too cold.

So, DG=VS?

I've said this before....I don't understand why people are expecting the wights to be able to swim. For the most part, they're former free folk and considering the water temperature where they live, I doubt that many of them can swim.

The other possibility is that the NK's intent was more "building his army" than it was chasing the Night's Watch all the way back to the Wall. That battle will come later...

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"... When Dinklage isn't voicing the words of Martin, his lines fall flat - no offense to PD, DBW, or DB, but Martin IS Tyrion. The strength, the frailty, the self-loathing, the escapism, the brilliance, the facade - it's all Martin. Who can capture that better than GRRM himself. I hope the showmakers and Dinklage figure out the magic formula, as they tread new ground."
THIS. I thought this half way through the first book and have said so infrequently since. A lot of people don't seem to be willing to understand it. (apologies for losing the quote box. Credit goes to Maashadar, on 02 Jun 2015 - 07:02 AM)
Edited by Ted Chang

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I honestly think bashing on Emilia and Kit's acting is just a fashionable thing.

I honestly think at this point, people don't think their posts about the show are complete unless they bash Kit and Emilia, even when they do well. Kit was excellent this episode, the saving grace at this point.

I also think that people are bashing on Kit and Emilia out of habit as its so easy to bash on young lead characters.

But Kit has done great in this season. Shooting these scenes at Hardhome must have been exhausting for an actor, especially if your opponent is CGI'ed, a neon green suit with black dots on it. I was impressed by the genuine sheer horror and panic and desperation at the same time on Jons face. And fighting scenes as well. To trigger those strong emotions on a film set where you have to imagine your opponents must be pretty hard so I think that was really well acted.

Not sure if having a large array of facial expressions necessarily makes a great actor.

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