NBA Finals 2015 - Lebron vs. The Warriors vs. MJ

[Calibandar]

I don't understand this at all. LeBron has literally no one to pass the ball to. SO yeah, he's jacking up shots, out of necessity.

My post was about his shooing percentage not being great, and that compared to how great he is at other aspects of the game, it's his shooting that seems a weak aspect.

There are critcism about LeBron that do seem fair to me, it just gets overwhelmed by his overall greatness. His shooting is not great on quite a few nights that I have seen, and I agree with the poster last thread that in clutch time, he seems to behave differently. It's not that never gets it done, but his shooting seems to get even more erratic then.

[Relic]

And yet, with Kevin Love out because of a dislocated shoulder and Kyrie Irving out because of a fractured kneecap, James has temporarily abandoned his obsession with his personal shooting stats in pursuit of a larger goal.

"I mean, I'm not OK with it," James said when asked about his plummeting percentage. "I'm not OK with it. But, I'm so outside the box right now."

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13049889/2015-nba-playoffs-lebron-numbers-lie

Speaking of Lebron in clutch time, he has a surprising limited assortment of moves for those situations. He either settles for long contested jumpers or drives to the hoop and misses because everyone in the building knows what he's about to do. He ALWAYS goes left in those situations, and always tries to put up s shitty layup off the glass. I've seen him miss that shot more times than i can count at this point. He needs that MJ mid range dagger added to his wide array of skills.

In other news Delly was hospitalized aftter the game with severe cramping. Yikes.

[Calibandar]

And yet, with Kevin Love out because of a dislocated shoulder and Kyrie Irving out because of a fractured kneecap, James has temporarily abandoned his obsession with his personal shooting stats in pursuit of a larger goal.

"I mean, I'm not OK with it," James said when asked about his plummeting percentage. "I'm not OK with it. But, I'm so outside the box right now."

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13049889/2015-nba-playoffs-lebron-numbers-lie

Good piece, explains a lot.

[Rhom]

Interesting discussion on ESPN radio this morning about the whistle with 17 seconds left.

The defender cannot be out of bounds and touch the ball as was eventually called after going to replay.

[stephenASmithvoice]However,[/stephenASmithvoice] the original call was for an "inadvertent whistle." There are 15 triggers which can prompt a sideline review of the play... "inadvertent whistle" is not one of them.

So while the play was eventually correctly called on replay, the refs actually were not by rule allowed to go to replay there. The correct call would have been "inadvertent whistle" Golden State ball down 3.

Rules can be so tricksy... even when you get it right, you're wrong. :lol:

[Red Tiger]

I am reminded of Jaime's "Forsaking one vow for another" speech, only take out vow and insert rule.

[SkynJay]

Didn't really think about it but heard on Mike & Mike this morning. Cavs are 4-0 in the playoffs without Irving.

[Relic]

Didn't really think about it but heard on Mike & Mike this morning. Cavs are 4-0 in the playoffs without Irving.

Where did all the people who were saying that Irving was 1a to Bron's 1 go? No WAY Kyrie carries the team like LeBron is the roles were reversed.

[Mexal]

My belief on what is LeBron's secret motivation: Steph Curry 2015 NBA MVP over the best player potentially who ever played. It's an absolute fucking joke.

Why have an MVP then if Lebron should win it every year no matter how good other players were and how important they were to their teams?

Crazy game. Still think Warriors win.

[Maithanet]

Crazy game. Still think Warriors win.

I agree on both counts, although I'm a lot less confident than I was going into game 3. For those of us rooting for the Warriors, the 4th quarter was the first time in the entire series that GS looked like themselves. I take solace in the fact that GS is the better team when they are playing their game. But hats off to the Cavaliers, they have knocked the Warriors out of their game for 11 of the 12 quarters thus far.

[Calibandar]

Why have an MVP then if Lebron should win it every year no matter how good other players were and how important they were to their teams?

Crazy game. Still think Warriors win.

Well I think Durant last year won it deservedly and LeBron himself actually admitted multiple times that it should go to Durant.

He's not done that this year with Curry and I don't think LeBron feels it's the right call. And I'd agree with him, it should have been LeBron, but Curry is a worthy winner, and that would have applied to Harden as well.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Lol at Stephen A. Smith. He says he doesn't know why Golden State doesn't make someone else beat them other than LeBron, the way Cleveland has dared anyone but Curry to beat them. That's because they can't. LeBron has decided he is going to beat you. It isn't even mattering if you lock down his other teammates because he's already decided to be in attack mode. That's the point of all the shots he's been taking.

Golden State can win this series, but if they do, it won't be because LeBron doesn't continue getting his.

[Jaime L]

This is what happens when you spend all season playing bullshit finesse basketball. You have no idea how to react when someone starts slapping you in the mouth. I've got to hand it to the Cavs, they are playing like someone has a gun to their heads.

How does the best defensive team in the league all season play finesse basketball? And, again, they got slapped in the mouth by the physically toughest team in the league all season in Memphis...and I'd say they slapped back pretty well.

The issue to me is one of entitlement. The one thing I actually do agree with you on is that the Cavs are playing like their hair is on fire while the Warriors just seem to be acting like this series would be served to them on a platter with no Irving or Love. Kobe had the perfect tweet on this:

Cavs playing as if their life is on the line G.S playing as if they have more #NBAFinals down the line #ThisIsNOW #competitionIsEverything

At least they finally started competing and matching the Cavs intensity in the 4th quarter. Now they need to do it all game. They're not going to beat the best player on the planet with anything less.

[Relic]

JL - I haven't watched as much NBA ball this year as I have in previous years but I get the sense that the wars just haven't been truly tested yet. They also don't seem to know how to grind a game out and have only one real formula for winning, which involves the 3s and flashy drilling. I didn't see much of the Grizz series so I'm very open to being completely wrong, but the Cavs are doing exactly what they should be doing defensively. Draping Curry, crashing boards, and slowing tempo. Thus far no real response from GS.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Way to jinx it dude. Just keep that uneasy feeling, OK?

Oh, it's still there. Self-doubt is very much present within.

[Maithanet]

Lol at Stephen A. Smith. He says he doesn't know why Golden State doesn't make someone else beat them other than LeBron, the way Cleveland has dared anyone but Curry to beat them.

That's a very stupid analysis. Lebron is scoring a ton of points because he's shooting a ton of shots. Golden State's defense has been totally fine, definitely good enough to win all three games. The problem is that they are getting outrebounded and their offense has been virtually nonexistent. In all three games there have been stretches where it seems like nobody in a Warriors uniform can hit open shots.

Like last night Barnes shot 0-8 and virtually every one of those shots was when he was left alone to double Curry. This is a guy who shot 48% from the field, 41% from 3 point range this year. I'm not trying to pin everything on him, but he's emblematic of why the Warriors offense isn't working. All year they relied on having too many weapons, particularly too many shooters, to defend. But in this series, the Cavaliers defensive lapses are not being punished. For a while there in the first quarter of game 3, it seemed like the best Cavs defense was to just leave someone (not Curry) open so they would hurry up and miss their shot.

[Rhom]

From Grantland: The Gospel of Matthew

He’s got a career PER of 9.6. Right now, as you sit at your desk or cubicle or breakfast nook or whatever, your PER is probably closer to Delly’s than Delly’s is to LeBron’s career 27.7 PER. His elite skill is that opponents look at him and go, “How the fuck is this even happening?”

This harkens back to the "Whitest and-1 I've ever seen" from last night. :lol:

Dellavedova shot 4-of-6 on contested field goal attempts and 3-of-11 on uncontested field goal attempts, per NBA.com. Why? Because.

As usual on Grantland, its a great read.

[Jaime L]

JL - I haven't watched as much NBA ball this year as I have in previous years but I get the sense that the wars just haven't been truly tested yet. They also don't seem to know how to grind a game out and have only one real formula for winning, which involves the 3s and flashy drilling. I didn't see much of the Grizz series so I'm very open to being completely wrong, but the Cavs are doing exactly what they should be doing defensively. Draping Curry, crashing boards, and slowing tempo. Thus far no real response from GS.

Absolutely. And I'd argue, perversely, losing Love and Irving is looking like the best possible thing that could have happened to the Cavs. There's no defensive weak link on the floor. Everyone is flying around, banging, doing whatever it takes to get rebounds and loose balls. No-one needs to get "theirs". Run the entire offense through Lebron and fill your specific role. The iso ball also seems to be helping them get back on defense and cut off Warriors fast breaks. They've morphed into precisely the type of team they need to be to counter all the things the Warriors are so good at.

That's a very stupid analysis. Lebron is scoring a ton of points because he's shooting a ton of shots. Golden State's defense has been totally fine, definitely good enough to win all three games. The problem is that they are getting outrebounded and their offense has been virtually nonexistent. In all three games there have been stretches where it seems like nobody in a Warriors uniform can hit open shots.

Like last night Barnes shot 0-8 and virtually every one of those shots was when he was left alone to double Curry. This is a guy who shot 48% from the field, 41% from 3 point range this year. I'm not trying to pin everything on him, but he's emblematic of why the Warriors offense isn't working. All year they relied on having too many weapons, particularly too many shooters, to defend. But in this series, the Cavaliers defensive lapses are not being punished. For a while there in the first quarter of game 3, it seemed like the best Cavs defense was to just leave someone (not Curry) open so they would hurry up and miss their shot.

Yeah, and let's face it Draymond Green has been terrible on offense too. He's giving up open 3's to drive at Mosgov in the lane? Dude has 6 inches on him and is awesome defender. That's going to work about as terribly as you'd imagine. He's suddenly looking like the 2nd rounder he was instead of the third most critical player on a 67 win team.

it's why the Warriors offense really started clicking when Lee got on the floor. He was making all the savvy offensive plays that Draymond and Barnes haven't. You see veterans like Iggy and Lee doing their thing while the young guys on the Warriors have shrunk in front of the spotlight of the Finals. They need both guys to be themselves to come back in this series. If the moment continues to be too big for them, Cavs are taking home the title.

[Rhom]

Damn confusing board and the double post...

[Relic]

From Grantland: The Gospel of Matthew

This harkens back to the "Whitest and-1 I've ever seen" from last night. :lol:

As usual on Grantland, its a great read.

most dalayed dp ever

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

JL - I haven't watched as much NBA ball this year as I have in previous years but I get the sense that the wars just haven't been truly tested yet. They also don't seem to know how to grind a game out and have only one real formula for winning, which involves the 3s and flashy drilling. I didn't see much of the Grizz series so I'm very open to being completely wrong, but the Cavs are doing exactly what they should be doing defensively. Draping Curry, crashing boards, and slowing tempo. Thus far no real response from GS.

And Lebron controlling the pace has been the biggest key. I was working and had no opportunity to catch a glimpse of the game. But, when I seen the halftime score, I was confident the Cavs would win. Cavs are dictating, and truly I don't see it changing.

And, this is what the Finals usually are. Yes, there are exceptions, last year. But, you have to know how to slow the game down and play possession basketball. And the Warriors are not very good at it. There built for running and spacing and jacking 3's.

Calibander, thanks for making me not feel like I watch a different game than everyone else, Lol. And, one telling outcome of these games is the 4th quarter. I don't know what the score was last night, but, Cavs have been ahead by 10 in the previous two. And, let GS comeback and beat them in Game 1, nail biter Game 2, and last night close at the end. I don't want a debate, but, if anything MJ knew how to close a game out. But, in defense of Lebron, he is literally pulling this team on his back. I'm truly in awe right now. And, if he wins this, we can have a REAL discussion about GOAT. It'd be hard to not have him on the same podium.

And when I made the statement that this felt a lot like MIA vs OKC, this is what I meant. You have these young up and comers, with no Finals experience. Lebron, is though, entering into that elite company of player that you feel confident your not beating them in a series. Lebron, knows its not sprint, its a marathon.