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GRRM himself weights on on "Maegor the Third", Night's King


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http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/12392

I suspect that "Maegor III" was a mistake, though I cannot say for certain. Perhaps a flubbed line, as you suggest. It is true that the Targaryen succession on the series is different than the one in the novels; most notably, the Mad King's father Jaehaerys II was dropped, as was established way back in season one. In much the same way as the Rhoynar have been dropped from the royal titles, "King of Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men," etc.
These changes were simplifications, however. The books are very complex, but the practical limits of a television series call for a bit more simplicity. Dropping a king or two accomplishes that.
ADDING kings, however, would be a step in the opposite direction, which is why I think "Maegor III" had to be a mistake. And not one that was in the scripts, I would guess. Bryan Cogman, who is the Keeper of the Continuity on the series, knows the names of the Targaryen kings as well as I do.
Of course, it could also be a subtle bit of characterization, as you suggest, intended to show that Mace is an idiot who does not know his Westerosi history. (Not a mistake that Book Mace would make, but the character in the show combines Mace with Harys Swyft, and actually seems more like the latter).
All this, of course, is surmise on my part. You would have to ask David or Dan or Bryan for a more definitive answer.
In the book canon, of course, there has only been only King Maegor, the reputation of Maegor the Cruel being so black. England has had only one King John, for much the same reasons. (Prince Aerion Brightflame did name his son Maegor, but that was meant as a provocation, and in any case the boy never sat the Iron Throne).
As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have.

So sayeth the Shepherd, so sayeth the flock.

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I like to give benefit of the doubt. Mace was slightly less idiotic this week- a blowhard, but not a moron- this kind of brings him down to his usual level. The writers have slipped little things in before, and it would be apt of Mace, at least Show Mace, to make a mistake like this.


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Though I do bow to the power and wisdom of The Dragon Demands, I don't see the importance of this. Only people who have darned near memorised the books will have caught the discrepancy. Maybe the writers included it to see how many of the devout book readers are still watching? :dunno: Just my take on it. I didn't catch it, but then again I have only read most of the books twice...not enough to know the history, for sure.


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Though I do bow to the power and wisdom of The Dragon Demands, I don't see the importance of this. Only people who have darned near memorised the books will have caught the discrepancy. Maybe the writers included it to see how many of the devout book readers are still watching? :dunno: Just my take on it. I didn't catch it, but then again I have only read most of the books twice...not enough to know the history, for sure.

agreed, I understand there are a lot of people who take the canon and lore of the ASOIAF universe very seriously, but the show is not trying to establish a deep, detailed world (nor does it have the ability to if it even wanted to). All it's trying to do is be entertainng, and that's all that the majority of viewers want to get out of it.

I thank those who try to help hash out the many details of both book and show, and the wikis are incredibly helpful to refresh my memory on obscure facts and characters, but I don't see any major issue here or with the Night's King name. We've been told from the beginning the show should be separated from the books, discrepancies between the two should just be chalked up to that fact.

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I look at the Night's King as similar to Azor Ahai. There's only one Azor Ahai and he died a long time ago. But any hero who fights and wins against the WW is going to be called AA.





So the Night's King is show-fanfiction who wanted to manufacture a Dark Lord...how unsurprising





The WW don't have a leader/leaders in the books?


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oh, Mace. How i wish this was all a ruse. Wouldn't it be sweet if Mace was actually revealed to be a sly mastermand instead of a gullible buffoon?

I like this - the Tyrell women are openly cunning, and keep complaining about their idiot men, who are actually master mummers, good enough at listening and dissembling to make Varys proud.

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I'm more interested in George's comment about book-Mace not being the type to make a mistake like that. Hint that book-Mace is more than he seems perhaps?

He did comment on it. He can only guess why Mace said that. His best guess is that they have merged Mace and Harys Swyft but he really doesn't know because he hasn't consulted with D&D in a long time. He hasn't been involved with the show since the Purple Wedding.

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Is it too late to have the writers of the scripts fired and hire new ones that know what their doing instead?

They know what they're doing. They've ran a critically acclaimed show for 5 seasons. Sure, let's replace them because you don't like some of their choices.

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Ok, I'm totally confused?



There is a Nights King in the books - he is not a show invention.



What the hell can the Nights King have to do with a Targ King? There are 1000s of years between the Nights King heading into the north and the Valyrian shepherds even finding the 14 flames, let alone the Targ dynasty being established?



Or are these things totally unrelated and GRRM is just nitpicking? I really don't get it? Does Maegor have any bearing on the current story at all? If not, he is superfluous back story.



All that matters in GRRMs statement seems to be that book Nights King (Night's King, Nightsking, Knights King - again, who really gives a fuck) is well and truly dead, suggesting he is out of the picture. This is a huge difference from the show and worries me that something is not right about the communication between GRRM & D&D. I don't see why the show would factor in an important mythological character, that requires a massive FX budget, if he wasn't important to the ending that GRRM sold them way back when?


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Ok, I'm totally confused?

There is a Nights King in the books - he is not a show invention.

What the hell can the Nights King have to do with a Targ King? There are 1000s of years between the Nights King heading into the north and the Valyrian shepherds even finding the 14 flames, let alone the Targ dynasty being established?

Or are these things totally unrelated and GRRM is just nitpicking? I really don't get it? Does Maegor have any bearing on the current story at all? If not, he is superfluous back story.

All that matters in GRRMs statement seems to be that book Nights King (Night's King, Nightsking, Knights King - again, who really gives a fuck) is well and truly dead, suggesting he is out of the picture. This is a huge difference from the show and worries me that something is not right about the communication between GRRM & D&D. I don't see why the show would factor in an important mythological character, that requires a massive FX budget, if he wasn't important to the ending that GRRM sold them way back when?

I just see it as the showrunners/writers giving the leader of the White Walkers a moniker. As Mel is always stating the Night is Dark and full of Terrors, the WW leader got named Mr. Night, and is the king of the Ice men/women/resurrected.

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As for the showrunners being fired, just start a petition if you are that passionate about the matter. I'm not sure of how much HBO would have to dole out for breach of contract due to them signing on for 7 years, but if the execs can afford millions per episode, no doubt they can afford to pay out DnD (and everyone else associated with the writing and editing) their contractual compensation for the next 2 years. :rolleyes:

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Ok, I'm totally confused?

There is a Nights King in the books - he is not a show invention.

What the hell can the Nights King have to do with a Targ King? There are 1000s of years between the Nights King heading into the north and the Valyrian shepherds even finding the 14 flames, let alone the Targ dynasty being established?

Or are these things totally unrelated and GRRM is just nitpicking? I really don't get it? Does Maegor have any bearing on the current story at all? If not, he is superfluous back story.

All that matters in GRRMs statement seems to be that book Nights King (Night's King, Nightsking, Knights King - again, who really gives a fuck) is well and truly dead, suggesting he is out of the picture. This is a huge difference from the show and worries me that something is not right about the communication between GRRM & D&D. I don't see why the show would factor in an important mythological character, that requires a massive FX budget, if he wasn't important to the ending that GRRM sold them way back when?

GRRM makes no attempt to conflate the two issues. He is responding to a question from The Dragon Demands (who does the GoT wiki) on his blog.
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