Dark Matter and Killjoys: the beginnings of SyFy's attempt to get their spaceship on again

[Theda Baratheon]

Yeah, dont want to get into a debate on Defiance here, but I personally definitly enjoy the show !

 

That being said, "My Name is Datak Tarr and I have come to kill you" is the best episode of the entire show. 

I was honestly crying with laughter. I was laughing my ASS OFF at the ending of that episode. Fucking BRILLIANT.  

 

havent seen the latest dark matter yet, it's on tonight. bit annoyed killjoys doesnt seem to be showing in the UK, i never see it on telly, would have liked to have watched it. 

[felice]

Is there any possible way the android isn't the one responsible for the mind wipe?

 
I think it's more likely to be Two. The lie detector test was her idea; she could have asked the Android to lie about the truthfulness of her responses.
 

I really want to like Dark Matter.  It has the better premise and there is such meaty plot to go with exploring how people can choose who they would be.

I'm not convinced the premise is that great; amnesia is hardly an original plot device, and the setting seems pretty generic and ill-defined. Killjoys does a better job of exploring people with dark pasts choosing who they want to be. The only problem with Killjoys is that the premise is hard to describe in a catchy phrase; "space bounty-hunters" really doesn't do it justice, and I almost didn't bother checking it out. It's not easy to sell to potential viewers.
 

-the RAC is an interstellar organization; its status as neutral law enforcement might actually be a front for a different agenda; there really is a level 6, which might have something to do with whatever "Red 17" is
-the fact that the military (presumably a representative of a larger, interstellar government structure which doesn't bother to run individual star systems like the Quad)

Another question is what's meant by interstellar - just the J (and how big is that, anyway?) or is the J just one small part of a galaxy-spanning civilisation? I get the impression they don't have FTL travel; if there are many habitable systems within a few light years of each other, interstellar travel within the J would be viable at just a significant fraction of c, but contact with more distant systems (eg Earth) would be much more limited - a round trip taking decades or centuries. Can Lucy leave the Quad, or is she just a intra-system vessel? She doesn't seem suitable for subjectively long trips, but if she can get close enough to c for time dilation to be a factor, that wouldn't be a problem. Though if they spent too much time travelling interstellar, the supporting cast back in the Quad would age noticeably.

[felice]

I caught the episode ''My name is datak tarr and I am here to kill you'' or something on Defiance the other day and it was so fucking awesome that despite all the bad things being said about defiance here I kinda want to go bacxk and really watch the whole thing from the start.

 

I'm just a couple of episodes into season two, and based on what I've seen so far I'd say it probably is worth watching from the start.

[Jon AS]

Another question is what's meant by interstellar - just the J (and how big is that, anyway?) or is the J just one small part of a galaxy-spanning civilisation? I get the impression they don't have FTL travel; if there are many habitable systems within a few light years of each other, interstellar travel within the J would be viable at just a significant fraction of c, but contact with more distant systems (eg Earth) would be much more limited - a round trip taking decades or centuries. Can Lucy leave the Quad, or is she just a intra-system vessel? She doesn't seem suitable for subjectively long trips, but if she can get close enough to c for time dilation to be a factor, that wouldn't be a problem. Though if they spent too much time travelling interstellar, the supporting cast back in the Quad would age noticeably.

 

John and D'Avin aren't from the Quad, and in the pilot they haven't seen each other in 8 years, but D'Avin spent most of that in the military, his trip on the Arcturus can't have taken up a lot of that time and John has been working with Dutch for 6 of those years (plus, since the neural link seems to work without time lag, they clearly have FTL communication ;) ).

The conversation between Dutch and John in the last episode implied that they didn't meet in the Quad, and that they arrived there together, with Lucy.

 

I get the impression that travelling between systems is relatively expensive (on the other hand it's cheap enough that the Arcturus is a profitable venture, though maybe their cargo is more than just indentured fighters) but not that unusual. Beyond being Killjoys, the team members are also outsiders by virtue of not being native to the Quad, but nobody treats that as extremely exotic.

[felice]

 

John and D'Avin aren't from the Quad, and in the pilot they haven't seen each other in 8 years, but D'Avin spent most of that in the military, his trip on the Arcturus can't have taken up a lot of that time and John has been working with Dutch for 6 of those years (plus, since the neural link seems to work without time lag, they clearly have FTL communication ;) ).

 

If the next system over is only a few light months away, and the trip doesn't take much longer than that (subjectively, could be less), it's not implausible. And both brothers have made the trip, cancelling out any time dilation for a longer trip - eight subjective years could be eighteen real years. And we don't know the neural link is FTL; Khlyen could have been staying relatively close (within tens of thousands of km) when he "visited" Dutch, and she's purely an observer when she visits him, so there's no way to detect any lag.

[Jon AS]

 

If the next system over is only a few light months away, and the trip doesn't take much longer than that (subjectively, could be less), it's not implausible. And both brothers have made the trip, cancelling out any time dilation for a longer trip - eight subjective years could be eighteen real years. And we don't know the neural link is FTL; Khlyen could have been staying relatively close (within tens of thousands of km) when he "visited" Dutch, and she's purely an observer when she visits him, so there's no way to detect any lag.

 

I could have sworn Dutch got a glimpse of his office area when she was first linked to Khlyen, but it seems he only sent her visual information for the Black Warrant, so you're right, FTL communication not confirmed.

[The Mother of The Others]

killjoys doesnt seem to be showing in the UK. 

 

aw, they've let something slip through the cracks then, because Dutch sounds Extra British!   In the States, our British America station will eventually have no choice but to show Killjoys reruns simply because of how British the main character sounds.

 

 

If the next system over is only a few light months away, and the trip doesn't take much longer than that (subjectively, could be less), it's not implausible.

 

I think they've made their choice by not saying anything about it.   If you have a galaxy where space travel is inconvenient, you mention it loud and often as if it's a selling point for your universe.   If they're quiet about the specifics of space travel, that means they want to preserve the option of having characters go wherever, whenever.  (and they'd prefer us to not peek behind their Green Curtain to ask how this is possible.   So I'm assuming travel is pretty easy for those with means.  Which is almost nobody.   But for a couple few people, zip zap and there you are in the Quorton Nebula.

[Jon AS]

[i]Dark Matter[/i] was kind of enjoyable for the right reasons this week. It's admittedly hard to fuck up a [i]Die Hard[/i] plot, but it allowed them to make decent use of being limited to the ship for once.

There's still not much reason to care about the protagonists, but if the bad guys are so clearly [i]really[/i] bad guys like in this episode that doesn't matter quite so much.

Not much in terms of backstory or establishing the universe, so everything still lacks a proper context to place it in.

 

[i]Killjoys[/i] delivered. I can't believe they killed the bar, that place was so versatile: you could get drinks, hire prostitutes, get medical aid, make super secret plans to infiltrate the RAC and also loan it out to the RAC when they wanted to hold a briefing for a Black Warrant.

Everything else came together nicely (though really, the super secret base is called "Red 17" because there's a big, red 17 painted on its walls?), we got answers to a lot of questions and get to ask some more. Is that green stuff indigenous to Arkyn (i.e. maybe some kind of alien lifeform)? Will Fancy now be an even bigger arsehole? What is Khlyen really planning? Supporting the coup seemed more like an opportunistic thing to do, rather than an endgame, and Red 17/Level Six seems a bit too big a project to just use it to take over the Quad. And of course this is clearly not what Khlyen wants Dutch for. The thing I don't get is that he still seems to think he can get her willing cooperation somehow, when Dutch has comprehensively proven that not only will she not kill on command, she'll put herself at risk to help others (which makes her terrible at the whole "take no sides" part of being a Killjoy) and is determined to oppose him. Interestingly she doesn't appear to be completely off-limits to other Level Six operatives, so Khlyen might actually be answerable to someone else.

 

I think they've made their choice by not saying anything about it.   If you have a galaxy where space travel is inconvenient, you mention it loud and often as if it's a selling point for your universe.

 

They have made a point of setting it in a star cluster, not an entire galaxy, though. Clusters are called that because they're so densely packed. One can also infer from the blessing that Qresh and the entire J Star Cluster are a long way from earth.

The last episode seemed to be making the point that, if you have a ship capable of interstellar travel, travelling between systems is at least not a huge deal. It was implied that simply taking off in Lucy without further preparations was definitely an option.

[SpaceChampion]

I think Khylen is just a Snape.  Seems to me he working for whatever side Red 17 is in order to destroy it with Dutch's help some day.  She's the Harry Potter of the story.

[Theda Baratheon]

I actually quite like most of the Dark Matter crew now. It's only One and Two I don't like.

[Theda Baratheon]

Or rather...don't care about. Actually no, still dislike One.

[Martini Sigil]

are either of these shows worth an end of season binge?... comparable to.... like... let's say... 12 Monkeys?... or Mr Robot?

[Dr. Pepper]

Not even close to comparable to 12 Monkeys or Mr. Robot. In my opinion, neither show is really worth watching at this point if you hadnt already been watching.  Neither has been renewed yet and the only way I can see them being renewed is if SyFy couldn't find something else to try out in their return to SyFy Fridays.  

 

But, if you're really curious to see one of the shows, I'd pick Killjoys.  There is an actual plot in that one and a decent attempt to create 3d characters.  

[Mars447]

Dear god, the action scenes in this week's episode of Dark Matter were just atrociously choreographed, directed, and filmed.  So much quick and choppy editing and poor continuity.

[The Mother of The Others]

The quad planets are so close, I'm not saying a standard Super Soaker blast could cross the distance between them, but one of those industrial strength Super Soakers--the rifle sized ones with the huge water tanks--would have a chance.    So if that's the system they've been zipping around in, that's why Lucy has had it easy; greater jaunts might give them Travel IBS (inconvenient bullshit) to strap themselves into for the Deeper Space Is More Harder realism you're looking for.  

 

Though that episode was already pretty hard.    If that other assassin guy was a Six, and he seemed to want to poach the apprentice of another Six, uhhhhhh, that implies the Sixes are blessed with the same kind of political strife within their order that the Leith families are caught up in.   Maybe it's not so much a united voting block of super assassins as just a survival of the fittest invitational.

[SpaceChampion]

Mortal Kombat?

[RedEyedGhost]

are either of these shows worth an end of season binge?... comparable to.... like... let's say... 12 Monkeys?... or Mr Robot?

 

Dark Matter is shit, and I don't know why I'm even still watching it, but there's only one more week :dunno:

 

Killjoys is excellent though.  It's very fun, and they really built up an intriguing corner of the universe over the entire course of the season - a nice slow build.  I'll be very disappointed if it's not renewed.  If you're not worried about spoilers check out Jon AS's fantastic post leading up to the season finale:

 

 

 

[spoiler]I think Khlyen might be a representative of this outside force, actually. Insinuating itself into various systems, then striking and taking over might be the true purpose of the RAC.

 

I'm trying to put together all the things that have been set up and could become important in the finale:

 

-Civil unrest on Westerly; likely to be dealt with harshly, as we learned in episode 2; I doubt the Company will carpet bomb Old Town (for starters Pree would have to find a new bar...), but it's going to be bloody; this of course has essentially already started as of the end of episode 9

 

-potential uprising on Leith by those nationalist militias; bad for everyone as Leith is where all the food (and the future generations of the Nine) grows

 

-speaking of the Nine: control of the Company is tied to family lines and someone in the Quad has a weapon that can wipe out entire families based on genetic markers; Pawter's Qreshi background might actually become important if her family gets wiped out

 

-the RAC is an interstellar organization; its status as neutral law enforcement might actually be a front for a different agenda; there really is a level 6, which might have something to do with whatever "Red 17" is

 

-the fact that the military (presumably a representative of a larger, interstellar government structure which doesn't bother to run individual star systems like the Quad) was trying to learn about Red 17 suggests it is at odds with whatever the highest echelons of the RAC are doing

 

-there is a military program that turns people into sleeper agents who will turn against their closest allies when triggered; one of the scientists working on this sought shelter in the Quad

 

-Dutch is important to whatever plan Khlyen is pursuing; presumably her family background makes her a bit more valuable than your average widowed princess-by-marriage

 

-As has been proven on this thread, Lucy is a TARDIS; which means there's a greater than zero chance that all problems will be solved by someone pointing a sonic screwdriver at them and talking really fast

 

Anything else?[/spoiler]

[Jon AS]

are either of these shows worth an end of season binge?... comparable to.... like... let's say... 12 Monkeys?... or Mr Robot?

 

Haven't seen [i]12 Monkeys[/i], and [i]Mr. Robot[/i] is a completely different animal, so I'm not sure how you'd compare it to either of the two shows.

As RedEyedGhost said, [i]Dark Matter[/i] really isn't worth your time. It's all over the place without ever doing anything interesting with its ideas or developing the world or characters in meaningful ways.

[i]Killjoys[/i] on the other hand is actually very tightly written. There's a case-of-the-week format built into the premise, but those aren't filler: every one is used to establish the world, develop the characters and  set up plot points for the finale, where everything comes together.

 

The quad planets are so close, I'm not saying a standard Super Soaker blast could cross the distance between them, but one of those industrial strength Super Soakers--the rifle sized ones with the huge water tanks--would have a chance.

 

It's one planet and its three moons, actually.

[felice]

Dark Matter was kind of enjoyable for the right reasons this week.

 

Yeah, one of the better episodes. I'd care more about the ending if we knew anything about the planet, though - was it populated by billions, or a tiny research outpost on a barren rock? They stole an extremely powerful device of unknown purpose from someone, and gave it to one someone else instead of a different someone else who also wanted it. Woohoo.
 

Killjoys delivered.
(though really, the super secret base is called "Red 17" because there's a big, red 17 painted on its walls?)

 

Or possibly the other way round? Ie it had a big red 17 painted on its walls because it's called Red 17.
 

What is Khlyen really planning? Supporting the coup seemed more like an opportunistic thing to do, rather than an endgame, and Red 17/Level Six seems a bit too big a project to just use it to take over the Quad. And of course this is clearly not what Khlyen wants Dutch for. The thing I don't get is that he still seems to think he can get her willing cooperation somehow, when Dutch has comprehensively proven that not only will she not kill on command, she'll put herself at risk to help others (which makes her terrible at the whole "take no sides" part of being a Killjoy) and is determined to oppose him. Interestingly she doesn't appear to be completely off-limits to other Level Six operatives, so Khlyen might actually be answerable to someone else.

Taking over the Quad probably isn't the endgame, but I think it is part of Level Six's main plan. Khlyen was pretty desperate to get that genetic bomb back, which doesn't fit opportunistic. I don't think he's rational about Dutch; she's his defacto daughter (and I wouldn't rule out an Empire Strikes Back twist, for that matter) and I suspect she means more to him than loyalty to Level Six, if push comes to shove. And of course we don't know what Khlyen's goal really is, so it might be something Dutch would strongly approve of, even if she hates his methods.
 

The last episode seemed to be making the point that, if you have a ship capable of interstellar travel, travelling between systems is at least not a huge deal. It was implied that simply taking off in Lucy without further preparations was definitely an option.

Yes, Lucy clearly can do interstellar. Not a trivial option, though. It seems plausible that Lucy would routinely carry enough supplies to last for a trip that takes several weeks at near-light. (I was wrong about her ladders, though - they go straight up into the bridge - hatches in the side walls. So not sure where the corridors go; they do extend past the bedroom doors. Bathrooms?)

[Jon AS]

Yeah, one of the better episodes. I'd care more about the ending if we knew anything about the planet, though - was it populated by billions, or a tiny research outpost on a barren rock? They stole an extremely powerful device of unknown purpose from someone, and gave it to one someone else instead of a different someone else who also wanted it. Woohoo.

 

I think the people on the planet were supposed to be working for the same company as the one that gave them the original mission, but as they're all completely interchangeable and we have no idea how they relate to each other or the universe at large it's meaningless.

The planet destruction was so random, no setup done for this to have any impact. Which reminds me: is it just that I'm always looking away at the wrong moment or does this show seriously underuse establishing shots? It's not a big thing, but it certainly contributes to the lack of a sense of place that pervades the entire series.

 

Or possibly the other way round? Ie it had a big red 17 painted on its walls because it's called Red 17.

 

That would be slightly better, but the simple fact that they went out of their way to put the logo on the base in font size big enough to be readable from orbit is still pretty damn funny.

 

Taking over the Quad probably isn't the endgame, but I think it is part of Level Six's main plan. Khlyen was pretty desperate to get that genetic bomb back, which doesn't fit opportunistic. I don't think he's rational about Dutch; she's his defacto daughter (and I wouldn't rule out an Empire Strikes Back twist, for that matter) and I suspect she means more to him than loyalty to Level Six, if push comes to shove. And of course we don't know what Khlyen's goal really is, so it might be something Dutch would strongly approve of, even if she hates his methods.

 

Maybe opportunistic wasn't the right word, but clearly once the plan for the coup had been agreed upon Khlyen would be determined to get his hands on the weapon (did Dutch and John bother to pick that thing up, btw, or was it just left lying there?) even if it's just a means to an end.

I'm really curious to learn if events would have unfolded as they did if John hadn't accepted that level 5 warrant, or if the only difference was that Khlyen revealed himself to Dutch.

 

 

Yes, Lucy clearly can do interstellar. Not a trivial option, though. It seems plausible that Lucy would routinely carry enough supplies to last for a trip that takes several weeks at near-light. (I was wrong about her ladders, though - they go straight up into the bridge - hatches in the side walls. So not sure where the corridors go; they do extend past the bedroom doors. Bathrooms?)

 

Well, they do have all those nondescript boxes stacked in the cargo hold...

I really think that, given how careful the planning for the show clearly is, they must have a floorplan for the ship that makes sense and serves as the basis for the sets, even if said sets don't quite fit together as intended.

Are the ladders to the bridge the only way to access the upper level? In the first episode Kendry showed up, she and Dutch walked down the corridor towards the doors to the bridge and common room while her guards are making sure the rooms ahead are secure, which doesn't really make sense if they'd first climbed up onto the bridge. Actually there really has to be some kind of lift somewhere, doesn't it?