Red Helm Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Well I'm biased since Jon and Dany are my favorite characters. I love how their arcs are paralleled (making small concessions and sacrifices that go against yourself/your vows/your identity that get increasingly bigger and harder to do, before you eventually snap and do something that changes the trajectory of your story for good [Jon: response to the Pink Letter to personally fight Ramsay and Dany: ripping off her tokar and saving Drogon from the fighting pits). I think it's just a great story that says so much about Jon and who he is and what he values. I think it's really powerful. And I love how it ended too. And everything conveyed by his attempts to make peace with the Watch's ancient, sworn enemies for thousands of years. Even Edd's "What's a god compared to a nice bowl of onion soup?" is brilliant, and the resolution to this in Jon XII... I am truly surprised "Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins" is not iconic in the fandom. And the fear and terror GRRM conveyed in that chapter of the Others utterly decimates Hardhome. Fear plain in the people and a letter from Pyke outdoing a full on battle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I want to share this post from i09 which I think is pretty spot on. This passage in particular resonated with me (especially when I think of how they mishandled the Sparrows): That's absolutely perfect :bowdown: Thanks for sharing :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yes, he said how he would portray Loras differently, like a true warrior, there was a video on youtube about that but I can't find it (where he waves plastic sword). Oh I didn't know. Now I like him even more, and am certain of his forthcoming demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of Cinder Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I want to share this post from i09 which I think is pretty spot on. This passage in particular resonated with me (especially when I think of how they mishandled the Sparrows): This is so good, it is so true, and so very sad. That quote also needs to be framed. I am not going to have enough walls for all the quotes by the end of this! Better call LC Jon Snow, I need to borrow his Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I want to share this post from i09 which I think is pretty spot on. This passage in particular resonated with me (especially when I think of how they mishandled the Sparrows): Wow this is pretty terrific :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Why? It is up there as my favorities too but as far as ADwD discussions I can't find much on it, with more focus on Dany, Tyrion, etc. so I'm curious for your reasoning as to why. You should check out an old thread by Lummel and a few others called 'Learning to Lead' on the re-read sub forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 And everything conveyed by his attempts to make peace with the Watch's ancient, sworn enemies for thousands of years. Even Edd's "What's a god compared to a nice bowl of onion soup?" is brilliant, and the resolution to this in Jon XII... I am truly surprised "Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins" is not iconic in the fandom. And the fear and terror GRRM conveyed in that chapter of the Others utterly decimates Hardhome. Fear plain in the people and a letter from Pyke outdoing a full on battle... Exactly. I think it's noteworthy the decisions Jon makes, and his justifications (mostly false) that he keeps telling himself to make him feel as if he isn't breaking his vows yet. His need to be a "hero", to be honorable and noble and save the innocents. These blind him to where he is unable to see the big picture (preparing the Wall for the battle against the Others) and ultimately leads to his downfall. It's a tragic arc that really gives us insight into Jon's character and who he is and what his goals are. Plus, it's just plain interesting on top of all that. I love hearing about the Wall and the Watch and the preparations they make. It's well written, compelling, complex, logical, and unique, even while falling into some simplistic tropes. GRRM is really good about walking that fine line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Helm Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 You should check out an old thread by Lummel and a few others called 'Learning to Lead' on the re-read sub forum. I've tried them here and there. May have to have another go, though they seem to be purely about the PoV character in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Oh I didn't know. Now I like him even more, and am certain of his forthcoming demise. Same :( This is so good, it is so true, and so very sad. That quote also needs to be framed. I am not going to have enough walls for all the quotes by the end of this! Better call LC Jon Snow, I need to borrow his Wall. At least now there are quotes, for a minute there I was afraid the press would never touch on the show's shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airemyn Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Same. It is good to see another convert. You have stepped into the light brother, and now you must speak the Book Reading Snob oath. Sworn for life to spit on D&D, their apologia and defend the one true talent of ASoIaF. Speak the words, and arise as one of us.I solemnly vow It's Sister by the way 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Jon's ADWD stuff is my favorite of everything in ASOIAF followed only by Bran. That probably explains why I hate the show so much; because I'm most interested in all the stuff at the Wall and beyond and the show seems to only care for the Lannisters and the Game of Thrones. It also explains why I'm so irrationally invested in Kit's interview and Jon's fate on the show and books. Did you see the Nutter interview I posted? Found it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p32xkMZP3Gg Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airemyn Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Same. It is good to see another convert. You have stepped into the light brother, and now you must speak the Book Reading Snob oath. Sworn for life to spit on D&D, their apologia and defend the one true talent of ASoIaF. Speak the words, and arise as one of us.Oops sorry - I posted accidentally before, damn iPhone. Let me start again. Hear my words, and bear witness to my vow, night gathers and now my watch ends..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Helm Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Exactly. I think it's noteworthy the decisions Jon makes, and his justifications (mostly false) that he keeps telling himself to make him feel as if he isn't breaking his vows yet. His need to be a "hero", to be honorable and noble and save the innocents. These blind him to where he is unable to see the big picture (preparing the Wall for the battle against the Others) and ultimately leads to his downfall. It's a tragic arc that really gives us insight into Jon's character and who he is and what his goals are. Plus, it's just plain interesting on top of all that. I love hearing about the Wall and the Watch and the preparations they make. It's well written, compelling, complex, logical, and unique, even while falling into some simplistic tropes. GRRM is really good about walking that fine line. There's even more to it than this, though I would be parroting someone else's interpretation. Even the man who tried (and may have succeeded) to assassinate one of my favorites I can sympathise with (I personally think whilst Marsh's suspicion of the Wildings was exacerbated by the Bridge of Skulls (also understandable) he did largely use it was a pretext to oppose Jon fearing certain consequences from this revolution for the Watch's safety, and the Pink Letter confirmed every single one of those fears). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Helm Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Oops sorry - I posted accidentally before, damn iPhone. Let me start again.Hear my words, and bear witness to my vow, night gathers and now my watch ends.....Good, brother, good... now piss off out of my sight and begin mucking the shit out of the stables, you dirty commoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Right. Messy, complicated, multi-layered. Realistic. But somehow the black/white single source TV show has improved things with Olly the Potato Boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I like Finn. Wish he could have played Book!Loras :( No wonder we didn't see him ever again after his imprisonment, or even get a name drop the last three episodes. Ooh, what do you think the baby extras are for? Euron to eat to show how Evul! he is?? That's true! That was enough to show how miserable, starving, and dehydrated she was... Ugh, where are the Tyrells. That really is bugging me, in case that wasn't obvious already.Another nitpick, where was Pod?And lol, you are probably right about Euron.I really want to give her (and Maisie) the benefit of the doubt because I remember how dumb I was at 18. But they saw some really, really stupid stuff.As a19 year old, I would like to say I don't think I was that dumb at 18. Though, I did know some true idiots at that time: "she's racist against women!" "...you mean sexist?" :lol: Aww I miss Myrcella I :( such a sweet, intelligent girl. And yeah, I know that's why. I was just pointing out why that's the only option, since they didn't write him better or make him more faithful to Book!Loras.Why we got Nellcella instead is beyond me. Certainly not for her acting skills. Oh I didn't know. Now I like him even more, and am certain of his forthcoming demise.Probably something particularly gruesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Helm Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Right. Messy, complicated, multi-layered. Realistic. But somehow the black/white single source TV show has improved things with Olly the Potato Boy. I thought Olly was a human 'tater hybrid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Northern Scholar Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Did you see the Nutter interview I posted? Cheers! Maybe? Can you link it again? Do I even want to see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Right. Messy, complicated, multi-layered. Realistic. But somehow the black/white single source TV show has improved things with Olly the Potato Boy.I don't see anything realistic in GOT, tbh, and I hate that argument. Ramsay could have thrown confetti to Sansa in their wedding night as punishment and it would have been just as real as her decision to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Helm Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Didn't the show arbitrarily say the Tyrells have the 3rd largest army after the Lannisters and Starks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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